2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
Who's Online Now
69 members (36251, Beemer, Adam Edin, anotherscott, andredatele, Beowulf, Bruce In Philly, Boria0, 17 invisible), 678 guests, and 499 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Bad behaviour rewarded
#2924047 12/17/19 06:15 PM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 570
Sibylle Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
OP Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 570
I haven't been practising much, to put it mildly. After all the stress of a job and two businesses, I'm now preparing to move to a different country, selling off my stuff and organising a million and one things. Most days I look up at 11 pm and realise it's now too late to practice.

Which is terrible, considering that I'm selling my piano too and it'll be taken away on Friday. Okay, so I'll get a new one, but I'll be without a piano for nearly two weeks. ARGH.

Today, I stubbornly put my work to one side and went downstairs to practise. Hadn't done any serious work on my Beethoven sonata - No. 25, op. 79 in G major - in weeks, and nothing at all for at least one week. I prepared to be disgusted (the first movement is still shaky, and nowhere near presto).

And it went fairly well. At a decent tempo - not presto yet, but getting there - the difficult passages almost without a hiccup, some things that usually make me tear my hair working flawlessly. Now, I know some people say a rest can do you good, but this was downright neglect.

How am I supposed to feel bad about myself if my bad behaviour is being rewarded?? grin

Last edited by Sibylle; 12/17/19 06:16 PM.

Sibylle


"Not a shred of evidence exists in favour of the idea that life is serious." -Brendan Gill
Re: Bad behaviour rewarded
Sibylle #2924054 12/17/19 06:29 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,795
Gold Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
Gold Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,795
I have had this happen--the first time I play a piece through after having ignored it for a week or more. But often I can't reproduce it if I then play it a second time.

I think the first time through I'm more relaxed, just playing to see how it goes, and--surprise!--it goes well. Then I try to do it again, but I'm thinking about how well it went the first time, and how I really don't want to screw it up this time through, and maybe I should be doing half-pedal instead, and on and on. And it doesn't go as well.


[Linked Image]
Yamaha C3X
In summer, the song sings itself. --William Carlos Williams

Re: Bad behaviour rewarded
Sibylle #2924147 12/18/19 02:48 AM
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 487
W
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
W
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 487
You forgot you couldn't do it. So you did it.

Sometimes people will tense up when approaching a difficult spot. If you're thinking: here comes the part where I always mess up. Then you will surely mess up because you already told yourself.

Re: Bad behaviour rewarded
Sibylle #2924156 12/18/19 04:13 AM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 747
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 747
The greatest progress comes after leaving a piece alone for some time after a period of serious practice, and then coming back to it. Not bad behaviour, but a necessary learning strategy.

Re: Bad behaviour rewarded
CianistAndPomposer #2924460 12/18/19 05:43 PM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 570
Sibylle Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
OP Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 570
Originally Posted by Stubbie
I have had this happen--the first time I play a piece through after having ignored it for a week or more. But often I can't reproduce it if I then play it a second time.

I think the first time through I'm more relaxed, just playing to see how it goes, and--surprise!--it goes well. Then I try to do it again, but I'm thinking about how well it went the first time, and how I really don't want to screw it up this time through, and maybe I should be doing half-pedal instead, and on and on. And it doesn't go as well.

Good point. The proof will be in the pudding (of practising today, if I menage to get to it).

Originally Posted by wszxbcl
You forgot you couldn't do it. So you did it.

I love this! Makes a lot of sense.

Originally Posted by CianistAndPomposer
The greatest progress comes after leaving a piece alone for some time after a period of serious practice, and then coming back to it. Not bad behaviour, but a necessary learning strategy.

I do get that, but like I said, this was more than "a break", it was an extended negligence that by rights should have deteriorated my playing.
I really like you forum nickname, haha, made me giggle.


Sibylle


"Not a shred of evidence exists in favour of the idea that life is serious." -Brendan Gill
Re: Bad behaviour rewarded
Sibylle #2925288 12/21/19 03:37 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,584
W
5000 Post Club Member
Offline
5000 Post Club Member
W
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,584
There are a few factors

* If you have little time but really want, you have focus and concentration.
* Having not played for some time you are listening better
* Having not heard the piece for some time renews its freshness
* Having not played it for some time lowers your expected speed. You may be playing slower than you did last time yet you accept it as acceptable speed, making it easier to play it better.


[Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image]
Re: Bad behaviour rewarded
wouter79 #2926661 12/25/19 07:57 AM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 570
Sibylle Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
OP Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 570
Originally Posted by wouter79
There are a few factors

* If you have little time but really want, you have focus and concentration.
* Having not played for some time you are listening better
* Having not heard the piece for some time renews its freshness
* Having not played it for some time lowers your expected speed. You may be playing slower than you did last time yet you accept it as acceptable speed, making it easier to play it better.

These might definitely have played a role smile


Sibylle


"Not a shred of evidence exists in favour of the idea that life is serious." -Brendan Gill
Re: Bad behaviour rewarded
wouter79 #2927612 12/28/19 01:43 PM
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 54
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 54
Originally Posted by wouter79

* Having not heard the piece for some time renews its freshness


To me, this is the most exciting factor (though not the only possible explanation, as you've pointed out). A good pianist doesn't play with his hands, but with his heart, and you know what they say about what absence does to the heart.

By the way, Sibylle, I hope you can find more time to practise in the near future. I get rather frustrated when my workload doesn't let me spend quality time with my instrument. smirk

Re: Bad behaviour rewarded
Sibylle #2928505 12/30/19 11:42 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 132
D
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
D
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 132
While you are not thinking about the piece, your unconscious mind has been playing it/working on it. Sometimes it's good to give it a rest. I can sometimes get the same effect by playing through a piece extremely slowly, ignoring the rhythms and just capturing the tones. I get new ideas.

Re: Bad behaviour rewarded
Calavera #2929400 01/02/20 12:42 PM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 570
Sibylle Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
OP Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 570
Originally Posted by Calavera

To me, this is the most exciting factor (though not the only possible explanation, as you've pointed out). A good pianist doesn't play with his hands, but with his heart, and you know what they say about what absence does to the heart.

By the way, Sibylle, I hope you can find more time to practise in the near future. I get rather frustrated when my workload doesn't let me spend quality time with my instrument. smirk

I've just given up my daytime job and moved to Croatia to be a freelancer grin Mind you, I'll still have to work a lot - I need to live on my businesses now, after all - but the 16+ hour days including weekends working a full-time job and two part-time businesses are in the past. My new Förster piano will be delivered on Saturday, and by the end of 2020 I hope to be a lot less ashamed of my much-declined abilities 3hearts


Sibylle


"Not a shred of evidence exists in favour of the idea that life is serious." -Brendan Gill
Re: Bad behaviour rewarded
Sibylle #2929833 01/03/20 03:47 PM
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 54
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 54
Originally Posted by Sibylle
I've just given up my daytime job and moved to Croatia to be a freelancer grin Mind you, I'll still have to work a lot - I need to live on my businesses now, after all - but the 16+ hour days including weekends working a full-time job and two part-time businesses are in the past. My new Förster piano will be delivered on Saturday, and by the end of 2020 I hope to be a lot less ashamed of my much-declined abilities 3hearts


Good to hear! Enjoy. cool

Re: Bad behaviour rewarded
wszxbcl #2929876 01/03/20 05:40 PM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,201
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,201
Originally Posted by wszxbcl
You forgot you couldn't do it. So you did it.

Wonderful analysis. I'm sure there's a great deal of truth to it!


SRF
Re: Bad behaviour rewarded
Sibylle #2929884 01/03/20 05:59 PM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,201
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,201
Originally Posted by Sibylle
I've just given up my daytime job and moved to Croatia to be a freelancer grin

Wow, you certainly don't resort to half measures in your life decisions! I am blown away by your intrepidness.

What you said, and the way you said it, made me immediately think of a poem by one of my favorite English poets, Philip Larkin:

Poetry Of Departures

Sometimes you hear, fifth-hand,
As epitaph:
He chucked up everything
And just cleared off,
And always the voice will sound
Certain you approve
This audacious, purifying,
Elemental move.

And they are right, I think. . . .


Much more reckless than your decision, I'm sure, but you certainly seem no less "audacious"!


SRF
Re: Bad behaviour rewarded
Sibylle #2930161 01/04/20 02:06 PM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 570
Sibylle Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
OP Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 570
I adore Larkin smile Thank you for this!

D'you know, a lot of people call me stark raving bonkers for doing this, and they may be right grin But I seriously can't afford the hobby of renting in Ireland anymore, and so I thought, I don't have kids in school or anything else that binds me here, I just started learning Croatian just for the heck of it, it's a EU country with gorgeous nature, good weather, and a low crime rate... why don't I just go for a year and see how it goes? And so far, I can say it was definitely the right move.

I may yet go broke, haha, but I can always go back and then get another job. Life's too short not to take a few calculated risks.

Last edited by Sibylle; 01/04/20 02:07 PM.

Sibylle


"Not a shred of evidence exists in favour of the idea that life is serious." -Brendan Gill
Re: Bad behaviour rewarded
Sibylle #2930185 01/04/20 03:24 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 2,621
L
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
L
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 2,621
Beautiful piano. Congratulations! I agree, set sail, travel, live in different places.

I like Larkin’s This Be The Verse but I’m not quoting it here, lol.

Re: Bad behaviour rewarded
Sibylle #2930253 01/04/20 06:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 3,487
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 3,487
A real courageous and bold move. Good luck and enjoy it all.



[Linked Image]
Re: Bad behaviour rewarded
Sibylle #2931046 01/06/20 08:01 PM
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 832
Z
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Z
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 832
My take is that also perhaps there is lower expectations because you haven't played it in a while, so you just sit down and think "ah well this won't be very good" and you're relaxed and it goes better than expected - whereas when you're putting pressure on yourself for it to be good, perhaps that results in it not being so good?

I hope you know what I mean. I know what I mean.

Re: Bad behaviour rewarded
Sibylle #2931875 01/09/20 08:59 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 661
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 661
I don't see any bad behavior here, aside from attempting to be melodramatic. smile

A lot of practicing, A LOT of practicing, is done away from the instrument. Your brain needs to absorb what you practiced after you have practiced. My son's clarinet teacher and I talk about this frequently. He even has studies he can cite that this is very true, and not just about music, rather about anything that our brains learn. (I can't cite them at the moment, but they are out there.)

How many times do we, especially as children, NOT practice for a lesson yet the teacher is convinced we practiced non-stop? It happens to all of us.

I often leave challenging music after being frustrated, just to come back three days later and it's like I had been practicing it for months! Well, my hard practice in the days prior were being absorbed during the days off.

This is also one reason I am comfortable telling students that if you are having an "off" day which isn't going well or you really, really don't feel like practicing, the don't practice that day. (I can hear all the gasps now!) I am fine saying this because your brain is still practicing, and the worst time to practice is when you don't feel like it (within reason and context, of course).

I also used to "require" my students to take one day a week off away from the piano. Don't even touch it unless you are playing things that are not assigned (old music, fun songs, sight-read something, but not the assigned music). The students old enough to articulate their thoughts to me would tell me that taking a day off was like practicing for three more days.


I do music stuffs
Yep, I have a YouTube channel!
Charles Walter 1500 in semi-polish ebony [2017]
Re: Bad behaviour rewarded
SonatainfSharp #2932371 01/10/20 03:52 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 471
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 471
Originally Posted by SonatainfSharp

How many times do we, especially as children, NOT practice for a lesson yet the teacher is convinced we practiced non-stop? It happens to all of us.


What does that say about the teacher, if they can't tell the difference!? wink


Moderated by  Brendan, Kreisler 

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
(ad) SWEETWATER Cyber Sale
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Beginner looking for purchase advice
by savagekeys - 12/05/20 11:21 AM
Fazioli soundboards
by Withindale - 12/05/20 10:08 AM
Practice and resting
by Ubu - 12/05/20 05:25 AM
Strange phenomena....
by piano_primo - 12/05/20 12:55 AM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics203,279
Posts3,030,850
Members99,491
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2020 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4