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Some related discussions (key/action pictures etc.):
http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2734488/all/naked-pics-of-grandtouch-action.html
http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2688852/mp11-grand-feel-key-and-pivot-lengths.html
http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/1761142/1.html
http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2711168/kawai-novus-nv10-hands-on.html
http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/1760698.html
http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2337383/Roland_PHA_vs_lightweight_acti.html

Yes! you're right

I should be using this pict
(the tip of the ruler has extra 0.5-0.6mm)

Source
Gallery

The heavy resistance found at he back of the Casio PX S1000 keys, does it proportionally effect the play all along the key from the back to the middle to front of the key? Thus requiring more effort to play than say a Kawai ES110

Kawai ES100 = 21cm ?
Kawai ES110 = 20 cm?

Found this on another forum ("keyboard corner")

I think something like that, ES110 maybe even few milimeters less, about 19,5 cm. They're different actions. Just google for the side view photos.
ES100 AHA-IV http://basement-store.pl/tomek/imgAHAIVFactionlabels-1473439537197.png
ES110 RH-C http://www.muzykuj.com/ufiles/image/Kawai/es110_1_1074.jpg

In ES100, pivot point is farther in back of the key.

There are recent posts in that thread that indicate the pivot points were not directly measured; the guy used extrapolation instead (triangulation between key pressed and in rest, if I understood it right). So some values may not be accurate.

No. The shorter the lever, the lower the leverage as you move in towards the fallboard. It's the difference in leverage across the playable area that's relevant.

Yes, I pointed this out to the thread’s OP also (while still praising his efforts to collate objectively comparable data.

The fact that this test resulted in different key pivot lengths for the Kawai ES8 and MP7SE, despite both instruments using exactly the same RHIII keyboard action, suggestions the measuring method may not be 100% reliable.

Kind regards,
James
x

There's also a different measurement for the Roland FP90 and RD2000 even though they use the same action.

I should say that the difference is already apparent by mid-key on some actions. At the front of the key it doesn't matter.

True. But even when the middle of the key is used, the lower leverage results in a corresponding increased audio response, so . . . .it doesn't matter!

Aren't y'all lucky to have someone with such indisputable logic?

Yeah. You are way too nice. I would disregard that chart all together.

Altogether, even the downweights and the up weights?

This is not only a digital piano thing. Quite a lot of acoustic pianos (including some at my college) are stiff to play near the fallboard.

So it's not bad practice to get used to pianos like this, rather than avoiding them.

This can definitely be the case for uprights. Most grands I've seen have fairly long pivot lengths (in comparison to digital actions) so I imagine it's less of an issue (and more of a full key downweight/friction issue).

I agree it's good practice to get used to difficult actions, IF one of your goals is to have transferable skills. You'll find that some pianists here have no interest/intention of ever playing publicly or on a piano other than their own, so for them there's little incentive/value in acclimating to non-ideal conditions.

That's true - people have different priorities and it's fine.

I don't agree when people are implying such pianos have a "flaw" (i.e. something experienced negatively in a universal way for all players).

I often play pianos (both acoustic and digital) with stiff keys near the fallboard. I just adapt to apply more weight when playing near the fallboard. Personally, I don't see this as a particularly bad thing and enjoy practicing on different actions.

In some digitals, playing black keys is very uncofortable, for instance try Chopin op 66 in a Kawai with RH action or in a low end Privia... specially in fast sections dynamics and control of playing becomes much harder than it should.

In my opinion it is a flaw since in any video or brochure by the manufacturers they say things like "the weight / feel matches the weight / feel of a grand piano".

Personally i do see it as a bad thing, and just bad, cheap, or space saving production.

My yamaha cp33 really tends to mess up my playing when i need to play near the fallboard, where my yamaha u3 does not, it's action is miles ahead of the cp33 to me. (And i even modified the cp33, reduced the weight of the hammers, so originally the problem was even worse.)

Then again i thought myself how to play, never had a lesson.

I find short pivots frustrating. I want to be able to hear the pieces I play played how I like to hear them.

For example in Schumann's Von Fremden Ländern und Menschen in the second measure even with a long pivot I still find a couple of notes hard to control how I would like. This is not exactly a difficult piece.

The right hand starts with the fifth finger on F#5 and this is held while playing F#4 and then shortly after E5 and then D5 are played. The E5 and D5 are inevitably played near the fallboard (between 2 and 3 cm away) and on my MP11SE I still find that getting these two notes to sound how I want is hard. The MP11SE has a pivot length of 24 cm compared to say many Casio models of 18cm or less. Playing with the desired regulation on the MP11SE is a lot easier than on the Casio's but it still requires a sensitivity of touch that I don't yet have.

Why make myself listen to harsh sounds or ghost notes unnecessarily when practising pieces that have patterns like this. Practising is a whole lot more pleasant when you can produce something close to the sound you want.

I suppose over many years with the necessary practise I will gain enough control that I could deal with this scenario more easily. But I'm impatient and I can't see learning on a keyboard with a longer pivot is going to harm my technique.

Whether or not you play close to the fall board should be determined by what music you are playing, not the piano you are playing. When you are playing primarily on the black keys, hands close to the fall board is proper technique.

Key pivot length is a major consideration, but not the only one that determines the responsiveness of the action for this. Acoustic uprights of reasonable quality have never been a problem for me in this regard.