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Re: Using Easy Piano Tuner
That Guy #2882774 08/23/19 02:04 PM
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I find the functions of changing the weight of the intervals and increasing-decreasing the stretching of the ends of the range intriguing. I consider these features necessary for customization. Thanks for the answer!

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Re: Using Easy Piano Tuner
That Guy #2929465 01/02/20 05:06 PM
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These improvements in the new version are just WOWW!

Re: Using Easy Piano Tuner
That Guy #2929481 01/02/20 05:46 PM
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I agree! thumb wow


"That Tuning Guy"
Scott Kerns
Lincoln, NE
www.thattuningguy.com
Re: Using Easy Piano Tuner
That Guy #2929546 01/02/20 08:48 PM
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Thank you. The new weight settings are still very much in beta testing. And the pre-loaded styles are experimental placeholders...there's a rationale behind their weights, but not much science yet. I'm interested to hear what people think after playing around with it a bit. I suspect most will just find it interesting to look at the intervals graphs, but if anybody creates a custom style they like on pianos I'd love to hear about it.


Anthony Willey, RPT
PianoMeter
Willey Piano Tuning
Re: Using Easy Piano Tuner
AWilley #2929556 01/02/20 09:25 PM
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Hi Anthony, I'm wondering how the weights are determined. Since they don't add up to 100, they're obviously not percentages. Do they represent some other ratio when doing a custom weighted tuning?

I figured out and liked the graphs. Looking forward to taking this new beta release out for a spin!

Best wishes for much success as you develop Pianometer!

Brent Musgrave


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Re: Using Easy Piano Tuner
That Guy #2929577 01/02/20 10:06 PM
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Brent,
No, the weights don't add up to anything special. All that matters is their proportions to each other. If you reduced each weight by 50% of its original value the result would be the same.
The weights function is to tell the algorithm the relative importance of each interval in the tuning calculation. It might be helpful to think of the weights as the inverse of a target beat rate for an interval. That's what I did years ago when I was choosing the default weights. But it's changed a bit since then, and if you play with the numbers you'll be disappointed to find that they don't align exactly with theoretical target beat rates. But the general principle is there. Fourths beat faster than Fifths, which beat faster than Octaves, which beat faster than Twelfths. So the values of the weights increase in that order, inverse to the decreasing beat rates. Sorry, I'm probably not explaining that very well.


Anthony Willey, RPT
PianoMeter
Willey Piano Tuning
Re: Using Easy Piano Tuner
That Guy #2929667 01/03/20 07:46 AM
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It is possible that detailed guidance is now needed.

Re: Using Easy Piano Tuner
That Guy #2929702 01/03/20 10:01 AM
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Using PianoMeter is for me a very enjoyable experience and these new functions add to the pleasure.
thanks Anthony
Happy New Year!
Ian


I'm all keyed up
2016 Blüthner Model A
Re: Using Easy Piano Tuner
That Guy #2960201 03/25/20 05:50 AM
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Lately, I have been playing fifths, fourths and thirds when tuning. I do this in the entire range (except for the highest octave). The tuner is in step mode switching notes. This way I get an amazing setting. I get the throttle beat change in thirds is very smooth. Amazing! There is no 5: 4 ratio chart in the settings for the weight of the intervals. Will it be added in the future?

Re: Using Easy Piano Tuner
Scherbakov Alex #2960267 03/25/20 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Scherbakov Alex
Lately, I have been playing fifths, fourths and thirds when tuning. I do this in the entire range (except for the highest octave). The tuner is in step mode switching notes. This way I get an amazing setting. I get the throttle beat change in thirds is very smooth. Amazing! There is no 5: 4 ratio chart in the settings for the weight of the intervals. Will it be added in the future?

I don't understand your method. Are you using PianoMeter as it was designed then as you progress altering the note tuning as if you were using pure aural tuning?
Ian


I'm all keyed up
2016 Blüthner Model A
Re: Using Easy Piano Tuner
Scherbakov Alex #2960457 03/25/20 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Scherbakov Alex
Lately, I have been playing fifths, fourths and thirds when tuning. I do this in the entire range (except for the highest octave). The tuner is in step mode switching notes. This way I get an amazing setting. I get the throttle beat change in thirds is very smooth. Amazing! There is no 5: 4 ratio chart in the settings for the weight of the intervals. Will it be added in the future?

I don't quite understand your process. On the "5:4 ratio chart", are you asking about a special chart that would show the ratio of 5ths beatrates vs 4ths beatrates, or are you asking about an addition to the current chart showing the beat rates of Major 3rd intervals (5:4 partials)? If the latter, I used to have a small hidden constraint on Major (5:4) and Minor (6:5) third beat rates, but I got rid of it because it wasn't doing much and it wasn't very useful for controlling the tuning with the minimization algorithm I use.


Anthony Willey, RPT
PianoMeter
Willey Piano Tuning
Re: Using Easy Piano Tuner
That Guy #2960561 03/26/20 07:02 AM
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Wow! Today I received an update and the Russian language appeared in the names of the intervals! Pleasantly!
Yes, I meant the frequency of the beats. Maybe a 5:4 schedule could be useful just for information. And he may not have weight. Just to keep track of the smoothness of the beats in thirds. I don't know.
I try to configure as follows. The program listens for example note E3. I add A2, then B2 and then C3 .. In doing so, I adjust E3 (and so on up to chromatism). The tuner always has tuning mode tuning curve. Maybe this changes the weight of the overtones. Maybe this method allows you to specify the frequency of the overtones. But in this case, there are fewer notes in which the overtones disperse in different directions on the phase display. The graph of inharmoniousness (subjectively) is smoother. And the setting comes out beautiful. The instrument sounds very solid. Strangeness in entwined strings is minimized. I love to play such an instrument.

Last edited by Scherbakov Alex; 03/26/20 07:06 AM.
Re: Using Easy Piano Tuner
That Guy #2969960 04/22/20 02:30 AM
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How precise does the overpull function work for you? So far I do this part by feeling. Now I have to decide wether to by the pro-version or not, because the price increases next month. ;-)


excuse my bad english, I'm not native. Corrections are always welcome!
Re: Using Easy Piano Tuner
That Guy #2969963 04/22/20 02:40 AM
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Another point: I am beta-tester and got an update several weeks ago in terms of better recognizing the right oktave in auto-mode. But in my perception the tone isn't detected at all more often now...


excuse my bad english, I'm not native. Corrections are always welcome!
Re: Using Easy Piano Tuner
Andymania #2969981 04/22/20 04:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Andymania
wether to by the pro-version or not
...to buy... ;-)


excuse my bad english, I'm not native. Corrections are always welcome!
Re: Using Easy Piano Tuner
AWilley #2969991 04/22/20 05:41 AM
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Originally Posted by AWilley
A compromise I am considering is to allow the needle to disappear when the note is within +/- 10 cents of being in tune.

Presumably this would be an option? I find that as I progress towards the upper octave the phase display has difficulty in settling and jumps a bit between backwards and forwards rotation before settling (if it ever does settle before the note decays). This is I presume because there are fewer partials to use and more scatter between its sample readings, but whatever the cause the slower reacting needle is easier to read in these conditions i.e. I don't have to interpret the overall phase direction changes to guess what the average value has been.

And thanks for the great program. Love it :-)

Re: Using Easy Piano Tuner
Andymania #2970126 04/22/20 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Andymania
I am beta-tester and got an update several weeks ago in terms of better recognizing the right oktave in auto-mode. But in my perception the tone isn't detected at all more often now...
Yes, that's the downside. The problem I was fixing was octave jumping...for example you are tuning C3 but during the sustain the partials decay in a way that makes the app detect and jump to C4. The way I fixed that was to restrict the note switching unless an "attack" was detected. That also made it more resilient against persistent noise, like the 60 Hz hum of appliances. But the drawback is that it now needs a clean attack to switch notes automatically. I've found that sometimes if you're having trouble with a note, plucking the string with a fingernail will do the trick. (This also works well for stubborn inharmonicity measurements.) Or play a nearby note and then walk down to the desired pitch chromatically, which uses a different process.

Originally Posted by gwing
Originally Posted by AWilley
A compromise I am considering is to allow the needle to disappear when the note is within +/- 10 cents of being in tune.
Presumably this would be an option?
Yes, if I ever implemented that it would be optional. I've resisted implementing it partially for the reason you mentioned (the phase isn't as helpful in the treble as the needle).


Originally Posted by Andymania
How precise does the overpull function work for you? So far I do this part by feeling.
I'd estimate that it gets you within about 5% of however big a pitch raise you're doing. So if you're doing a 100 cent pitch raise and the overshoot is 40 cents for a certain note, then when you finish the pitch raise and the note has settled it should be within about 5 cents of zero. Note this 5% is anecdotal based on my own tuning, not the result of a rigorous study. In terms of whether the pitch raise function is worth upgrading to Pro, I can't answer that for you. There's nothing wrong with estimating your own overpull targets...I spent years doing that with a different tuning platform. I think it would partially depend on how often you use it. If I were doing more than one pitch raise per week it would be worth it for me. If I were just maintaining my own piano I wouldn't bother.


Anthony Willey, RPT
PianoMeter
Willey Piano Tuning
Re: Using Easy Piano Tuner
AWilley #2970149 04/22/20 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by AWilley
The way I fixed that was to restrict the note switching unless an "attack" was detected.

I suspected something like that. I would prefer the formerly sensitivity of this function. It was very reliable. In terms of usability here is a suggestion: in the bottom window, where the keyboard is shown, coul be areas for oktaves - more easy to hit than a single key. If a wrong oktave has been detected, correction should be easy and quick. Also all same tones could be a little bit highlightened. Example: A3 is played, A5 is detected. In the graphic all As are longer and colored to hit them easy.

I could make a graphic, if you like.

Last edited by Andymania; 04/22/20 01:37 PM.

excuse my bad english, I'm not native. Corrections are always welcome!
Re: Using Easy Piano Tuner
Andymania #2970172 04/22/20 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Andymania
here is a suggestion: in the bottom window, where the keyboard is shown, could be areas for oktaves - more easy to hit than a single key. If a wrong oktave has been detected, correction should be easy and quick.
Just double checking...it sounds like you're asking for a one-tap solution for jumping by octaves. Are you aware this already exists in the (normally invisible) blue +/-12 buttons?
[Linked Image]

Re: note switching, I'll keep this feedback in mind as I continue to think about ways to make the note switching work better. But consider these 3 types of errors:
1. The note doesn't switch when it should.
2. The note switches when it should not.
3. The note continues switching to the wrong note after you manually correct it.
In my mind error #2 is more serious than #1 because there's the potential of you not noticing an octave jump and actually tuning a note wrong. (When you're in the zone it's easy to to overlook the difference between the app saying C3 vs C4.) And I would think that error #3 is more frustrating than error #1...it's the type of thing that can make people want to throw the stupid phone at the wall. Granted I can think of other ways to fix error #3 like a timeout on auto note switching after a manual switch, but that's a bit more complicated than the current change which largely reduces errors #2 and #3 at the expense of increasing #1.


Anthony Willey, RPT
PianoMeter
Willey Piano Tuning
Re: Using Easy Piano Tuner
AWilley #2970218 04/22/20 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by AWilley
Are you aware this already exists in the (normally invisible) blue +/-12 buttons?
[Linked Image]

Yes, but I use it seldom. Maybe, because I see the fault in another window. Corrections schould be done directly, where you see it's result - like handwriting with a pen. That's intuitive.

Originally Posted by AWilley
1. The note doesn't switch when it should.

In my perception the most annoying fault. It's, what the new function does.

Originally Posted by AWilley
2. The note switches when it should not.

I had it seldom.

Originally Posted by AWilley
Granted I can think of other ways to fix error #3 like a timeout on auto note switching after a manual switch

Maybe you could give this one note a higer rating after manual switch. So for this piano the Software does assign this special partial-template to a special note more than to other oktaves. This would fix all three problems.


excuse my bad english, I'm not native. Corrections are always welcome!
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