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Beginner - Kawai K600 or Sauter Ragazza 116
#2929188 01/01/20 11:56 PM
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Hi everyone, I’m new here. I have been surfing this forums for a few days. You guys have been so helpful and professional. Because I know nothing about piano, I better seek for more professional advices from you guys. smile

My daughter is 5 years old now, and I think it’s time for her to learn piano now. I went to a piano shop in Sydney to check out the Kawai and Yamaha pianos, and I think I prefer the sound of Kawai. And decided to purchase the K600. And then I went back to the same shop again for more advice, another sales person showed me a Sauter Regazza 116, and I really like the sound of a German piano. But the price is double.

I don’t know how long my daughter will use the piano. If she is really good, definitely she will need a grand piano, but if she is not that great, probably we want a piano which can last for a very long time.

Any suggestions for these two pianos? Thanks very much in advance smile

Last edited by Amber Liv; 01/01/20 11:58 PM. Reason: Add bit more info
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Re: Beginner - Kawai K600 or Sauter Ragazza 116
Amber Liv #2929214 01/02/20 02:14 AM
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Sauter 116 size pianos have a lovely tone and action ,quite a big tone for a smaller piano.
Well the Kawai being taller is also very nice .The Kawai should last (if new)50 plus
years .The Sauter even longer probably. I think.only the 122 and 130 size Sauter's
have the enhanced repetition action that simulates a grand action.(although not
exactly the same as a grand )The smaller models will have a regular action.(all Renner
though)
Both choices sound very nice ,although the Sauter will.be more expensive.
Best Wishes !

Last edited by Lady Bird; 01/02/20 02:18 AM. Reason: Missing word
Re: Beginner - Kawai K600 or Sauter Ragazza 116
Amber Liv #2929218 01/02/20 03:00 AM
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Welcome to the forums.

Actually, a Kawai K-500 (if one is available) would be more than sufficient to meet your daughter's needs until she is ready for a grand piano. There is no reason why a well-maintained K-500 shouldn't last at least 40-50 years. The same applies to the K-600. The Millenium III action is very responsive, and the practice (mute) pedal is a definite plus. If the choice is between a 53" K-600 and 48" Sauter at twice the cost, the Kawai would make the most sense at this point in time. Also, five years old may be a bit too young for your daughter to start learning piano. Has she expressed interest in taking lessons?


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Re: Beginner - Kawai K600 or Sauter Ragazza 116
Lady Bird #2929228 01/02/20 04:42 AM
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Hi Lady Bird, thanks for your reply. I really like the sound of the Sauter, but since it’s quite a small size, would it be ok to use through to the advanced level? (Though it will take many years for my daughter to be at that level. Lol).
The other thing is the keys on a Kawai piano are softer then Sauter. The salesman mentioned it’s because some components are made of carbon fibre, but many people think that’s just plastic. And I do saw glue around the parts made with carbon fibre. Not sure if this would shortened the use life of this piano.
Both pianos are new, but not sure if it’s worth to pay double the money to get a Sauter (and the 116 seems like just an entry level model?)

Re: Beginner - Kawai K600 or Sauter Ragazza 116
Carey #2929236 01/02/20 05:25 AM
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Hi Carey, thanks for your advice. I was originally checking the K300 and K400. But when the salesman played K600, the sound is much more powerful and nicer. He didn’t show me any K500, so I couldn’t compare it with K600. The second time when I visited the store, they showed me the Sauter, and the sound is deeper and softer, compare with Japanese piano’s bright tune. But not sure if it’s worth to pay twice of the money.

Do you think 5 years old is a bit too young? She didn’t say anything, it’s because I saw a lot of kids play really well when they are just 6, that’s why I thought she should start from 5.

Re: Beginner - Kawai K600 or Sauter Ragazza 116
Amber Liv #2929252 01/02/20 06:58 AM
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Since you don't play and she will be the only one who will play, it seems logical to go with a reasonably priced piano, in case she does not want to continue. If she continues, the extra money is saved for upgrading to a grand in the future.

In this regard I would suggest you to go with the Kawai.
You might also get a better resale value.

Re: Beginner - Kawai K600 or Sauter Ragazza 116
Amber Liv #2929258 01/02/20 07:25 AM
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Both of these pianos are good and actually much better than anything you need at the moment. I think you may find the K500 is pretty much the same as the k600 for tone and cheaper, both are richer than the smaller models. FWIW all children are different but they are developing and changing fast at those ages. There were things my daughter was incapable of learning at 5 but came easily at 6. She didn’t start playing piano until 8 even though her mother taught piano.

Re: Beginner - Kawai K600 or Sauter Ragazza 116
Amber Liv #2929260 01/02/20 07:47 AM
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Amber
My opinion and advice:The age a child starts piano should depend on many factors including whether the child can pay attention during lessons, sit still, and is willing to practice s few minutes per day. Most teachers will expect you to attend lessons so that you understand what needs to be practiced. Your teacher may decide she needs to wait.

If she starts lessons, I would urge you not to compare how she is doing in one year to other children, but is at her own pace. The important thing is that she enjoy the lessons and starts learning slowly. A love of music is the best thing that you can give to her. Listen to music at home; move/dance to music, attend a concert if she will sit still and be quiet. See what interest in music she has: encourage any interest but also recognize that she may be interested in something else.

Re: Beginner - Kawai K600 or Sauter Ragazza 116
Amber Liv #2929264 01/02/20 08:00 AM
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Amber, start lessons yourself and buy the Sauter. 😉

Rich


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Anton Rubinstein said about the piano: "You think it is one instrument? It is a hundred instruments!"
Re: Beginner - Kawai K600 or Sauter Ragazza 116
Hakki #2929272 01/02/20 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Hakki
Since you don't play and she will be the only one who will play, it seems logical to go with a reasonably priced piano, in case she does not want to continue. If she continues, the extra money is saved for upgrading to a grand in the future.

In this regard I would suggest you to go with the Kawai.
You might also get a better resale value.


Hi Hakki, thanks for your suggestion. Actually I will be learning and playing with the piano as well. I have learned piano for two years before when I was a kid. I gave up due to I went to a boarding school when I was really young. Now I wish I can pick it up and learn with my daughter smile

Re: Beginner - Kawai K600 or Sauter Ragazza 116
Amber Liv #2929276 01/02/20 08:35 AM
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Either of these pianos is way more than enough for a 5 year old beginner. Agreed especially with gwing and dogperson’s comments.


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Re: Beginner - Kawai K600 or Sauter Ragazza 116
gwing #2929277 01/02/20 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by gwing
Both of these pianos are good and actually much better than anything you need at the moment. I think you may find the K500 is pretty much the same as the k600 for tone and cheaper, both are richer than the smaller models. FWIW all children are different but they are developing and changing fast at those ages. There were things my daughter was incapable of learning at 5 but came easily at 6. She didn’t start playing piano until 8 even though her mother taught piano.


Hi Gwing, how’s your daughter doing now? I bet she would be good at playing piano smile
Probably I will take my daughter for a few trial lessons with different teachers, and she can pick one by herself. See how it goes smile

Re: Beginner - Kawai K600 or Sauter Ragazza 116
dogperson #2929278 01/02/20 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by dogperson
Amber
My opinion and advice:The age a child starts piano should depend on many factors including whether the child can pay attention during lessons, sit still, and is willing to practice s few minutes per day. Most teachers will expect you to attend lessons so that you understand what needs to be practiced. Your teacher may decide she needs to wait.

If she starts lessons, I would urge you not to compare how she is doing in one year to other children, but is at her own pace. The important thing is that she enjoy the lessons and starts learning slowly. A love of music is the best thing that you can give to her. Listen to music at home; move/dance to music, attend a concert if she will sit still and be quiet. See what interest in music she has: encourage any interest but also recognize that she may be interested in something else.


Hi dogperson, thanks for your thorough advice. I think I may take her to some trial lesson as and she if she is ready and also she can pick one piano teacher that she likes. And I would love to attend every lessons as I really want to learn as well. smile

My daughter loves dancing with music and copying people playing instruments. I just hope learning piano can make her life more colourful not miserable. LOL

Re: Beginner - Kawai K600 or Sauter Ragazza 116
Amber Liv #2929285 01/02/20 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Rich D.
Amber, start lessons yourself and buy the Sauter. 😉

Rich


Haha Rich, that’s what I wanted as well. Learn piano with my daughter! LOL

Re: Beginner - Kawai K600 or Sauter Ragazza 116
dogperson #2929303 01/02/20 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by dogperson
Amber
My opinion and advice:The age a child starts piano should depend on many factors including whether the child can pay attention during lessons, sit still, and is willing to practice s few minutes per day. Most teachers will expect you to attend lessons so that you understand what needs to be practiced. Your teacher may decide she needs to wait.

If she starts lessons, I would urge you not to compare how she is doing in one year to other children, but is at her own pace. The important thing is that she enjoy the lessons and starts learning slowly. A love of music is the best thing that you can give to her. Listen to music at home; move/dance to music, attend a concert if she will sit still and be quiet. See what interest in music she has: encourage any interest but also recognize that she may be interested in something else.





Great post....the heart of the matter.


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Re: Beginner - Kawai K600 or Sauter Ragazza 116
Rich D. #2929310 01/02/20 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Rich D.
Amber, start lessons yourself and buy the Sauter. 😉

Rich


If both you and your daughter are going to take lessons and either piano will certainly see your daughter through the early years of playing and lots of extra time until she needs a grand, buy the piano you want to listen to and play during your practice sessions and her practice sessions. Pianos depreciate. All pianos. Period. If you really enjoy the Sauter more, the additional money you spend on the purchase goes towards the beautiful voice and action during the time you own it. Plus your daughter will benefit by starting on a higher end upright. If she doesn’t stick with piano you still have a gorgeous upright to play. If it were me, and of course it’s not, I’d focus on the here and now rather than worrying about trading up or selling and buying a grand sometime down the road. Again, that’s me. Best Wishes! grin


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Re: Beginner - Kawai K600 or Sauter Ragazza 116
Amber Liv #2929311 01/02/20 10:21 AM
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In the US, many piano dealers offer a guaranteed trade-up of 100% of purchase price if you buy a piano from them and later trade in for a more expensive piano. Many parents, buying a piano for a young student just starting out, buy an inexpensive used upright from a dealer that has serviced the piano so that it is in good condition. Then if the student is progressing, trade up to a more expensive, new piano. Is this an option where you live?

A young student’s progress and success will not be limited in any way by having a K-600 as their piano in any case.


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Re: Beginner - Kawai K600 or Sauter Ragazza 116
Amber Liv #2929340 01/02/20 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Amber Liv
The other thing is the keys on a Kawai piano are softer then Sauter. The salesman mentioned it’s because some components are made of carbon fibre, but many people think that’s just plastic. And I do saw glue around the parts made with carbon fibre. Not sure if this would shortened the use life of this piano.
What do you mean by "softer?" If you mean the tone of the piano is warmer, then that has nothing to do with the carbon fiber action parts. Also - if you do more research you will discover that the carbon fiber parts actually hold up as well or better than wood. So don't worry about what other people might think. They are misinformed.
https://kawaius.com/technology/carbon-fiber-technology/
Quote
Both pianos are new, but not sure if it’s worth to pay double the money to get a Sauter (and the 116 seems like just an entry level model?)
The amount you'd pay for the Sauter would buy you a really nice grand piano . Did you price any of the smaller grands at the dealer?


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Re: Beginner - Kawai K600 or Sauter Ragazza 116
Amber Liv #2929342 01/02/20 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Amber Liv

Do you think 5 years old is a bit too young? She didn’t say anything, it’s because I saw a lot of kids play really well when they are just 6, that’s why I thought she should start from 5.

Every child is different. A couple of trial lessons might give you the answer you need - including the opinion of the teacher(s) as to your daughter's readiness.

Last edited by Carey; 01/02/20 11:48 AM.

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Re: Beginner - Kawai K600 or Sauter Ragazza 116
Carey #2929457 01/02/20 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Carey
Originally Posted by Amber Liv

Do you think 5 years old is a bit too young? She didn’t say anything, it’s because I saw a lot of kids play really well when they are just 6, that’s why I thought she should start from 5.

Every child is different. A couple of trial lessons might give you the answer you need - including the opinion of the teacher(s) as to your daughter's readiness.



My son started learning at 5, and it was the perfect age for him. But as said, everyone is different.



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