2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.9 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

Who's Online Now
26 registered members (danielp11, DionG, Bett, Fer15, Boboulus, Calavera, dng, 5 invisible), 398 guests, and 440 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6
Steinway with new board...still a Steinway? #2928056 12/29/19 09:51 PM
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 19
S
Skiiman1 Offline OP
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
S
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 19
I have an option to purchase a Steinway B with a replaced board (not replaced by Steinway). My friend that owns several Steinways says that if it's not the original board.
..or replaced by Steinway. Then it's not a Steinway.

What are your thoughts?

Piano & Music Gifts & Accessories (570)
Piano accessories and music gift items, digital piano dolly, music theme party goods
Re: Steinway with new board...still a Steinway? [Re: Skiiman1] #2928066 12/29/19 10:24 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 11,728
Rich Galassini Offline
Platinum Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Platinum Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 11,728
Originally Posted by Skiiman1
I have an option to purchase a Steinway B with a replaced board (not replaced by Steinway). My friend that owns several Steinways says that if it's not the original board.
..or replaced by Steinway. Then it's not a Steinway.

What are your thoughts?



Frankly, This all depends on what you mean.

For the past decade or more, if Steinway got in a 1920's model M they would commonly rebuild the belly on the same line as their new pianos. They would make a soundboard from a new M fit the old rim. This would mean that new notches would be made for where the newer rib design would fit. The old ones would be filled. The frame (or the plate) would be filed down to accommodate the newer bass bridge design, etc.

Now, 20 years from now would you have a 2019 Steinway M? No

Would you have a 1920's Steinway M? No

Would you have a better piano than a 1920's M with a custom built board meant for that piano? possibly

Would you have a piano that was not as good as a 1920's M with a custom built board meant for that piano? IMHO, likely

Really it is all about who is performing the work, what kind of care is taken in the production of the board, the bridges, ribbing, and fit to the rim. Then, how does the piano perform? How does it play? Do you love it?

Anything else is marketing. For instance, for years American Steinway dealers have been screaming that a rebuilder who uses a Renner action in a vintage American Steinway was somehow spoiling the piano. Forget that only a couple of decades ago American S&S parts were crappy and they did not provide historic dimensions.

Now, I hear that American Steinways will all have Renner action parts (this was leaked from the factory but I cannot verify it is true).

Bottom line - your friend is buying a marketing line. You should know who did all of the work on the B in question, know the reasoning behind the choices that were made in rebuilding, play the piano, and make a decision based on it's performance.

Good Luck,


Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila, Pa.
(215) 991-0834 direct line
rich@cunninghampiano.com
Subscribe to our YouTube channel for great content every week:
https://www.youtube.com/user/CunninghamPiano
Re: Steinway with new board...still a Steinway? [Re: Skiiman1] #2928069 12/29/19 10:26 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 5,262
terminaldegree Offline
5000 Post Club Member
Offline
5000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 5,262
It either has great tone and sustain or it doesn’t. Whether that comes from the original board, an original that was cosmetically repaired, a replacement from the factory, a custom made one from a rebuilder, or a pre-fab “board in a box” that some rebuilders use.

Players don’t really care about “which parts” are used, we just care about the performance level of the final result.



Pianist, teacher, apprentice technician, internet addict.
Piano Review Editor - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
Re: Steinway with new board...still a Steinway? [Re: Skiiman1] #2928080 12/29/19 11:06 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 708
Seeker Offline
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 708
I concur with Rich Galassini's opinion to which I will add:
- The piano will NOT be exactly the same as what it would have been with a total rebuild by Steinway. I've played two of those in the past year - an older NY "O" and a 20's Hamburg "B" with a ravishingly beautiful fancy veneered case. I thought both pianos were superb. I liked both better than a 10 year old "D" and similar age "B" that I played in small recital halls at two different universities close to where I have my studio.
- Are those rebuilt by Steinway pianos "better" than ones from competent re-builders? I think, not necessarily, just different. Ditto the converse. The NY "O" sounded like a vintage NY "O", not a new one. The Hamburg "B" had, despite its resurrection in NY, a distinctly Hamburg character. It also did not sound like a new "B". I do NOT know exactly what was replaced. Perhaps the original boards were refurbished rather than being replaced. Can't say.
- Are you planning on keeping the "B" for the rest of your piano playing life? If you are, re-sale value doesn't matter, only your personal preference and the amount of money in your wallet. If you are considering re-sale value, I have no data to support a decision one way or the other. If anyone else does, and you can share it with us without giving up competitive advantage, I invite you to do that.


Andrew Kraus, Pianist
Educated Amateur Tuner/Technician
Rockville, MD USA
www.AndrewKraus.com
www.YouTube.com/RockvillePianoGuy
Twitter at @IAmAPianist

1929 Steinert 6'10" (Close copy of New York S&S "B")
Re: Steinway with new board...still a Steinway? [Re: Skiiman1] #2928088 12/30/19 12:00 AM
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 19
S
Skiiman1 Offline OP
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
S
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 19
I appreciate the replies.

What would be the simplest way to determine if it was an original board...and if replaced...if it was a Steinway board replacement?
Can I call Steinway and ask if they supplied a board for a specific piano?

Thank you.

Re: Steinway with new board...still a Steinway? [Re: Skiiman1] #2928144 12/30/19 05:06 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,204
johnstaf Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,204
The only way to get a Steinway replacement is to have them rebuild the piano. They don't sell them separately.

Last edited by johnstaf; 12/30/19 05:06 AM.
Re: Steinway with new board...still a Steinway? [Re: Skiiman1] #2928181 12/30/19 07:53 AM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 318
D
dhull100 Offline
Platinum Subscriber
Full Member
Offline
Platinum Subscriber
Full Member
D
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 318
I agree with the Rich and others above. You and an independent tech can decide. I wouldn’t worry about semantics, but that could be important to you. It’s the quality of repair that counts. Do you like it? It’s an individual instrument that can be judged on its merit and your preference. My B is from the factory; there were others: 5-6 new Bs,100% Steinway, that I didn’t care for as much. i don’t doubt their quality, but just weren’t the one. Doesn’t matter what a friend thinks; they aren’t buying it and living with it.

Last edited by dhull100; 12/30/19 07:57 AM.
Re: Steinway with new board...still a Steinway? [Re: Skiiman1] #2928270 12/30/19 01:09 PM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,899
P
P W Grey Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,899
Skiiman1,

SS has a long history of manipulating people's thinking (i.e. "marketing") to their own advantage. This of course is what "marketing" is all about. Unfortunately, their latest efforts at securing the "Steinway" market border on those used by the Gestapo in Germany during WWII. Specifically, the legal dept sent out a letter to us technicians/rebuilders just over a year ago. Among other stipulations as to what constitutes a SS piano, they specifically requested contact information (name, address, location, etc.) of anyone selling a SS piano "as a Steinway", that did not correspond to their "standards" so that they could pursue legal action against the seller as being in violation of their "trademark". The letter assured us that they would, in fact, pursue any and all legal action available to them in the matter. This is what your friend is referring to. You can decide for yourself as to whether you will comply with their position on the matter.

Pwg

Last edited by P W Grey; 12/30/19 01:10 PM.

Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK0T7_I_nV8
Re: Steinway with new board...still a Steinway? [Re: Skiiman1] #2928304 12/30/19 03:02 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,080
ClsscLib Offline

Unobtanium Supporter until Jun 020 2020
3000 Post Club Member
Offline

Unobtanium Supporter until Jun 020 2020
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,080
I have a 1977 Steinway that was completely rebuilt by PianoCraft in 2017. It has a new -- and excellent -- soundboard.

I've never played a better Steinway, and that opinion is shared by a number of pianists much better than me who have played the instrument.

I couldn't be happier with it.

"Is it a Steinway?" That's just not a question about which I care.


[Linked Image][Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

"People may say I can't sing, but no one can ever say I didn't sing."

-- Florence Foster Jenkins
Re: Steinway with new board...still a Steinway? [Re: ClsscLib] #2928317 12/30/19 03:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 3,485
NobleHouse Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 3,485
Originally Posted by ClsscLib
I have a 1977 Steinway that was completely rebuilt by PianoCraft in 2017. It has a new -- and excellent -- soundboard.

I've never played a better Steinway, and that opinion is shared by a number of pianists much better than me who have played the instrument.

I couldn't be happier with it.

"Is it a Steinway?" That's just not a question about which I care.



To me, it IS a Steinway!



[Linked Image]
Re: Steinway with new board...still a Steinway? [Re: Skiiman1] #2928332 12/30/19 04:03 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 227
pianokeys135 Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 227
Originally Posted by Skiiman1
if it's not the original board . . . or replaced by Steinway. Then it's not a Steinway.


A rose by any other name is just as sweet. Who said that?? William something ...

Seriously, though, there are many rebuilt pianos with Steinway plates and cases that sound and play great. I wouldn't stress about whether it is a "steinway" or not, but would focus on the quality of the work that was done to it. How does it sound? How is the action? is the rebuilder reputable? etc..

^^ my opinion.

Last edited by pianokeys135; 12/30/19 04:03 PM.

pianokeys135
a piano player
Re: Steinway with new board...still a Steinway? [Re: ClsscLib] #2928396 12/30/19 06:02 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,737
Retsacnal Online Content

Platinum Supporter until Feb 18  2015
4000 Post Club Member
Online Content

Platinum Supporter until Feb 18  2015
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,737
Originally Posted by ClsscLib
"Is it a Steinway?" That's just not a question about which I care.

thumb



And still I dream she'll come to me
That we will live the years together
But there are dreams that cannot be
And there are storms we cannot weather
Re: Steinway with new board...still a Steinway? [Re: Skiiman1] #2928402 12/30/19 06:10 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,737
Retsacnal Online Content

Platinum Supporter until Feb 18  2015
4000 Post Club Member
Online Content

Platinum Supporter until Feb 18  2015
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,737
Originally Posted by Skiiman1
...Then it's not a Steinway.

What are your thoughts?


My thought is "who cares?"

An issue like that is predicated on the supposition that "Stineway"™ means it's better, or good, or valid, or whatever.

What matters most is touch and tone. Followed by price and durability.


Ironically, the people who press this issue the most are the ones who hold out their hand and make you pay for "Stineway"™. Conflict of interest?

People like your friend, who've apparently bitten the bullet and paid full freight for "Stineway"™ will also often defend the position. After all, they'd look kinda silly if they didn't at least pretend to believe it.



And still I dream she'll come to me
That we will live the years together
But there are dreams that cannot be
And there are storms we cannot weather
Re: Steinway with new board...still a Steinway? [Re: Skiiman1] #2928528 12/31/19 01:42 AM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 4,037
PhilipInChina Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 4,037
I had a blacksmith make me a lyre stay for my Bluthner. Does that make it not a Bluthner?


Currently working towards "Twinkle twinkle little star"
Re: Steinway with new board...still a Steinway? [Re: Retsacnal] #2928616 12/31/19 09:23 AM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 858
K
Karl Watson Offline
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
K
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 858
Friends:

Have to agree with Ret on this one. Who in blazes cares ?

Karl Watson,
Staten Island, NY

Re: Steinway with new board...still a Steinway? [Re: Skiiman1] #2928656 12/31/19 11:19 AM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,899
P
P W Grey Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,899
SS is engaging in a legally indefensible position purely as a marketing ploy. They can do this because they KNOW no one is going to challenge them to a court battle over it. The expense would be too great with nothing to win in the end. They also are not going to take anyone to court over the matter because they KNOW they would lose. As long as they stay out of the courtroom they can say and do virtually anything they want...and they are doing it.

In the end, if it says Steinway on it (which it does, cast right into the plate from the factory) it IS a Steinway...period. Legally, it does not matter if it has parts in it that did not come from the NY factory. Who cares what they say?

Pwg


Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK0T7_I_nV8
Re: Steinway with new board...still a Steinway? [Re: P W Grey] #2928711 12/31/19 12:50 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,567
j&j Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,567
Originally Posted by P W Grey
SS is engaging in a legally indefensible position purely as a marketing ploy. They can do this because they KNOW no one is going to challenge them to a court battle over it. The expense would be too great with nothing to win in the end. They also are not going to take anyone to court over the matter because they KNOW they would lose. As long as they stay out of the courtroom they can say and do virtually anything they want...and they are doing it.

In the end, if it says Steinway on it (which it does, cast right into the plate from the factory) it IS a Steinway...period. Legally, it does not matter if it has parts in it that did not come from the NY factory. Who cares what they say?

Pwg


It would also be impossible to enforce. What would they do? Scratch off the fallboard and soundboard insignia and somehow damage the insignia on the plate of newly declared counterfeit Steinways that were refurbished or repaired by someone other than Steinway?


J & J
Estonia L190 Hidden Beauty
Casio Privia PX-330
Pianos - the reason God made trees!
[Linked Image]
Re: Steinway with new board...still a Steinway? [Re: Skiiman1] #2928719 12/31/19 01:13 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 13,037
Rickster Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 13,037
Originally Posted by j&j
It would also be impossible to enforce. What would they do? Scratch off the fallboard and soundboard insignia and somehow damage the insignia on the plate of newly declared counterfeit Steinways that were refurbished or repaired by someone other than Steinway?

This is just my own opinion here, but I've come to the conclusion, based on what I've read here on PW over the years, that if you happen to say something, or do something, or say you are going to do something, or offer an opinion, or observation, or even think something that someone in the piano business, manufacturer, dealer, rebuilder, technician, etc... feels is somehow, and in some way, threatening their pocketbook, or their business or their profits, they will go on the attack and come after you with a vengeance.

There is no road that is too low that they won't take, or no blow that is to low for them to strike against you. It can be a rough and tumble, hard-ball business, I suppose.

That said, there are some good guys and gals out there in the business, and I'm not putting everyone in the same basket, or painting with a broad brush, but I'm just saying that some will protect their turf with every ounce of their being, and nothing is off the table.

But, again, this is my own personal opinion, based on what I've read here (and elsewhere) over the years.

I wish I had a more optimistic view of the piano business in general....

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: Steinway with new board...still a Steinway? [Re: Skiiman1] #2928740 12/31/19 02:07 PM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,899
P
P W Grey Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,899
Rick,

Precisely why SS and their threats should be ignored. (This is my opinion ☺)

Pwg


Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK0T7_I_nV8
Re: Steinway with new board...still a Steinway? [Re: Rickster] #2928741 12/31/19 02:07 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 3,485
NobleHouse Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 3,485
Originally Posted by Rickster
Originally Posted by j&j
It would also be impossible to enforce. What would they do? Scratch off the fallboard and soundboard insignia and somehow damage the insignia on the plate of newly declared counterfeit Steinways that were refurbished or repaired by someone other than Steinway?

This is just my own opinion here, but I've come to the conclusion, based on what I've read here on PW over the years, that if you happen to say something, or do something, or say you are going to do something, or offer an opinion, or observation, or even think something that someone in the piano business, manufacturer, dealer, rebuilder, technician, etc... feels is somehow, and in some way, threatening their pocketbook, or their business or their profits, they will go on the attack and come after you with a vengeance.

There is no road that is too low that they won't take, or no blow that is to low for them to strike against you. It can be a rough and tumble, hard-ball business, I suppose.

That said, there are some good guys and gals out there in the business, and I'm not putting everyone in the same basket, or painting with a broad brush, but I'm just saying that some will protect their turf with every ounce of their being, and nothing is off the table.

But, again, this is my own personal opinion, based on what I've read here (and elsewhere) over the years.

I wish I had a more optimistic view of the piano business in general....

Rick



+1 Can be a very cutthroat business.



[Linked Image]
Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6

Moderated by  Ken Knapp, Piano World 

What's Hot!!
News from the Piano World
Our January 2020 Newsletter Available Online Now...
Free Piano Newsletter
----------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Shop our Store for Music Lovers!
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Free Trial
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
How do I start teaching piano?
by Classical Lover - 02/22/20 02:00 AM
Kawaik500 price
by Morgrob - 02/21/20 10:30 PM
When to practice with pedal?
by baudelairepianist - 02/21/20 09:12 PM
Pure 12th aural tuning sequence
by TimM_980 - 02/21/20 08:41 PM
YUYS5 TA2 vs GC1 TA2
by SNkeys - 02/21/20 07:33 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics197,111
Posts2,928,476
Members96,066
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2019 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3