2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
Who's Online Now
73 members (accordeur, 36251, AndrewJCW, Bluthendorfer, Buzz209, c++, Calavera, 21 invisible), 911 guests, and 547 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 7 of 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Re: Estonia Concert Grand
LovingPianos #2899237 10/11/19 10:52 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,899
A
5000 Post Club Member
Offline
5000 Post Club Member
A
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,899
I get pains in my back and knees looking at those photos of you both working on your keys on the floor! I'm a stool and bench guy, for sure! It's funny because 20 years ago in my 20's I thought nothing of being on my hands and knees or crouched down for hours working on my old muscle cars. Time catches up with us though - mid-40's now and the wear and tear is noticeable.

Thanks for all the updates. Would love to come see this piano someday when I'm in Thailand!

Re: Estonia Concert Grand
ando #2899341 10/11/19 04:40 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 5,713

Platinum Supporter until Feb 18  2015
5000 Post Club Member
Online Content

Platinum Supporter until Feb 18  2015
5000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 5,713
Originally Posted by ando
I get pains in my back and knees looking at those photos of you both working on your keys on the floor! I'm a stool and bench guy, for sure! It's funny because 20 years ago in my 20's I thought nothing of being on my hands and knees or crouched down for hours working on my old muscle cars. Time catches up with us though - mid-40's now and the wear and tear is noticeable.

You're singing my song, Ando! Except I'm not in my 40's anymore... frown


January is National Slavery and Human Trafficking Awareness Month
Re: Estonia Concert Grand
LovingPianos #2926644 12/25/19 06:30 AM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 29
L
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
L
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 29
3hearts CHRISTMAS UPDATE!!! 3hearts

Hello everyone!! First of all, Merry Christmas!!! (FESTIVE CHRISTMASSY EMOJI ICON)

mad sick mad sick mad sick mad sick mad sick mad sick mad sick mad sick mad sick mad sick mad sick mad sick mad sick mad sick mad

Red and green! These should do....

Also it's 6 AM sans sleep...we were up to spot Santa!! sleep sleep

It's been SO long since we last posted. Apparently we were unable to find sufficient time during the past Fall semester to even think about the Estonia, let alone writing stuffs about it, even with the few breaks we had (Thanksgiving was fun with homework assignments). sick mad sick mad Mostly though, whenever we did have time, we had to work on one our big project, which is designing our new home (real reason for staying late today)! In the near future, it'll also be home for the Estonia!!

As enjoyable and productive the semester was, we're happy that it's over! Now, let's quickly dive into this before Spring starts again! thumb

A bit of a timeline information: it has been 4 whole months of staying in Indiana since leaving Thailand on August 22nd, and the very first day of restringing work was on August 1st. Therefore, the following posts will cover everything done during that 3-week frenzy of trying to wrap up the Estonia and her too many beauty enhancements. Hint: we succeeded!

Now...back to where we left off! Uh....well....hmm.....what was thaaa........can't quite remember! Well...meanwhile, here are some photos from way back when we "reverse-engineered" the down-bearing, that we forgot to post. Also, please ignore my weird plate-colored double-jointed finger:

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

And....ehm......uhh.....oh yes! Where we left off! crazy The technician came back to install the rest of the dampers, and started setting up the action works. By then we were slowly approaching the final steps of the project! yippie

Hammer flange screws adjustment:

[Linked Image]

This seems to be the adjustment of the drop screws, since there isn't anything else to be tweaked there. The tool he was using didn't look like a regular drop adjusting tool though...and its shape actually allowed such adjustments to be done with the action in place: confused

[Linked Image]

Escapement (regulating screw) adjustment. This was where the hammer striking heights are adjusted (mostly reduced), and the piano was finally playable as a result...not that we didn't try to play before they were... whistle whistle

[Linked Image]

The rest was simply finishing all that was started for the day...and apparently there weren't many. Unfortunately, that was the last day the technician came in — he got back to his busy schedule afterwards and wasn't available again for weeks, meaning that the Estonia was left unfinished, untuned, her action unfinalized, and most importantly, unvoiced.

This was quite a bummer for us being so eager to try her out...well...biggest bummer of 2019 so far! mad mad However, since the escapement has been adjusted, the piano was playable, sans tonal adjustments, and the only thing left to do was tuning, which the technician never got to do.

We figured it would be of best benefit during the long period away if we tune it at least once...so we did....or actually overdone it — we tuned a dozen more times during the few remaining days! It was an amazing experience for us to battle with young rebellious strings against new tension in unfamiliar environments of a refurbished piano. grin

On our part, we finished up everything left of the aesthetical additions, one of them being the fallboard felt replacement...in tortoise...no..turquoise!

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

And other stuffs being...well, we don't remember now! crazy

All in all, the Estonia is visually complete, and pretty darn close functionally!

STAY TUNED FOR THE UNVEIL NEXT POST!!!!!

Re: Estonia Concert Grand
LovingPianos #2926678 12/25/19 09:17 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,037
j&j Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,037
Love the pictures and love the update. I’m even more interested in your work now because I traded in my Yamaha C3 then wo months ago for a new Estonia L190. Thus way U get to see first hand how the work was done. Merry Christmas!


J & J
Estonia L190 Hidden Beauty
Casio Privia PX-330
My piano’s voice is beautiful!
[Linked Image]
Re: Estonia Concert Grand
LovingPianos #2927169 12/27/19 06:05 AM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 29
L
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
L
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 29
Originally Posted by ando
I get pains in my back and knees looking at those photos of you both working on your keys on the floor! I'm a stool and bench guy, for sure! It's funny because 20 years ago in my 20's I thought nothing of being on my hands and knees or crouched down for hours working on my old muscle cars. Time catches up with us though - mid-40's now and the wear and tear is noticeable.

Thanks for all the updates. Would love to come see this piano someday when I'm in Thailand!

That's actually a good reminder for us young ones to take better care of ourselves! Our father also have back problems, so we know it's never fun! Time flies, and sooner than you think, your body feels much older than your mind, doesn't it!

We would love you to visit the Estonia if you have the chance to come to Thailand!!

Originally Posted by j&j
I’m even more interested in your work now because I traded in my Yamaha C3 then wo months ago for a new Estonia L190. Thus way U get to see first hand how the work was done. Merry Christmas!

Congrats on getting the new piano! We've read a lot about the newer Estonias being very well-regarded and much improved in their build quality. Out of curiousity, what price range was your L190 around?

Also, we forgot to mention one other important work on the action, and that was regulation of the key pin holes. These holes go over the balance rail pins on the keybed (inner row), which function as a pivot point for the keyboard. Over time they get worn out a lot from constant playing, therefore the technician assigned us a task to check each of the 88 pin holes in the keys for loose/tight fitting. This was the case for almost all of the white keys, so they were given a coat (or two) of white glue inside:

[Linked Image]

To check if the fix is good, the key was laid back onto the rail pin without pushing all the way in, so that with a gentle tap it should slowly fall into place. A loose, prestissimo fall or no fall at all means more adjustments are needed. This isn't the most special task, except for the fact that it took hours of painstaking focus! Why do we have so many keys! But as pianists, why don't we have enough? grin

Now, stay tuned for the next post!!!

Last edited by LovingPianos; 12/27/19 06:06 AM.
Re: Estonia Concert Grand
LovingPianos #2927437 12/27/19 08:20 PM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 6,217
L
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
L
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 6,217
Wonderful work ! Just keep up the vision of a beautiful Estonia concert piano !
You will soon be playing it !

Re: Estonia Concert Grand
LovingPianos #2927472 12/27/19 11:23 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 5,713

Platinum Supporter until Feb 18  2015
5000 Post Club Member
Online Content

Platinum Supporter until Feb 18  2015
5000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 5,713
Can't wait to see the finished product.


January is National Slavery and Human Trafficking Awareness Month
Re: Estonia Concert Grand
LovingPianos #2927532 12/28/19 09:01 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,037
j&j Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,037
The Estonia L190 with Bubinga on the inside lid, the music desk, and sides and inner fallboard was on sale for $41,200. I got full trade in for my C3 so it cost me about $11,300 and my 8 year old Yamaha. Ya know buying and later trading up is supposed to be the worst way to buy pianos, but since I was working with a top notch dealer it was very easy and painless.
But restoring an older Estonia concert grand is a great way to learn every detail of the piano. But I don’t think my back or knees are up to the work you’re doing anymore. And I’m positive I don’t have the patience. grin


J & J
Estonia L190 Hidden Beauty
Casio Privia PX-330
My piano’s voice is beautiful!
[Linked Image]
Re: Estonia Concert Grand
Retsacnal #2927567 12/28/19 11:06 AM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 6,217
L
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
L
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 6,217
Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Wonderful work ! Just keep up the vision of a beautiful Estonia concert piano !
You will soon be playing it !

Originally Posted by Retsacnal
Can't wait to see the finished product.

Just keep going!

Re: Estonia Concert Grand
Lady Bird #2927715 12/28/19 08:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 3,487
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 3,487
Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Wonderful work ! Just keep up the vision of a beautiful Estonia concert piano !
You will soon be playing it !

Originally Posted by Retsacnal
Can't wait to see the finished product.

Just keep going!



Yes, keep going as your project is really moving along.



[Linked Image]
Re: Estonia Concert Grand
LovingPianos #2927774 12/29/19 03:30 AM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 29
L
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
L
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 29
The long awaited post is finally here!

First of all, it has been such an amazing journey through rebuilding this piano, considering it was something we had never ever imagined of doing before. We did not only learn so many new things, but also found ways to apply techniques we've been practicing to good use. As children, we discovered ourselves to be little "reverse engineers", taking toys apart and study them purposelessly. Later on, we found better use of this skill and started scale modeling (warships in particular), and most days would pass by with hours of filling, sanding, and painting the tiny little models. And this past summer, a piano was deconstructed!! Ironically, it didn't look the same when we put it back together!! crazy crazy

It is also amazing to see how this experience affected the way we see, hear, and even play a piano now that we know so much more beyond the fallboard...and to realize there is even more we don't know about.

The Estonia proved itself to be an excellent "core" piano, and how its plain and very “Soviet” quality called for such a crazy makeover. Had it been a newer Yamaha CFX or Steinway D, we wouldn't be so inclined to do so, much less even dare to touch it!

Having said all that, may we present you all the photographic evidence!


[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Re: Estonia Concert Grand
LovingPianos #2927777 12/29/19 03:46 AM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 29
L
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
L
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 29
- PART 2 -

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Here we put some LED lights in for some interesting effect on the lid.

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Obviously at this stage it's a happy ending for us!!! There are still a few more things we wish we had time to do, so there will definitely be a part 2 to this project when the time comes (in a few months)!

Here's the to-do list:

- Voicing
- Fine-tuning
- Any other necessary adjustments
- Finalizing leg decoration works
- Side lid lock repair

And here's the crazier to-do list:

- New larger casters
- New music rack
- New piano restoration project

Well....the last one was a joke....at least for now!

A proper voicing and fine-tuning will finally reveal the piano's true sound quality, and by then we will be able to make a recording on it!!! There will also be other minor adjustments, perhaps on the action regulation, screw polishing, but mostly for a squeaking pedal (felt replacements). Most pianists wouldn't call it a minor problem though!! The decorative leg painting will be finalized for all three legs, and they might be given some darker washes (TBD).
The lid lock knob on the bentside is missing both the hook and pad eye plate on the lid, which was a bit unfair since the Blüthner concert grands in the same storage room had two complete sets of these! Interestingly, the old-model Estonia seemed to have a different type of lid locking mechanism that looks a bit...weird:

http://parlonspiano.com/public/user/65/38/382d_e9d2.jpg

For the caster fantasy, it's actually something necessary. Moving a piano this size with so small casters is a cumbersome task for at least three people, so we plan to change to concert-size double casters. The only problem is, these are ridiculously expensive to get — a SINGLE caster costs from $610 to $1,200+ depending on design and lock options. Two more and you can buy a small piano! Hence, we'll be drafting our own design, and if we succeed, they can be produced by some CNC milling company. Take it with a grain of salt, though, and wish us luck! crazy crazy

The original Estonia music rack is very heavy and unwieldy, as well as a bit..basic, industrial style, and...well...ugly. sick We already have a few designs drafted out, so hopefully we will get to do it next time.

Anyhow, enough about the day-dreaming! That is about all we have for the Estonia, and we hope you all enjoy this journey as much as we did, and still do!! Oh...and next time you see the piano, call her Sofia, as we have named her in honor of the birth city of our beloved piano professor at Indiana University, Mr. Émile Naoumoff!

Happy Holidays to everyone, and please anticipate for a new year full of pianos, A.K.A happiness!


— Sippakorn & Sippapas Kaewthamai

Last edited by LovingPianos; 12/29/19 03:55 AM.
Re: Estonia Concert Grand
LovingPianos #2927910 12/29/19 01:52 PM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 6,217
L
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
L
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 6,217
She looks great ! You have turned soviet piano into something with an art case .
That wing looks great, so does the rest of the piano.So now it's voicing ,adjustments and fine tuning.
It's a pity you have to worry about replacing the castors if the old ones are not damaged.
But I am sure you know best .We would love to hear a recording some time.I suppose voicing the
piano will take some time.
Actually even soviet era Estonia's still have "an element of respect here." A while back a rebuilder of
pianos said that he even rebuilds soviet era Bluthner pianos. Perhaps it is just the name but there have been members on PW who have bought soviet era pianos and are happy with them.(in their original condition.(perhaps some have been restored)
Do not go too wild with the art now.The wing is perfect by the way !
The piano looks gorgeous!

Re: Estonia Concert Grand
LovingPianos #2927912 12/29/19 01:57 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,037
j&j Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,037
The new Estonia’s come with big double brass casters. I wonder if you could get in touch with a local Estonia dealer or not so local depending on where you’re working and ask them if you could buy casters from Estonia Piano itself. I can’t image they cost the price you were quoted. The other thing you could do is post a request for suppliers of concert level double castors with locks on the Piano Technician’s Forum. Those folks have surely replaced more than their share of castors. Good Luck!


J & J
Estonia L190 Hidden Beauty
Casio Privia PX-330
My piano’s voice is beautiful!
[Linked Image]
Re: Estonia Concert Grand
LovingPianos #2927914 12/29/19 02:05 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 29,095
B
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 29,095
The large casters are very expensive, and require shorter legs. They are also prone to running away if you forget to lock them.


Semipro Tech
Re: Estonia Concert Grand
j&j #2927915 12/29/19 02:08 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,037
j&j Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,037
Gosh! She does look gorgeous. I for one, love the name posted on the side of my pianos. I love the inside eagle feather on texture design on the underside of the lid.


J & J
Estonia L190 Hidden Beauty
Casio Privia PX-330
My piano’s voice is beautiful!
[Linked Image]
Re: Estonia Concert Grand
BDB #2927918 12/29/19 02:14 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,037
j&j Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,037
Wow, after reading that I’m gonna go gently dust and enjoy the big brass castors on my piano. Mine lock only because they’re in caster cups. I guess sometimes you don’t know what you’ve already got.


J & J
Estonia L190 Hidden Beauty
Casio Privia PX-330
My piano’s voice is beautiful!
[Linked Image]
Re: Estonia Concert Grand
LovingPianos #2927920 12/29/19 02:26 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,037
j&j Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,037
The piano matches beautifully with the gorgeous painting next to it.


J & J
Estonia L190 Hidden Beauty
Casio Privia PX-330
My piano’s voice is beautiful!
[Linked Image]
Re: Estonia Concert Grand
LovingPianos #2927921 12/29/19 02:35 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,614
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,614
Quote
The Estonia proved itself to be an excellent "core" piano, and how its plain and very “Soviet” quality called for such a crazy makeover.


While I agree with the first part, not sure about the latter. Contrary to what people believe, Estonias had always been special pianos, especially with regards to "sound".
I immediately noticed this some 25 years ago when playing these pianos first. It became obvious to me Estonia's sound is not just the some of the sum of its part, but - like a Spanish Flamenco guitar - something strangely more. IMHO the way these pianos are being made by the Estonian people, almost unconsciously so. Perhaps less so than is today, but this overriding factor had never been completely gone. Let's not forget, Estonia's culture is widely based on "song" with a singing quality of sound anchored in their national language. Something that had always been a major part of Estonian culture. My prediction [again...] is that this piano will not only be be outstanding but SPECTACULAR! It could become a historical cultural icon for Estonia itself. Proving that the spirit of its people may have been oppressed in the past but had never been really broken. Let's see if I'm right with this.

Norbert

Last edited by Norbert; 12/29/19 02:38 PM.

www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642
Re: Estonia Concert Grand
Norbert #2927931 12/29/19 03:10 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,037
j&j Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,037
Originally Posted by Norbert
Quote
The Estonia proved itself to be an excellent "core" piano, and how its plain and very “Soviet” quality called for such a crazy makeover.


While I agree with the first part, not sure about the latter. Contrary to what people believe, Estonias had always been special pianos, especially with regards to "sound".
I immediately noticed this some 25 years ago when playing these pianos first. It became obvious to me Estonia's sound is not just the some of the sum of its part, but - like a Spanish Flamenco guitar - something strangely more. IMHO the way these pianos are being made by the Estonian people, almost unconsciously so. Perhaps less so than is today, but this overriding factor had never been completely gone. Let's not forget, Estonia's culture is widely based on "song" with a singing quality of sound anchored in their national language. Something that had always been a major part of Estonian culture. My prediction [again...] is that this piano will not only be be outstanding but SPECTACULAR! It could become a historical cultural icon for Estonia itself. Proving that the spirit of its people may have been oppressed in the past but had never been really broken. Let's see if I'm right with this.

Norbert


As an Estonia owner for a mere two months, I believe you are right. To me, Estonia pianos are somehow enchanting. Beautifully built with a singing tone. Plus, still reasonably priced. What’s not to love? laugh


J & J
Estonia L190 Hidden Beauty
Casio Privia PX-330
My piano’s voice is beautiful!
[Linked Image]
Page 7 of 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

Moderated by  Ken Knapp, Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
What's Hot!!
News from the Piano World
100,000!
---------------------
NEW! Sell Your Piano on our world famous Piano Forums!
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Tuning pin video
by accordeur - 01/16/21 03:22 PM
Concert pianist opintions regarding DP actions
by Marc345 - 01/16/21 02:50 PM
Size, placement, brand
by Anjru - 01/16/21 02:31 PM
KAWAI CA79 METRONOME
by Giovanni Zanini - 01/16/21 01:43 PM
DIY Acoustical Digital Piano - algorithm
by stemPianist - 01/16/21 01:04 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics204,297
Posts3,047,382
Members100,079
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


© copyright 1997 - 2021 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4