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Re: Ok, so I've been thinking about Max's cardboard fix
Loren D #2623839 03/15/17 12:37 AM
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http://www.forumklassika.ru/showthread.php?t=63425&page=290
We hear negative comments from some people who are disdainful writing use a cardboard about. A young lady found the announcement of the sale of the Blunner piano. She asked for advice from the technicians of a forum "Classics". The photo can not clarify the technical characteristics of the state of the pins and their friction, I believe.

" Let’s God judges them because they don't know what they are doing"


Liisa76
Newbie
03/14/2012
Good evening! If there yours a minute, please see the announcement (selling the Blütner piano about) there are 4 photos.
https://www.avito.ru/moskva/muzykalnye_instrumenty/pianino_bluthner_1218575695
Is it reasonable to consider it's for purchase good? Maybe there are some features of the model / brand / design / time period, which is clear to professionals immediately - "do not take it's!".
I would be very grateful for yuors preliminary opinion.
I want to understand whether it is worth inviting the master to inspect this upright piano.
Elizabeth

vladimir33

Newbie
It seems that a pinblock wasit is stuffed ed corrugated cardboard on the advice of "folk craftsmen." This can lead to the need (I would say that most likely, this need has already come) to replace a pinblock so that a piano becomes good instrument

ALEXY
Moderator
Veneer or cardboard is visible in individual pins only. But this is not proof that you need to change a pinblock . A pin most likely original. Because it may well be just a replacement of old pins.

[Linked Image] https://60.img.avito.st/1280x960/3376836760.jpg

Last edited by Maximillyan; 03/15/17 12:43 AM.
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Re: Ok, so I've been thinking about Max's cardboard fix
Loren D #2640289 05/05/17 11:38 AM
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Victor used corrugated cardboard fix to tighten tuning pins for his home upright piano
He wrote:
Victor Dyachenko
Unfortunately I'm not a professional tuner. Just for lack of finance, I myself need tuning home upright piano my daughter's . I myself am the engineer of the steelmaking technologist here and I want to learn the basics of tuning upright. I using a computer program for tuning. Today I did it's the second time. The first was more successful. Today drew attention to loose pins that were quickly upset after the first tuning. It's C #2 and E2 Thank you very much for your advice with corrugated cardboard.
https://youtu.be/hC4igLgzdLg

Last edited by Maximillyan; 05/05/17 11:40 AM.
Re: Ok, so I've been thinking about Max's cardboard fix
Loren D #2656443 06/25/17 10:15 PM
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Translation on Turkish language

Gevşeyen akort vidası (burgusu) için mukavva dolgusu çözümü:

Bu yöntem, gevşeyen vidayı sabitlemek için uygun maliyetli bir çözüm yöntemidir. Yöntemle herhangi bir nedenle meydana gelen gevşek ayar vidalarının sebep olduğu bitişik tellerin detonasyonu önlenir.

İlk olarak, akort vidasını tel sarmallarını gevşetmek için yeterince çevirin. Ardından, dar (ama güçlü) bir tornavida veya bir tığ kullanarak teli akort piminin deliğinden çıkarın. Teli vida deliğinden tamamen çıkarın.

Tel ve sarmalları bırakıp ayarlama vidasını tamamen sökün. Herhangi bir oluklu mukavvadan yaklaşık 2mm veya 3mm kalınlığında, 20mm x 50mm'lik bir parça kesin. Kestiğiniz karton şeridi, akort vidası yuvasına yerleştirin (kartonu akort vidasının yuvasına yerleştirmeyi kolaylaştırmak için karton parçasını tornavida milinde şekillendirmek yararlı olabilir). Akort vidasını mukavva parçası yerinde duracak şekilde sıkıca deliğe sokun. Akort vidasını yavaşça çevirerek (ısınmayı önlemek için) dikkatlice döndürün. Vidayı daha öncekiyle aynı seviyeye getirin.

Uygun bir pense kullanarak telin ucunu akort vidası deliğine dikkatlice geri sokun. Tel sarmallarının bir telli kanca veya tornavida ile sıkı tutulduğundan emin olun.

Teli akort edin. Mukavva dolgu yöntemi, vidayı yıllarca sıkı tutacak tutkal içermeyen bir yöntemdir.


Re: Ok, so I've been thinking about Max's cardboard fix
Loren D #2667099 08/08/17 11:55 PM
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About a cardboard shim wrote on American forum piano technician
https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=64069.msg680299#msg680299
indianajo

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member

"Some pianos have tighter pin blocks than others. My beautiful sounding, fast 1982 Sohmer 39, alas need touching up the treble tune about every month. It has a 5 ply pin block. It is not any particular pin, it is them all.
OTOH, my very similar sounding 1940 Steinway 40, with the solid pin block holds tune about 18 months. Go figure.
Yes, if it is always the same note that needs tuning, then it would be productive to put adhesive, a cardboard shim, or a bigger pin in that hole. Most piano "tuners" are not really repairmen and at least in my area, would never attempt that job. "

Re: Ok, so I've been thinking about Max's cardboard fix
Loren D #2679636 10/04/17 08:20 AM
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LEONARDO XAVIER wrote:
"Já vi de tudo em piano,mais calçar uma cravelha com lixa e demais.Vai aprender primeiro a trabalhar com piano antes de postar umas porcaria como essa. Se não sabe como fazer o certo ,não faz o errado."
I've seen everything on the piano, plus put into a pin in the sand and so on. I'll learn first how to work with the piano before posting crap like that. If you do not know how to do it right, do not do it wrong.

It seems to me that
Mr. Leonardo Xavier is somewhat categorical in his assessments and advice. Is not it?

Re: Ok, so I've been thinking about Max's cardboard fix
Loren D #2706715 01/20/18 10:04 AM
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Виталий Ярославский
Ребенок. Я работаю 47 лет в Этой профессии возвращаю инструменты из старой жизни в новую всякое и всяких псевдо-мастеров видел но такой Индивидум впервые .. Да возьми ты шлифовальную шкурку 100-80 на тканевой клеевой основе вырежь полоску вставь в гнездо с низу и забей вирбель остаток полоски оторви. так иногда работаем- мы мастера с знаниями и ключь свой засунь...

An angry curse was placed under the video from a certain Mr. Vitaly Yaroslavsky:

"You is a Child. I work 47 years in this profession. I return pianos from old life to new everything and I knew all sorts of pseudo masters but such an Individual like you for the first time ..
Take you a 100-80 sand paper on fabric base. Cut a strip and set it's into a hole of a pinblock. Hammering a pin use a hammer now. We are piano tecnicians masters always working indeed so. Put your T-bar in yours ass ... "


Re: Ok, so I've been thinking about Max's cardboard fix
Loren D #2726870 04/05/18 11:16 PM
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Chinese translation for using cardboard shim. It's translated to simplified Chinese for this is common in Mainland China.
用薄卡纸解决钉松方法
这个方法成本效益比较好,
可避免用锤敲打弦轴钉引至邻近弦走音。 首先,转松弦轴钉,用细小而坚硬螺丝起子或者尖锥退出弦线。 然后把弦轴钉完全转出来,弦线和弦线圈圈留在原位。 从2mm厚皱纹薄卡纸裁出20mm x 50mm卡纸片。 把卡纸片放入弦轴孔(可以先用螺丝起子把卡纸片弄成圆圈状使到更易放作弦轴孔)。 卡纸留在孔内,同时从新把弦轴钉转入去。 要小心留意,转速要缓慢避免弦轴发热。 把弦轴完全转入,重新挂上弦线,用挂弦钩或者螺丝起子理顺弦线圈。 调整弦线到正确频率。 薄卡纸方法可以使弦钉在未内几年时间保持紧实而不需要用超能胶。


Re: Ok, so I've been thinking about Max's cardboard fix
Loren D #2746435 06/22/18 10:29 PM
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Ilya from the Russian Chelyabinsk installed several cardboard shims for loose tuning pins on the old Soviet piano "KUZBASS"

Re: Ok, so I've been thinking about Max's cardboard fix
Loren D #2839259 04/14/19 11:12 PM
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Max was forced to use a corrugated cardboard shim there because many pins was loose:

Re: Ok, so I've been thinking about Max's cardboard fix
Loren D #2857157 06/10/19 02:56 AM
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8. The last time my piano was tuned I was told that the tuning pins are loose. Is there anything that can be done for my piano?

There are several ways to tighten the tuning pins on your piano.

1. The process of "gluing" the pins is the one I recommend. This process involves laying the vertical piano on its back (similar procedure for a grand only they are already laying flat) and applying very thin but also very potent CA glue on every tuning pin and let the very thin glue be gravity fed down the pins length where it hardens and causes the wood to swell around the pin. This is the cheapest way to correct the issue of loose tuning pins of which I charge $175 which “includes” a tuning. Please note that by performing this procedure on your piano this means the tuning pins will have good resistance for the next 5 to 6 years. The piano should hold its tune for at least 12 months now as opposed to tuning it every 3-4 months without this procedure.
2. Also and more commonly although not nearly as productive I will glue them one at a time or in other words “as I find they need it” with the piano in upright position since pianos are so heavy. This procedure is adequate although not as good as number 1 above.
3. There is another way to tighten the pins. When the piano is restrung and new pins are installed whereby the technician will replace the pins with a larger diameter pin.
4. Another approach for the loose tuning pins is to replace them individually with a slightly larger diameter tuning pin.
5. Also the loose pin(s) can be taken out and the hole lined with a 50mm cardboard and the tuning pin then screwed in with the cardboard acting as a gap filler hence causing resistance.
https://www.pianotuningfredericton.com/often-asked-questions
I have doubts that a 50mm cardboard pwm will good fully fit into a pinblock hole.
Perhaps the author of the blog from Minto meant "length of a strip of cardboard"

Re: Ok, so I've been thinking about Max's cardboard fix
Loren D #2927152 12/27/19 01:25 AM
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A tuner from Yekaterinburg Kostya who shot this clip recently wrote the following words:
"I think Maxim is a very bold man that went against the system, years later I found his method is very correct, this method is not the most traumatic for a pinblock, Max, I press of your paw!"

Re: Ok, so I've been thinking about Max's cardboard fix
Loren D #2927689 12/28/19 06:10 PM
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Yesterday I received an email from a cimbalom player who wanted help to fix a few loose tuning pins. Although I am not familiar with cimbalom I suggested that he could try either 1) Cutting a piece of rough cardboard to use as a shim, rolling it up, putting it in the pin hole and reinserting the pin. Or 2) removing the pins and squirting superglue into the hole and reinserting the pin before the glue dries. He tried option 1 with the cardboard shim and said it worked and thanked me for the assistance.


Chris Leslie
Piano technician
http://www.chrisleslie.com.au
Re: Ok, so I've been thinking about Max's cardboard fix
Chris Leslie #2927746 12/28/19 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris Leslie
Yesterday I received an email from a cimbalom player who wanted help to fix a few loose tuning pins. Although I am not familiar with cimbalom I suggested that he could try either 1) Cutting a piece of rough cardboard to use as a shim, rolling it up, putting it in the pin hole and reinserting the pin. Or 2) removing the pins and squirting superglue into the hole and reinserting the pin before the glue dries. He tried option 1 with the cardboard shim and said it worked and thanked me for the assistance.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cimbalom

My dear, Chris your message has become a good sign for me on Christmas! I was very happy for the unknown a cimbalom player who was able to fix the lost pins using rough cardboard here. He choice option 1 (Cutting a piece of rough cardboard to use as a shim, rolling it up, putting it in the pin hole and reinserting the pin.)
I am also not familiar with the device of this mechanism, however, I dare to assume that this was done correctly and this will contribute to hardness of a cimbalom pin. It’s painless for a cimbalom's pinblock, I guess. A pressure of the pin a cimbalom pinblock is less than a pressure piano's pinblock.
By the way, in 2014, one young man from Ukraine, (the city of Sumy) wrote to me also about fixed his lose pin of a cimbalom . He used laminat plates glued from ordinary reeds. He said it works as well. Reeds and cardboard are similar materials, I suppose.
I am overwhelmed with a sense of joy that people of good will are able to help for free using communication on the Internet. Thank you Dear Loren D for his topic here: "Ok, so I've been thinking about Max's cardboard fix"
I have a request, if possible, to convey to cimbalom player my sincere admiration for his correction of the pins.
Once again I express my gratitude to you, Chris.
I wish good talant job of tuner in New 2020 YEAR!
Merry Christmas!
Sincerely, Your Max is from faraway Kazakhstan

Last edited by Maximillyan; 12/28/19 10:39 PM.
Re: Ok, so I've been thinking about Max's cardboard fix
Loren D #2980488 05/17/20 05:44 PM
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Hey Max, looks like Putin needs a fulltime tech to cardboard shim his pianos before performance. last tuner received some punishment for this disaster, so be careful.



Re: Ok, so I've been thinking about Max's cardboard fix
TimM_980 #2980676 05/18/20 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by TimM_980
Hey Max, looks like Putin needs a fulltime tech to cardboard shim his pianos before performance. last tuner received some punishment for this disaster, so be careful.


Thanks for your admonition, TimM_980
A tuner no received some punishment for it's. He no knew that it's grand need good tuning now. It's chine grand piano. Before Putin's performance nobody chine technicians was serviced piano here, I'm think
We careful always even if it's no grand piano Putin. I seldom set cardboard shim into grand piano. 1-2 shim in middle region of a grand.
Putin played the piano while waiting to meet Xi Jinping. The Russian President was taking part in the ‘One Belt, One Road’ forum.

Re: Ok, so I've been thinking about Max's cardboard fix
Loren D #3006673 07/25/20 02:38 PM
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I think using the cardboard to repair the tuning pin is a good approach. But it depends on piano and how much is paid for the reparation. In few word the process chosen depends exclusively on the kind of client.

Re: Ok, so I've been thinking about Max's cardboard fix
zonzi #3006817 07/26/20 01:32 AM
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Originally Posted by zonzi
I think using the cardboard to repair the tuning pin is a good approach. But it depends on piano and how much is paid for the reparation. In few word the process chosen depends exclusively on the kind of client.
hi,zonzi
Thank you for your feedback on the use of the cardboard for lost tuning pin. I'm agree with you, that main thing is a conscious choice of a client here. "the client is always right."
From myself, I can add that this practice is the least painful for a condition old pinblock.
Best regards, Max.

Re: Ok, so I've been thinking about Max's cardboard fix
zonzi #3006916 07/26/20 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by zonzi
I think using the cardboard to repair the tuning pin is a good approach.
I did made that cardboard operation in grand piano "PETROF" when preparing it's for a concert.

Re: Ok, so I've been thinking about Max's cardboard fix
Maximillyan #3007013 07/26/20 02:15 PM
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They sound great. Just one suggestion, please try to put some prints/paints on the cardboard and put it inside a nice package. the clients and other technicians will feel much more comfortable.
Anyway the old Soviet is amazing, they have sent at least 2 grand Petrof in the most remote place in the USSR.
Your place has so many very technical pianists, that’s really great.

Re: Ok, so I've been thinking about Max's cardboard fix
zonzi #3007264 07/27/20 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by zonzi
They sound great. Just one suggestion, please try to put some prints/paints on the cardboard and put it inside a nice package. the clients and other technicians will feel much more comfortable.

I will definitely use your advice. kidding))). Seriously speaking, cardboard is OUR savior, even without labels. I installed a couple of cardboard shims there. It still works!

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