2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.9 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

Who's Online Now
71 registered members (bobrunyan, ando, beeboss, Blague, BachToTheFuture, akc42, AYS, Boboulus, 24 invisible), 371 guests, and 427 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Re: For all you audiophiles [Re: j&j] #2924371 12/18/19 02:31 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 2,312
L
LarryK Online Content
2000 Post Club Member
Online Content
2000 Post Club Member
L
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 2,312
Originally Posted by j&j
Also vacuum tubes do run pretty hot that’s why I snickered about a tube amps warmth.


I never got into tube rolling and dealing with the possibility of tubes going microphonic and transmitting noise to your speakers. I’m a solid state guy. My Class A monster runs burning hot. Don’t grab one of its heat sinks!


Yamaha U1 Silent Piano
Piano & Music Gifts & Accessories (570)
Piano accessories and music gift items, digital piano dolly, music theme party goods
Re: For all you audiophiles [Re: Beemer] #2924674 12/19/19 10:22 AM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 318
P
pathguy Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 318
Cool amp!

I own a tube integrated and tube phono stage: I love them! As a bonus, the amp helps to heat the room in the winter!! wink

Re: For all you audiophiles [Re: j&j] #2924719 12/19/19 12:33 PM
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 343
G
gwing Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
G
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 343
Originally Posted by j&j
Also vacuum tubes do run pretty hot that’s why I snickered about a tube amps warmth.


Actually the heat output is probably more about how much (hugely inefficient) class A power is supplied rather than whether the amp is tube or solid state. Most solid state amps (excepting Krells etc.) are cooler because they only deliver a tiny amount of power in class A and the rest in more efficient (but higher distortion) modes.

As LarryK notes a big true class A amp delivers a ferocious amount of heat, even when idle. I built one as a student finding the heat sinks were actually more expensive than all the electronics put together so we ran with smallish heat sinks drilled for total loss water cooling courtesy of the sink tap and basin in my student room. Then I went on to valves ...

P.S. it was said that tube amps sound 'warm'. That is usually true but it doesn't have to be - you can have a tube amp as clear and analytical as any conventional amp but they usually aren't because (a) they usually just aren't well designed (b) providing really good full range transformers allowing full and even total range is ferociously expensive and (c) most customers actually expect and want that nice warm sound with the treble rolled off because that's 'how a tube amp should sound'. But it doesn't have to be that way.

Last edited by gwing; 12/19/19 12:39 PM.
Re: For all you audiophiles [Re: gwing] #2924724 12/19/19 12:42 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,405
Tyrone Slothrop Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,405
Originally Posted by gwing
I built one as a student finding the heat sinks were actually more expensive than all the electronics put together so we ran with smallish heat sinks drilled for total loss water cooling courtesy of the sink tap and basin in my student room.

There are real high end Class A audio amps (the $500K+ variety) with absolutely gorgeous heat sinks. Works of art. Super cool looking. But I don't know how well they work. I harbor the suspicion that many of them are not CFD modeled, but are just aesthetically designed to look super cool and edgy! 🤣


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: For all you audiophiles [Re: gwing] #2924725 12/19/19 12:44 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 2,312
L
LarryK Online Content
2000 Post Club Member
Online Content
2000 Post Club Member
L
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 2,312
Originally Posted by gwing
Originally Posted by j&j
Also vacuum tubes do run pretty hot that’s why I snickered about a tube amps warmth.


Actually the heat output is probably more about how much (hugely inefficient) class A power is supplied rather than whether the amp is tube or solid state. Most solid state amps (excepting Krells etc.) only deliver a tiny amount of power in class A and the rest in more efficient (but higher distortion) modes.

As LarryK notes a big true class A amp delivers a ferocious amount of heat, even when idle. I built one as a student finding the heat sinks were actually more expensive than all the electronics put together so we ran with smallish heat sinks drilled for total loss water cooling courtesy of the sink tap and basin in my student room. Then I went on to valves ...


Yes, in true Class A amplifiers, the transistors never switch off, they actually produce more heat at idle than when playing music. because, at idle, they only produce heat and not sound, lol.

The beauty of Class A amplifiers is that there is no crossover distortion, which happens when transistors are turned off and on, because the transistors are never switched off. As a result, Class A amplifiers have a smoothness to the sound which I do not hear in Class AB amplifiers.

I'd post a picture of my monster amp but you'll just conclude that I'm crazy, haha. It is built kind of like a chimney, with huge heat sinks on the front and back of the chimney. I think the design makes a lot of sense because it saves on floor space and naturally funnels heat up. With 48 bipolar transistors, 24 per channel, it produces a lot of heat.

As for water cooled designs, I'd be afraid of a leak! I had a water cooled Mac computer at one point and was glad to get rid of it, although it never sprang a leak.

Last edited by LarryK; 12/19/19 12:46 PM.

Yamaha U1 Silent Piano
Re: For all you audiophiles [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2924728 12/19/19 12:54 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 2,312
L
LarryK Online Content
2000 Post Club Member
Online Content
2000 Post Club Member
L
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 2,312
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by gwing
I built one as a student finding the heat sinks were actually more expensive than all the electronics put together so we ran with smallish heat sinks drilled for total loss water cooling courtesy of the sink tap and basin in my student room.

There are real high end Class A audio amps (the $500K+ variety) with absolutely gorgeous heat sinks. Works of art. Super cool looking. But I don't know how well they work. I harbor the suspicion that many of them are not CFD modeled, but are just aesthetically designed to look super cool and edgy! 🤣


What brands/models are in the $500k range? Monoblocks? I didn't go that far, I bought a stereo amp. My amp was a true bargain and did not cost anywhere near $500k, more like less than 5% of that amount.

Ok, fine, here is a stock photo of my monster amp. It is 76cm/29inches high. The front and rear parts are the massive heatsinks I mentioned in a previous post.

[Linked Image]

Last edited by LarryK; 12/19/19 12:54 PM.

Yamaha U1 Silent Piano
Re: For all you audiophiles [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2924762 12/19/19 03:17 PM
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 343
G
gwing Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
G
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 343
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

There are real high end Class A audio amps (the $500K+ variety) with absolutely gorgeous heat sinks. Works of art. Super cool looking. But I don't know how well they work. I harbor the suspicion that many of them are not CFD modeled, but are just aesthetically designed to look super cool and edgy! 🤣


Maybe a bit of both, probably with the emphasis on aesthetics. At the end of the day it doesn't matter too much if the heat sinks have to be a bit bigger than an optimal design. As long as they have enough surface area and airflow what they look like is probably a lot more important to the designer and customer than the cost of some extra aluminium and machining time.

Last edited by gwing; 12/19/19 03:18 PM.
Re: For all you audiophiles [Re: Beemer] #2925744 12/22/19 11:31 AM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 188
R
redfish1901 Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
R
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 188
In other news, Stereophile magazine measured Gryphon Audio Designs' new Ethos ($39,000) (https://www.stereophile.com/content/gryphon-ethos-cd-player-da-processor).

It's not any better (in measurements) than any other $100 CD player or DAC. In fact it's quite a bit worse than a good $100 dedicated DAC (like Topping D30).

It looks fancy though. And will definitely impress other audiophiles.

From Gryphon website: "The Gryphon Ethos remains faithful to the brand’s signature sound of great musical distinction, achieving a veritable musical alchemy with fast transient response and consistent tonal accuracy, regardless of the selected listening level. Perfect harmony alongside often contradictory parameters such as fluid handling of melody and rock-solid positioning in the stereo image is extremely rare, making the Gryphon Ethos an even more remarkable accomplishment, as manufacturers surrender to uninformed consumer pressure to deliver all-in-one “universal” audio and video disc playback."

Ha ha.

Last edited by redfish1901; 12/22/19 11:34 AM.
Re: For all you audiophiles [Re: redfish1901] #2925750 12/22/19 11:39 AM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 2,312
L
LarryK Online Content
2000 Post Club Member
Online Content
2000 Post Club Member
L
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 2,312
Originally Posted by redfish1901
In other news, Stereophile magazine measured Gryphon Audio Designs' new Ethos ($39,000) (https://www.stereophile.com/content/gryphon-ethos-cd-player-da-processor).

It's not any better (in measurements) than any other $100 CD player or DAC. In fact it's quite a bit worse than a good $100 dedicated DAC (like Topping D30).

It looks fancy though. And will definitely impress other audiophiles.

From Gryphon website: "The Gryphon Ethos remains faithful to the brand’s signature sound of great musical distinction, achieving a veritable musical alchemy with fast transient response and consistent tonal accuracy, regardless of the selected listening level. Perfect harmony alongside often contradictory parameters such as fluid handling of melody and rock-solid positioning in the stereo image is extremely rare, making the Gryphon Ethos an even more remarkable accomplishment, as manufacturers surrender to uninformed consumer pressure to deliver all-in-one “universal” audio and video disc playback."

Ha ha.


I didn’t buy their DAC or CD player, I bought their Class A amplifier and their previous generation Gryphon Cantata speakers. They’re better known for their Class A amps and speakers than they are for their CD players or DACs.

I have a relatively cheap old Accuphase DP-65V CD player which I do not use much anymore and a more expensive Aqua Formula DAC, a R2R ladder DAC which I bought used. I save a bundle by buying used components.

How in the world could a manufacturer make any profit on a $100 DAC? I hate the sound of Class D amplifiers, that I know. That Topping DAC seems to have a Class D amp.

Last edited by LarryK; 12/22/19 11:48 AM.

Yamaha U1 Silent Piano
Page 2 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Ken Knapp, Piano World 

What's Hot!!
News from the Piano World
Our January 2020 Newsletter Available Online Now...
Free Piano Newsletter
----------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Shop our Store for Music Lovers!
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Bechstein
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Music rest of Roland LX705: Is it good enough?
by hi-ho - 02/19/20 09:22 AM
Piano Vertical—a Performance Like No Other!
by Tyrone Slothrop - 02/19/20 08:34 AM
Rebuilt Steinways (was)? PFKAS?
by Maestro Lennie - 02/19/20 07:19 AM
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics197,058
Posts2,927,408
Members96,042
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2019 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3