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Re: What does a big grand do for you in your home? [Re: Beemer] #2923926 12/17/19 12:22 PM
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My two cents, which is a bit of a rant.

I believe that having a concert grand or even a semi concert grand in a small appartment makes as much sense as keeping a lion as a pet.
These instruments were designed to fill a hall with thousands of square meters, and thousands of listeners, where even the person in the last row expects to hear the music. And you put this instrument in a room with less than 30 square meters? And try to tone it down, by putting carpets and other silencing furniture? Poor lion on a leash.

I have a Yamaha C2, which is 173 cm long. So not really a big grand. It's a medium grand. And I live in an apartment in a house with 14 housing units. My living room has 24 square meters. When my Yamaha is played in acoustic mode, it can be heard in the entire house. My neighbors made sure I know that. With a bigger grand, the neighbors would probably be blown out of the windows.

A big grand does not belong in a small apartment. It belongs in a hall. Unless the apartment is soundproof.

Rant over.
Maybe I really am just jealous because I can't afford a huge mansion with a big hall with a Bösendorfer 225 or Fazioli F228 or Yamaha DC7 in it, or all of them... wink


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Re: What does a big grand do for you in your home? [Re: Beemer] #2923948 12/17/19 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by patH
I believe that having a concert grand or even a semi concert grand in a small appartment makes as much sense as keeping a lion as a pet.

I like your analogy, Pat! Of course, I've always had the opinion that I would never want an exotic pet that might kill me and eat me at some point. That has happened before to some people in real life, unfortunately.

That thought aside, I can only imagine the challenge of living in a multi-unit flat or apartment with lots of other people living just on the other side of a wall, floor or ceiling. Yet, they still want to enjoy the benefits of owning a real, acoustic piano.

It can be done, and many here have proven that again and again. But still a huge challenge, nonetheless.

Getting back to the idea of acoustic pianos and the volume they can produce, after owning both smaller acoustic pianos and moderately sized acoustic pianos, even the little rascals can squeal pretty loud, when played hard. And, in regards to the larger pianos, along with the volumetric footprint that occurs naturally on a larger piano, there also tends to be more richness and clarity of tone with the larger pianos, base on my limited experience.

Fortunately, I live in a rural area and my closest neighbor is at least 100 yards away (length of a football field in the US), maybe more. My neighbor says he has heard me playing my piano(s) sometimes late in the evening, when sound waves seem to travel better, but he says he always enjoys it. So, I suppose I'm very fortunate in that I can play my pianos to my hearts content anytime of the day or night, without disturbing anyone.

Thing is, one doesn't need a semi-concert grand or a full-size 9 footer to experience the joys of owning and playing a nice piano. There are many options and variations that can be had, and that work, so as not to disturb or disrespect the neighbor's space or privacy.

Just leave the pet lion at the zoo... smile

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: What does a big grand do for you in your home? [Re: Rickster] #2923988 12/17/19 02:23 PM
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Rick - Just my personal thinking but I think your C7 certainly qualifies as a big grand! And one of my personal favorites that I’ve only played but never “yet” owned.

The other challenge of owning a big acoustic piano is where do you place it for everyone’s happiness? Especially if the majority in the household and neighbors with only one wall between don’t play or don’t necessarily approve of our practice methods or repertoire. Plus if you move to a different state for work or retirement you again have to figure out where the piano’s gonna go. I’ve moved in and outta town several times since I bought my first piano and had to have it moved about 30 to 60 miles. In all cases it was a single family home on an acre or more. As they were loading the piano I keep thinking “Why don’t you take up guitar? You can just put it in a nice case and go?” But those thoughts stop as the truck pulls up and my piano comes out safe snuggled in moving blankets.
laugh


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Re: What does a big grand do for you in your home? [Re: Beemer] #2924033 12/17/19 04:13 PM
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A big grand does not belong in a small apartment. It belongs in a hall. Unless the apartment is soundproof. Quote- patH

patH, Many of the semiconcert grands you refer to as "big grands" in your post are scaled for the living room rather than the concert hall. The Bosendorfer VC214 can be even ordered with a choice of quieter hammers.
Fortunately not all apartment buildings conduct sound as readily as yours.
I realize your post is a rant, but it's also not accurate.

Re: What does a big grand do for you in your home? [Re: Beemer] #2924039 12/17/19 05:14 PM
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At 14 years, 7 months and 11 days - my piano continues to inspire me every day I sit down to practice in my 20' X 20' detached home studio. In a way my other two "big grands" - Yamaha C7e & S6 - never did.

Could be my imagination (but I don't think so because I'm pretty critical ) , I hear it getting better with each passing year.

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Re: What does a big grand do for you in your home? [Re: Dave Ferris] #2924040 12/17/19 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Ferris
At 14 years, 7 months and 11 days - my piano continues to inspire me every day I sit down to practice in my 20' X 20' detached home studio. In a way my other two "big grands" - Yamaha C7e & S6 - never did.

Could be my imagination (but I don't think so because I'm pretty critical ) , I hear it getting better with each passing year.


Do you think it could sound better every year because you are more attuned with your piano’s nuances ?

Re: What does a big grand do for you in your home? [Re: Beemer] #2924114 12/17/19 10:38 PM
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Why have a big grand in my home?

1. When I play the lowest notes, there is a note "there" not a bunch of messy overtones every where else but "there." Why others don't or can't hear the importance of this is beyond me. In the 30 plus years that I owned other pianos that's what I craved the most.
2. I love to play it! Every day. Even scales and exercises.
3. It's the centerpiece of the living room. We have no TVs or other electronics in the living area.
4. When we have dinner parties and holiday parties people hang around the piano (or the kitchen!). We sing, play, sometimes the little ones dance, etc. It brings so much joy and people talk about wanting to come back and do more. If a visitor has any exposure to piano I ask them to play it or do a duet with me. They always light up when they do.
5. My wife and my children love to play it.
6. My son's friend came over yesterday with a recording engineer and spent several hours working on his album.
7. The sustain! It seems to ring forever if I want it to.

Now to be honest, I would never have an acoustic piano of any size or type in an apartment. I think that's unfair to your neighbors. There were times in my life that I was in an apartment and I owned digitals and mostly used headphones even with that.

It seems counterproductive to buy a nice big piano and then try and tone it down with piles of pillows, etc. A piano needs to be what it is. I've spent a lot of money on my piano getting it regulated and voiced exactly the way I want it. I can play ppp and you can stand by it and converse while I play. I can also play ff with the windows open and you can hear it halfway down the block.

Finally, I've owned some pianos for years and years and they never seemed to get any better smile I needed a piano that was much better than I was in order to stay inspired.

Re: What does a big grand do for you in your home? [Re: Beemer] #2924128 12/17/19 11:41 PM
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Wow so jealous.. couldn’t agree more . I was a guitarist for 62 years and did not discover piano to age 72. But I hear what you hear. Blessed to have a nice Kawai digital and funds to study w a master, but everything you said about the strings is dead on .
My wife can not grasp my wanting a real grand piano in my music room taking away rehearsal space from guitar. I don’t care much anymore about Guitar.Pale next to piano. All money I make on guitar goes to piano lessons.
I think she may give in soon ad she know I can sell a few of my guitars and get a grand . My teacher has same w this huge K Kawai in middle of living room . You both are so blessed to be able to hear those deep strings. Love lessons there too.

Re: What does a big grand do for you in your home? [Re: Beemer] #2924148 12/18/19 02:54 AM
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Apart from the sound, the touch of the keys should make a noticeable difference, e.g. more responsive enabling playing faster repetitive notes and more key travel to enabling more tonal and dynamic ranges.

The una coda pedal works differently to that of an upright too, which adds to the tonal and dynamic range. Then there's the sostenuto pedal which is interesting to experiment and play with, but hardly used for actual playing.

I suspect the different layout between an upright and a grand would also make a difference to the resonance too?

I have had my Kawai RX-2 (175cm) for 10 years now. It has served my needs so far. Although, once in a while, I itch to browse around for a possible future upgrade.

In comparison, my husband is not fussed with my piano, my practising, my going to lessons on the weekends etc. I have no complaints from my neighbour even when I practise late at night or early in the morning. We live in a detached house with plenty of space between houses. Theoretically, there's nothing stopping me upgrading to a better piano (at least 180cm) other than my conscience: until the mortgage is paid off, no big purchases!

My Kawai RX-2 will have to last for another 8-10 years. Perhaps I'll even wait longer until my retirement before I get myself a nice present?





Last edited by Tubbie0075; 12/18/19 03:02 AM.

Be yourself

Re: What does a big grand do for you in your home? [Re: Beemer] #2924171 12/18/19 05:57 AM
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I have never believed in the "piano is too big for a room" axiom, having spent a lot of time in tiny practice rooms at the conservatory - and those with bigger/longer pianos were just much more fun to play and also allowed you to play with your own sound quality, especially in the bass section.

Which is why, when I got my first well paid job, bought a veritable concert grand, a Yamaha CF-II, directly from Yamaha. This piano was in a really small room, about 4 x 6 metres (12 x 18 ft.) with wooden panels throughout the whole room, i.e. floor, walls and a very low ceiling. I still remember the first few notes I played when I came home from a business trip and the piano was delivered during my absence.

Hard to describe, but in he first few seconds it became abundantly clear that I'd never go back to a piano smaller that a B i.e. 211cm or 6,92257 ft.

Yes, the sound can be massive, which is the point of a concert grand after all, but also it could play consistently more softly than any smaller grand I've played before. I had a technician coming over, slightly mellowing down the sound through voicing and I still vividly remember the time I spent with this piano with great pleasure.

Today I have a Steinway B in a rooftop apartment in a slightly larger room with a really high ceiling and if I were ever to trade the old beauty for something more modern it would either be a Bechstein C 234 or a Steinway D. Since I have only two neighbours and none of them ever complained about my piano, I am aware to be in a privileged position.

It's the sound quality that defines a piano, not its sheer volume. The latter can easily be mellowed down by voicing and/acoustic dampers, but you can't magically transform the tiny bass strings of a baby grand with their ugly inharmonicities into a beautiful grand.

Now back to practicing 'Le Gibet' with its organ like b-flats that give me shivers of delight.

Re: What does a big grand do for you in your home? [Re: Hotstrings] #2924182 12/18/19 06:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Hotstrings
Wow so jealous.. couldn’t agree more . I was a guitarist for 62 years and did not discover piano to age 72. But I hear what you hear. Blessed to have a nice Kawai digital and funds to study w a master, but everything you said about the strings is dead on .
My wife can not grasp my wanting a real grand piano in my music room taking away rehearsal space from guitar. I don’t care much anymore about Guitar.Pale next to piano. All money I make on guitar goes to piano lessons.
I think she may give in soon ad she know I can sell a few of my guitars and get a grand . My teacher has same w this huge K Kawai in middle of living room . You both are so blessed to be able to hear those deep strings. Love lessons there too.


Interesting post. May I ask what it is about piano that has you so hooked in comparison to your years of guitar playing?


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Re: What does a big grand do for you in your home? [Re: Beemer] #2924204 12/18/19 08:21 AM
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Well, what I can say is that after playing a good 7' or 9' Grand, it's hard to be satisfied with a smaller piano. Easily, you get addicted to that big sound, tone and touch...


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Re: What does a big grand do for you in your home? [Re: Beemer] #2924397 12/18/19 03:37 PM
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Beemer we are drowning with all the big grands in this thread !
Although I could easily have bought a baby grand with what I paid for
my upright .I chose a piano whose tone creative and rich .
However I love the tone of my piano and the response.The bass
and the treble is remarkable and the individual notes resonate beautifully !
I am thankful.

Last edited by Lady Bird; 12/18/19 03:43 PM. Reason: Missing word
Re: What does a big grand do for you in your home? [Re: Lady Bird] #2924447 12/18/19 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Beemer we are drowning with all the big grands in this thread !
Although I could easily have bought a baby grand with what I paid for
my upright .I chose a piano whose tone creative and rich .
However I love the tone of my piano and the response.The bass
and the treble is remarkable and the individual notes resonate beautifully !
I am thankful.

I too am thankful for all my blessings and ecstatic with 190cm.

But whenever I sit down at a really large grand and hear the sound from the big soundboard and longer strings and feel the dynamic range control in those long keys, it makes me feel like a concert pianist, or a millionaire who can afford a concert grand and the huge house it requires.


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Re: What does a big grand do for you in your home? [Re: j&j] #2924475 12/18/19 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by j&j
Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Beemer we are drowning with all the big grands in this thread !
Although I could easily have bought a baby grand with what I paid for
my upright .I chose a piano whose tone creative and rich .
However I love the tone of my piano and the response.The bass
and the treble is remarkable and the individual notes resonate beautifully !
I am thankful.

I too am thankful for all my blessings and ecstatic with 190cm.

But whenever I sit down at a really large grand and hear the sound from the big soundboard and longer strings and feel the dynamic range control in those long keys, it makes me feel like a concert pianist, or a millionaire who can afford a concert grand and the huge house it requires.

Sorry for trying to steal some limelight!

Re: What does a big grand do for you in your home? [Re: Beemer] #2924489 12/18/19 07:33 PM
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It really depends on your priorities. i once had a lovely older customer who lived in at best a very modest home that looked to be about 900 sq ft. He had inherited the house from his parents and had lived there his entire life. He was a librarian. No rugs on the floors, the kitchen had the original cabinets from the 1940's. In the living room along with one very tattered chair was a Steinway B. He told me it was the only thing in his life he had been tempted to buy. I was there working on it almost an entire day and at lunch he offered to buy my lunch at the local Captain D's because they had a special lunch for seniors. One of my favorite customers. That piano sounded great in there.


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Re: What does a big grand do for you in your home? [Re: Beemer] #2924498 12/18/19 07:57 PM
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Hi Sally
Heartwarming story but I hope we will all remember that not everyone can set priorities to have a wonderful grand. Kids that need daycare? College? Underemployed? Small living space? Those are only a few of the reasons you can’t make it work—- no matter your desires.

Sometimes we forget that there are many in the world that are just not as fortunate. No one should ever feel they are inferior because of the instrument they own or feel like they need to trade up to ‘better’ in order to keep up with the Joneses. IMHO of course.

Re: What does a big grand do for you in your home? [Re: Beemer] #2924514 12/18/19 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by dogperson
Heartwarming story but I hope we will all remember that not everyone can set priorities to have a wonderful grand. Kids that need daycare? College? Underemployed? Small living space? Those are only a few of the reasons you can’t make it work—- no matter your desires.

Sometimes we forget that there are many in the world that are just not as fortunate. No one should ever feel they are inferior because of the instrument they own or feel like they need to trade up to ‘better’ in order to keep up with the Joneses. IMHO of course.

What, you mean not keeping up with the Joneses piano? Where's the fun in that? smile

Just kidding, dogperson. You are absolutely right, and I agree 100%.

I've read here on this very forum that, quite often, even some of the most famous and successful pianists and performing artists own a more modest piano, and it works just fine for them. Plus, they get to play the big ones often enough in their work/career.

Of course, the title of this thread was about big grands in the home, and I don't think it was meant to belittle or disparage those who may own a not-so-big piano, whether upright or grand.

I think the most important factor is to enjoy the piano you have and can afford, whether big or small, acoustic or digital.

Merry Christmas to All!! :-)

Rick



Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: What does a big grand do for you in your home? [Re: Lady Bird] #2924536 12/18/19 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Originally Posted by j&j
Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Beemer we are drowning with all the big grands in this thread !
Although I could easily have bought a baby grand with what I paid for
my upright .I chose a piano whose tone creative and rich .
However I love the tone of my piano and the response.The bass
and the treble is remarkable and the individual notes resonate beautifully !
I am thankful.

I too am thankful for all my blessings and ecstatic with 190cm.

But whenever I sit down at a really large grand and hear the sound from the big soundboard and longer strings and feel the dynamic range control in those long keys, it makes me feel like a concert pianist, or a millionaire who can afford a concert grand and the huge house it requires.

Sorry for trying to steal some limelight!

The OP requested owners of high end uprights get involved as well, hence my post.

Last edited by Lady Bird; 12/18/19 10:16 PM. Reason: Missing word
Re: What does a big grand do for you in your home? [Re: Beemer] #2924538 12/18/19 10:27 PM
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Keeping up with the Joneses surely I need a Steinways or perhaps a Fazioli !
In some communities it no doubt would be a Yamaha.

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