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Re: Old german uprights: Sauter 118 R2 vs Pfeiffer 110 [Re: Tony124] #2920907 12/08/19 09:24 AM
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Congratulations on your purchase.

I would not take delivery until you can confirm the problems you noticed with the action are solved at the dealer. The reasoning of the salesperson as to the origin of the problem is most likely not correct at all. If you don't know much about pianos, and it's an older used piano, I still advise a tech inspection prior to sale. Most pianists know nothing about how the "guts" of a piano work. They only know touch and tone, which is of course really important, but that's like trusting a car without having it inspected by a mechanic because a taxi driver says it seems very good.


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Re: Old german uprights: Sauter 118 R2 vs Pfeiffer 110 [Re: j&j] #2921142 12/09/19 03:34 AM
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Originally Posted by j&j
Congratulations on your new to you Sauter upright. A new piano in the home is a wonderful Christmas present. Please post pictures when the Sauter has been delivered. There are several Sauter owners here on PianoWorld who sing the praises of their Sauter’s voice and high quality construction and materials, so I’m confident your family will be thrilled. Congratulations again!

thank you! The piano should be delivered on Wednesday, I will post some pictures.

Re: Old german uprights: Sauter 118 R2 vs Pfeiffer 110 [Re: Tony124] #2921173 12/09/19 05:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Tony124
There were one or two hammers which didn't return fully to the original position after playing, the salesman said that it might be caused by the low temperature in the shop (about 18 degrees celsius, isn't it dangerous for the pianos?).
I suppose that is a non-issue if the instrument has not been payed for a longer time. After a few minutes of playing all the hammers should properly return to their rest position without any problem. The salesman's explanation is likely to be nonsense (and a temperature of 18 deg C is definitely not "dangerous" to a piano).

Re: Old german uprights: Sauter 118 R2 vs Pfeiffer 110 [Re: Tony124] #2921192 12/09/19 08:15 AM
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Congratulations for your acquisition. Sauter pianos are excellent instruments. Wish a long and happy musical life with your new piano.


Fluxo

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Re: Old german uprights: Sauter 118 R2 vs Pfeiffer 110 [Re: Fluxo] #2921194 12/09/19 08:17 AM
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Of course: welcome to the Sauter's ownners clube.


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Re: Old german uprights: Sauter 118 R2 vs Pfeiffer 110 [Re: Tony124] #2921199 12/09/19 08:34 AM
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Congratulations on your new piano!



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Re: Old german uprights: Sauter 118 R2 vs Pfeiffer 110 [Re: Tony124] #2921286 12/09/19 01:04 PM
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From one Sauter owner to another ,congratulations and Best Wishes !

Re: Old german uprights: Sauter 118 R2 vs Pfeiffer 110 [Re: Tony124] #2921804 12/11/19 06:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Tony124
Hi all,

we visited the shop to see the Sauter piano today. The piano looks in very good condition, under very close visual inspection it seems to me (a non-pianist) that everything is intact. There were one or two hammers which didn't return fully to the original position after playing, the salesman said that it might be caused by the low temperature in the shop (about 18 degrees celsius, isn't it dangerous for the pianos?). The salesman promised that they would do a small overhaul of the mechanics before shipping, which should take care of the above problem. And piano comes with 2 years warranty. That's from my part.

My friend who is a pianist and who also went the a very similar route to purchase a piano a few years ago came with us today. She said this is a very good piano, and an inspection of independent piano technician is not necessary.

My daughter played the piano for a while and also likes the piano.

So I have decided to buy this one.

Thank you very much for your comments, they are very nice, helpful and encouraging. They helped me a lot to make the uneasy decision.



Going for the Sauter in general was a good choice, as they truly have a fine pedigree. However as it dates from 1979, I would definitely have found a technician (not associated with the piano store) to check it over and to give a detailed written report, especially given the price you paid - which appears reasonable.
Even if your friend is an excellent pianist and appears to have given the thumbs-up, I maintain that the advise from a good, independant piano tech is invaluable. I almost made a similar mistake once with a good looking and superb sounding Grotrian Steinweg grand for which I'd paid 14k euros, and when it was delivered, to my horror it was worse than when I'd auditioned it. The dealer although relatively well known, was a 'furtive' sort of fellow, and hadn't provided some of the important information I'd requested. I was lucky, as after my insistance, the piano was taken away and I was totally refunded. And purchased a wonderful new Sauter.
With your Sauter, I note that the salesman promised that they would "do a small overhaul of the mechanics before shipping, which should take care of the above problem." I agree it should (2 hammers not returning fully is normally no big deal), but in your case I also would have signed the purchase agreement with a mention 'subject to the piano being well regulated, with at least one complimentary in-house tuning within the first month of delivery'.
As for the salesman inferring that a store temperature of 18deg C could be detrimental to the piano, I would suggest that he may be more suited as a used-car salesman, as so many are notorious for giving misleading information.

Having said the above, as you are being given a 2 year warranty, you should be very happy with your Sauter once reglated correctly, delivered and tuned after it has settled-in for a few weeks. Love to see a few photos too asap.
I wish you a warm welcome to the exclusive PW forum Sauter owners 'club'. I'm still cherishing the love affair with mine.

Last edited by Tweedpipe; 12/11/19 06:22 AM.

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C Major scale (r/h only - starting with the pinkie finger)......

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Yours sincerely,
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Re: Old german uprights: Sauter 118 R2 vs Pfeiffer 110 [Re: Tony124] #2921899 12/11/19 11:16 AM
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Dear all,

the piano has arrived. I took some pictures of it as promised.

https://imgur.com/a/Z5ZJSGN

[sorry I don't know how to insert the images directly here]

My daughter seems to like it a lot, she kept playing for long and we parents also like the sound of the piano too.

Re. the inspection by an independent piano technician: I agree with all your suggestions and I planned to do that, too. But then when my friend suggested it's not necessary, I didn't want to make her sad by not listening to her suggestion. I know there is a small risk, but I took the risk anyway.

The salesman told me to put some rug under the piano, because we have floor heating.

thanks again for your nice comments/congrats.

Regards,
Tony

Re: Old german uprights: Sauter 118 R2 vs Pfeiffer 110 [Re: Tony124] #2921902 12/11/19 11:18 AM
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Very nice!

I like wood coloured piano's.

Re: Old german uprights: Sauter 118 R2 vs Pfeiffer 110 [Re: Tony124] #2922043 12/11/19 05:01 PM
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Thanks for the pictures ! A really nice little piano.I suppose it is about 44 or 46 inches ?
I cannot comment on the action except to say the hammers look fine (to me)

Re: Old german uprights: Sauter 118 R2 vs Pfeiffer 110 [Re: Tony124] #2922047 12/11/19 05:17 PM
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Sweet!


Yamaha U1 Silent Piano
Re: Old german uprights: Sauter 118 R2 vs Pfeiffer 110 [Re: Tony124] #2922057 12/11/19 05:53 PM
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Really pretty and looks great. I do love natural wood pianos. I did get a “may contain adult content” as I went to view the pictures but saw everything seemed G rated. I wonder if it was the naked hammers? grin
Congratulations!


J & J
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Re: Old german uprights: Sauter 118 R2 vs Pfeiffer 110 [Re: j&j] #2922068 12/11/19 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by j&j
Really pretty and looks great. I do love natural wood pianos. I did get a “may contain adult content” as I went to view the pictures but saw everything seemed G rated. I wonder if it was the naked hammers? grin
Congratulations!

Yes I know what you mean ! I actually put my dark glasses on !

Re: Old german uprights: Sauter 118 R2 vs Pfeiffer 110 [Re: Lady Bird] #2922178 12/12/19 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Thanks for the pictures ! A really nice little piano.I suppose it is about 44 or 46 inches ?
I cannot comment on the action except to say the hammers look fine (to me)


yes it's 46 inches (118 cm).

Re: Old german uprights: Sauter 118 R2 vs Pfeiffer 110 [Re: Tony124] #2923005 12/14/19 11:08 PM
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OK nice size ! I am glad you found a good piano !

Re: Old german uprights: Sauter 118 R2 vs Pfeiffer 110 [Re: Tony124] #2923020 12/15/19 02:34 AM
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[quote=Tony124]Dear all,

Re. the inspection by an independent piano technician: I agree with all your suggestions and I planned to do that, too. But then when my friend suggested it's not necessary, I didn't want to make her sad by not listening to her suggestion. I know there is a small risk, but I took the risk anyway.

Tony I wish you all the luck with your new piano and the enjoyment of hearing your daughter play.

That said, for other future potential buyers of used pianos here on PW, over and over I hear the sound advice "have a tech check it out before buying". Sounder advice could not be given especially for a 40 yr old used piano already exhibiting an action problem. Did the friend mentioned above at least check out the felt action centers on other notes that may be on they way to being compromised (fast and easy for a tech to do). A sticking key on a used piano can be the sign of other beginning latent action problems and repinning is labor intensive.

Last edited by Sanfrancisco; 12/15/19 02:37 AM.
Re: Old german uprights: Sauter 118 R2 vs Pfeiffer 110 [Re: Tony124] #2923164 12/15/19 01:58 PM
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I have unfortunately seen more than a few scenarios that sound similar to Tony's above involving a used showroom piano with a sticky or stuck key. Since the one thing any piano shopper will notice is a key that won't play, why does the dealer not correct it first and not waste valuable floor space? Well the answer often is "it can't be easily permanently fixed" not without a lot of labor or even replacing the action. Both often are not economically viable (the piano isn't worth it). So what the dealer does is a quick, temporary fix (maybe a squirt of lube here and there). When they find a customer that likes the piano except for the sticky key(s) they promise to fix it after the customer buys it and they offer a warranty. The bottom line is the action will never consistently perform under this situation. The dealer will keep sending someone out to patch it up under the warranty if you're lucky.
Two possible solutions- don't buy it until it's fixed or better use a tech to evaluate it before you buy.

Last edited by Sanfrancisco; 12/15/19 01:59 PM.
Re: Old german uprights: Sauter 118 R2 vs Pfeiffer 110 [Re: Tony124] #2923243 12/15/19 05:23 PM
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Pianos have a harder time coping with HVAC than they do with cold rooms, which were the norm in the time they were invented. Looking at paintings from the 1600's, what strikes the eye is how overdressed people look. Why? Well, sure, they were getting their portrait (or at least, portrayal) painted, and may well have been at a fancy party or soiree, but central Europe in winter is good and cold and those fine interiors were lighted by candles and heated by wood fireplaces. Even the wealthy did not heat the mansion overnight.

But 18 C is about 64 F. Even 16 C is almost 61 F. I suppose some people might find it on the cool side for playing, but the piano shouldn't be seizing up.

I have read about a case where a good piano was transported in an unheated truck in midwinter, over the mountains where the cold is especially biting. It was seen that there was some damage to the finish, and it was speculated that it was delivered and set up in a warm, modern room too fast, and that allowing it to warm up more gradually may have prevented this.

It would be an unusual story. It's not cold, as such, that challenges pianos as much as rapid and drastic changes in humidity. The cold challenges pianists! I've played a piano that was held in an unheated livingroom for quite awhile before I bought it. Cold fingers are just murder!

I would like to thank Tweedpipe for giving the speech about hiring a tech to inspect before buying any used piano. Condition is king; obeying what may be seen as social pressure, is not king. The salesperson, the buyer's friend who came along, are not going to be there when the unnoticed problem shows up; you will have no recourse to such. Good call, too, about having any agreement about a "little overhaul" or anything else written on the face of the signed sales contract. I would add, be sure the serial numbers match, and check again before the piano comes off the truck.

Many people come here to weep when the piano fever cools and the ugly and costly flaws of a precipitate piano purchase become apparent. The impartial technician's inspection can save a buyer from an ocean of tears.

Best of wishes to our OP; what a happy time of year to have a new piano in the house!


Clef

Re: Old german uprights: Sauter 118 R2 vs Pfeiffer 110 [Re: Tony124] #2923272 12/15/19 07:03 PM
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Is there some confusion here? The piano was already delivered

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