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Adult beginner - digital piano recommendation #2922296 12/12/19 03:22 PM
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finch42 Offline OP
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Hi everyone, I wanted to learn to play the piano since I know my mind. Instead I spent a few years behind the drums when I was a child but now I think it is time to follow my destiny smile. I like fancy gears I usually buy decent stuffs eventhough most of them are overkill at the beginning. Same applies to piano. Very likely I'll buy a good one eventhough probably beginners do not start with fancy toys. These are the ones I am comtemplating:

  • Kawai MP11SE
  • Roland RD-2000
  • Yamaha CVP 701 - but this looks an pretty old model, maybe there are newer/better for the same money
  • or something else


I want to play the piano but sometimes probably just have fun so the last 2 might give me some boost during "that difficult time" every learner can face with (demotivation...). In terms of piano, action... could you recommend me which to buy?

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Re: Adult beginner - digital piano recommendation [Re: finch42] #2922309 12/12/19 04:38 PM
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In the something else category: Kawai CA-78. I have the CA-58, which is good, but if I had to do it again I would buy the CA-78. Very good action, good onboard sound, solid cabinet, and in Europe reasonably priced. It is a lot of money if you are not certain you are serious about learning to play. But if you are, I would invest in a DP with good action and sound from the beginning. I have been playing for 1.5-2 years now, so also a beginner. Started with a Yamaha P-115, which I already traded in for the CA-58 after half a year...


Kawai CA58
Re: Adult beginner - digital piano recommendation [Re: finch42] #2922310 12/12/19 04:41 PM
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"Overkill at the beginning" indeed laugh The Kawai and Roland are somewhat similar in features and price. The Yamaha you list is more of an arranger, meaning it has a lot of non-piano functionality like drums, other instruments, multitrack recording and editing, etc. If you're just looking for a piano the Yamaha CP-88 would be the "closest" match to the other two you have listed, which are both stage pianos.

Personally, unless you really needed the features and portability (which I'm not sure is important given your listing the CVP 701) I'd look at the mid range console pianos if you want to spend in the 2500 USD range.


Now learning: Chopin C# minor Nocturne (posth) and C minor Prelude (big chords), Mozart Sonata in C K. 545
Instruments: Yamaha N1X, Kawai ES110, Roland GO:PIANO
Re: Adult beginner - digital piano recommendation [Re: finch42] #2922312 12/12/19 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by finch42
Hi everyone, I wanted to learn to play the piano since I know my mind. Instead I spent a few years behind the drums when I was a child but now I think it is time to follow my destiny smile. I like fancy gears I usually buy decent stuffs eventhough most of them are overkill at the beginning. Same applies to piano. Very likely I'll buy a good one eventhough probably beginners do not start with fancy toys. These are the ones I am comtemplating:

  • Kawai MP11SE
  • Roland RD-2000
  • Yamaha CVP 701 - but this looks an pretty old model, maybe there are newer/better for the same money
  • or something else


I want to play the piano but sometimes probably just have fun so the last 2 might give me some boost during "that difficult time" every learner can face with (demotivation...). In terms of piano, action... could you recommend me which to buy?



Where in Germany are you living? Having a RD-2000 here. I seem to want a real grand instead, with retrofitting and a custom made keybed, that match my hand size.
When that happens, I may no longer have need for the RD-2000. Didn't own it for too long, maybe less than a year?
Can't tell an accurate date, as I have not yet found what I was searching for.

Re: Adult beginner - digital piano recommendation [Re: finch42] #2922323 12/12/19 05:31 PM
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The CVP701 was released in 2015 ... so it's not **that** old. But it's a poor value. You pay a lot for the bells and whistles of an "ensemble" piano.
Take away those bells/whistles from the 701 and what's left is Yamaha's bottom-of-the-line Clavinova ... and a very high price.
A poor value. I'm not a fan of the CVP-series pianos.

The MP11SE and RD2000 are slab/stage pianos, not consoles. If that suits you these are very good choices. They get a lot of good mentions here.

But as a beginner ... a first question is: Will you have a teacher? If you don't then I would not choose any of these pianos. You stand a good chance of giving up the piano. You would not be the first!

So I'd choose a unit under $1000 ... knowing that my potential loss is the difference between the initial cost and the used-market selling price. That loss cannot exceed $1000, right, and will likely be much less.
Contrast that with the thousands you'd lose on a precipitously depreciating expensive piano.

But if you do stick to the piano (with a teacher I hope) then buy the best you can afford.
Originally Posted by finch42
Hi everyone, I wanted to learn to play the piano since I know my mind. Instead I spent a few years behind the drums when I was a child but now I think it is time to follow my destiny smile. I like fancy gears I usually buy decent stuffs eventhough most of them are overkill at the beginning. Same applies to piano. Very likely I'll buy a good one even though probably beginners do not start with fancy toys. These are the ones I am comtemplating:

  • Kawai MP11SE
  • Roland RD-2000
  • Yamaha CVP 701 - but this looks an pretty old model, maybe there are newer/better for the same money
  • or something else


I want to play the piano but sometimes probably just have fun so the last 2 might give me some boost during "that difficult time" every learner can face with (demotivation...). In terms of piano, action... could you recommend me which to buy?

Re: Adult beginner - digital piano recommendation [Re: MacMacMac] #2922324 12/12/19 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
The CVP701 was released in 2015 ... so it's not **that** old. But it's a poor value. You pay a lot for the bells and whistles of an "ensemble" piano.
Take away those bells/whistles from the 701 and what's left is Yamaha's bottom-of-the-line Clavinova ... and a very high price.
A poor value. I'm not a fan of the CVP-series pianos.

The MP11SE and RD2000 are slab/stage pianos, not consoles. If that suits you these are very good choices. They get a lot of good mentions here.

But as a beginner ... a first question is: Will you have a teacher? If you don't then I would not choose any of these pianos. You stand a good chance of giving up the piano. You would not be the first!

So I'd choose a unit under $1000 ... knowing that my potential loss is the difference between the initial cost and the used-market selling price. That loss cannot exceed $1000, right, and will likely be much less.
Contrast that with the thousands you'd lose on a precipitously depreciating expensive piano.

But if you do stick to the piano (with a teacher I hope) then buy the best you can afford.

+1 on all points.


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Re: Adult beginner - digital piano recommendation [Re: finch42] #2922331 12/12/19 06:06 PM
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A guy in the LA area was trying to sell his brand new CVP-701 not long ago. He started out asking $2900 for it and kept lowering... I think it sold for $2k so he lost $2k before even playing the thing. I was tempted by the "bargain" but ended up buying a MP11se because I hated the action on the CVPs.

Someone mentioned the CA78; I think that's a great choice if you just want to concentrate on learning how to play the piano and don't want to bother with buying a stand, speakers... the CA78 is a great choice!

Re: Adult beginner - digital piano recommendation [Re: finch42] #2922355 12/12/19 07:24 PM
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+1 for the CA-78. It has amazing keys. I've played it about 6 times, and every time I get even more impressed with the key textures (especially on the ebonies).

Until the new flagship Roland FP model is released, the CA-78 is the clear benchmark in that area of the market.

Last edited by Burkie; 12/12/19 07:26 PM.
Re: Adult beginner - digital piano recommendation [Re: finch42] #2922376 12/12/19 08:21 PM
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Thanks everyone for the great help. Yes, I am in the search of a teacher although I want to progress alone too. CA-78 unfortunately in my country is out of budget. There was a good discount on the RD-2000 a few weeks ago but I was still thinking instead of actioning smile. I ruled out CVP-701 then. I read a lot of good reviews about the MP11SE in the past couple of months so that one seems to be a good candidate. Yamaha CP-88 could be an option too. About these 3 (MP11SE, Yamaha CP-88, RD-2000) speaking of learning to play to piano am I correct when I say more pianists like MP11SE then the others? RD-2000 could be good choice for pianist "minded" people too? Mobility is not a requirement but large cabinets like pianos may not be ideal regarding the space I have in my apartment smile.

Re: Adult beginner - digital piano recommendation [Re: finch42] #2922389 12/12/19 09:08 PM
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Hello finch42, welcome to the forum.

Originally Posted by finch42
CA-78 unfortunately in my country is out of budget.


May I ask where you are based, please?

Originally Posted by finch42
About these 3 (MP11SE, Yamaha CP-88, RD-2000) speaking of learning to play to piano am I correct when I say more pianists like MP11SE then the others? RD-2000 could be good choice for pianist "minded" people too?


The RD-2000 has far more sounds and features than the MP11SE, which in my opinion, is perhaps a more piano-focussed instrument. Many players believe Kawai's "Grand Feel" wooden-key keyboard actions are the most authentic, however Roland also has its plaudits. The CP88 is perhaps the least acoustic piano-oriented instrument of the three (even though it shares a similar interface to the MP11SE...), and arguably geared more to towards gigging players who would otherwise opt for a Nord.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: Adult beginner - digital piano recommendation [Re: finch42] #2922420 12/12/19 11:33 PM
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Finch,

If you're serious about learning how to play the piano, do yourself a huge favor and concentrate more on getting the best action and not worry much about having 999 other sounds or rhythms. You can always buy an arranger keyboard if you want to experiment with rhythms or other sounds. Yamaha has decent arranger keyboards starting at $250. I sold my Korg Kronos 88 and bought the MP11se mainly for its great action; for rhythms and thousands of other sounds, I have a Yamaha Tyros 5. You don't really want to play organ on a piano action anyway. Best of luck!

Re: Adult beginner - digital piano recommendation [Re: MacMacMac] #2922432 12/13/19 01:16 AM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
But as a beginner ... a first question is: Will you have a teacher?


Important point indeed. I would not spend all my money on the fanciest piano, and then have nothing left for a teacher. Especially as a beginner, you will benefit a lot from a good teacher. I initially started with an online course, that was a mistake.


Kawai CA58
Re: Adult beginner - digital piano recommendation [Re: finch42] #2922440 12/13/19 02:42 AM
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Originally Posted by finch42
Thanks everyone for the great help. Yes, I am in the search of a teacher although I want to progress alone too. CA-78 unfortunately in my country is out of budget. There was a good discount on the RD-2000 a few weeks ago but I was still thinking instead of actioning smile. I ruled out CVP-701 then. I read a lot of good reviews about the MP11SE in the past couple of months so that one seems to be a good candidate. Yamaha CP-88 could be an option too. About these 3 (MP11SE, Yamaha CP-88, RD-2000) speaking of learning to play to piano am I correct when I say more pianists like MP11SE then the others? RD-2000 could be good choice for pianist "minded" people too? Mobility is not a requirement but large cabinets like pianos may not be ideal regarding the space I have in my apartment smile.


RD-2000 and CP-88 are not in the same league as MP11SE.

-Among these 3, CP-88 has the worst action and MP11SE has the most realistic action. When I say realistic, it means MP11SE's action is close to a Kawai's grand piano action. It has the exact same mechanism as a grand piano action. Full length (a bit shorter) keys.

-Yamaha CP-88... has a degenerate, folding action. It's unclear whos idea was to demolish the original NWX action but, Yamaha is full of asshats so it's a no surprise. It's a fossil sampler with new samples shoved in it, and refaced control surface. The only good sounding thing about CP-88 is the new samples. The effects are 30 years old and Yamaha was reluctant in introducing anything new in this keyboard. Effect-wise sounds awful in general.

- RD-2000 also has a folding action, which is close to a non-existing piano action. It's cool though. Feels nice. But not real.

-Sound-wise, RD-2000 is a fossil but a level better than CP-88. Everything in it sounds like... Roland. The only things that sound good are Piano, Rhodes, Organs and classic/jazzy sounds like these. The rest are pile of samples from decades ago that don't even sound as good as a cheap PSR-S670. They are there for the sake of being there!

-MP11SE has a pretty good piano emulator. Boots up super quick and it is so good that "I will never use a VST again" (if you know where this phrase comes from). It has the best action. It looks damn good and the major sounds in it are far better than RD-2000 and without a doubt, it's miles above CP-88 in every single aspect of an instrument.

I see you're leaning towards MP11SE as well. It's the best among other choices you have in my opinion.


Kawai MP7SE, Yamaha MOTF XF6, Yamaha WX5, Yamaha Pacifica 112v
Re: Adult beginner - digital piano recommendation [Re: finch42] #2922446 12/13/19 03:28 AM
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Abdol, with the greatest respect, I think you're being a little harsh on the Yamaha and Roland instruments...

I personally believe that the MP11SE is the most "acoustic piano-like" of the three stage pianos, however I still think that the RD-2000 and CP-88 are great instruments that players of every ability can and do enjoy!

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: Adult beginner - digital piano recommendation [Re: Kawai James] #2922448 12/13/19 03:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Abdol, with the greatest respect, I think you're being a little harsh on the Yamaha and Roland instruments...


It is his style. We'll have to get used to it. He is often right though, but not always wink


Kawai CA58
Re: Adult beginner - digital piano recommendation [Re: MacMacMac] #2922583 12/13/19 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
The CVP701 was released in 2015 ... so it's not **that** old. But it's a poor value. You pay a lot for the bells and whistles of an "ensemble" piano.
Take away those bells/whistles from the 701 and what's left is Yamaha's bottom-of-the-line Clavinova ... and a very high price.
A poor value. I'm not a fan of the CVP-series pianos.

The MP11SE and RD2000 are slab/stage pianos, not consoles. If that suits you these are very good choices. They get a lot of good mentions here.

But as a beginner ... a first question is: Will you have a teacher? If you don't then I would not choose any of these pianos. You stand a good chance of giving up the piano. You would not be the first!

So I'd choose a unit under $1000 ... knowing that my potential loss is the difference between the initial cost and the used-market selling price. That loss cannot exceed $1000, right, and will likely be much less.
Contrast that with the thousands you'd lose on a precipitously depreciating expensive piano.

But if you do stick to the piano (with a teacher I hope) then buy the best you can afford.
Originally Posted by finch42
Hi everyone, I wanted to learn to play the piano since I know my mind. Instead I spent a few years behind the drums when I was a child but now I think it is time to follow my destiny smile. I like fancy gears I usually buy decent stuffs eventhough most of them are overkill at the beginning. Same applies to piano. Very likely I'll buy a good one even though probably beginners do not start with fancy toys. These are the ones I am comtemplating:

  • Kawai MP11SE
  • Roland RD-2000
  • Yamaha CVP 701 - but this looks an pretty old model, maybe there are newer/better for the same money
  • or something else


I want to play the piano but sometimes probably just have fun so the last 2 might give me some boost during "that difficult time" every learner can face with (demotivation...). In terms of piano, action... could you recommend me which to buy?



+1. Very good advice to follow.


Carlos Marques
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Re: Adult beginner - digital piano recommendation [Re: pianogabe] #2922586 12/13/19 01:51 PM
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Well ... even a stopped clock is right sometimes.
Originally Posted by pianogabe
Originally Posted by Kawai James
I think you're being a little harsh on the Yamaha and Roland instruments...
He is often right though, but not always wink

Re: Adult beginner - digital piano recommendation [Re: MacMacMac] #2922594 12/13/19 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Well ... even a stopped clock is right sometimes.
Originally Posted by pianogabe
Originally Posted by Kawai James
I think you're being a little harsh on the Yamaha and Roland instruments...
He is often right though, but not always wink

Not just sometimes... Exactly two times a day. So, do you mean that he can be right just for 2 seconds a day and during the other 86398 seconds he is always wrong? whome

Re: Adult beginner - digital piano recommendation [Re: magicpiano] #2922604 12/13/19 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by magicpiano
Not just sometimes... Exactly two times a day. So, do you mean that he can be right just for 2 seconds a day and during the other 86398 seconds he is always wrong? whome

Look at it more positively. We're an international forum. A stopped clock is right in two time zones somewhere in the world every hour. confused


Kawai CA58
Re: Adult beginner - digital piano recommendation [Re: pianogabe] #2922620 12/13/19 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by pianogabe
Originally Posted by magicpiano
Not just sometimes... Exactly two times a day. So, do you mean that he can be right just for 2 seconds a day and during the other 86398 seconds he is always wrong? whome

Look at it more positively. We're an international forum. A stopped clock is right in two time zones somewhere in the world every hour. confused


I'm very offended by your offensive posts grin

Is the accuracy of your clocks less than 1ms?

Last edited by Abdol; 12/13/19 03:09 PM.

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