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Originally Posted by CyberGene
^ That’s an interesting discovery. It means only the resonances can be used separately as we discussed in another thread, say use the samples from a sample-based VST and the resonances from Pianoteq. But they need to expose such a functionality I guess.
If you mean to overlap sympathetic resonances from Pianoteq with normal notes played by another VST, yes, probably you could use them if there were an option to only play them... But unfortunately AFAIK there isn't such an option.

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Originally Posted by Kbeaumont
One thing I have been doing as of late is in mainstage. I layered Pianoteq Steinway D with the Grand Piano sample from Logic/Mainstage. I tweaked a few of the Pianoteq settings and they are at a slightly lower level than the Apple sample. It sounds great it really does sound more real than either plugin alone. I think that is what I'm hearing more of the sample but the resonances from Pianoteq are somehow definately helping here.

If I understood well, your idea is to tweak Pianoteq to sound very very resonant and distant. Then you overlap the Pianoteq sound at a low volume, with another VST piano at normal volume and now you have a good realistic piano sound with many resonances from Pianoteq. That's right?

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Originally Posted by magicpiano
Originally Posted by CyberGene
^ That’s an interesting discovery. It means only the resonances can be used separately as we discussed in another thread, say use the samples from a sample-based VST and the resonances from Pianoteq. But they need to expose such a functionality I guess.
If you mean to overlap sympathetic resonances from Pianoteq with normal notes played by another VST, yes, probably you could use them if there were an option to only play them... But unfortunately AFAIK there isn't such an option.

Yes, that's what I mean by "they [the developers of Pianoteq] need to to expose such a functionality". It's supposedly what Yamaha VRM (virtual resonance modeling) is and what Kawai use in their digital pianos (virtual technician? not sure if they have specific term related to the modeled resonances only but James has confirmed Kawai digital pianos use modeled resonances). Wondering why the sample based libraries don't implement modeled resonances as well. Doesn't seem like rocket science at all to me. Imagine VSL libs and Garritan CFX with modeled resonances. It would basically kill anything else.


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keff #2921982 12/11/19 02:23 PM
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Garritan piano VSTs don't have sympathetic resonances? That would be strange... I have the Ivory II American Concert D, and its engine has a good (but a little heavy on the CPU) sympathetic resonance model with many options to change its behavior.

keff #2921987 12/11/19 02:33 PM
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It has damper pedal samples. They are great BTW but a proper modeling would be better. I think it also has string resonance (really don’t remember) but it isn’t something really great or I would have remembered it.


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Originally Posted by CyberGene
It has damper pedal samples. They are great BTW but a proper modeling would be better. I think it also has string resonance (really don’t remember) but it isn’t something really great or I would have remembered it.


Yes, you remember correctly. Garritan does have string resonance, but it's not particularly advanced/prominent. This is the one thing I really like more on the SK-EX Rendering engine, the sustains are beautiful and complex, even on single note strikes.


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keff #2922153 12/12/19 06:40 AM
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So, in Garritan, if you keep a key pressed and then press other keys, there are no sympathetic resonances from the first pressed key?

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Originally Posted by magicpiano
So, in Garritan, if you keep a key pressed and then press other keys, there are no sympathetic resonances from the first pressed key?

You can enable it but it’s nothing special, so I used to keep it turned off and it is by default.


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Originally Posted by magicpiano
Originally Posted by Kbeaumont
One thing I have been doing as of late is in mainstage. I layered Pianoteq Steinway D with the Grand Piano sample from Logic/Mainstage. I tweaked a few of the Pianoteq settings and they are at a slightly lower level than the Apple sample. It sounds great it really does sound more real than either plugin alone. I think that is what I'm hearing more of the sample but the resonances from Pianoteq are somehow definately helping here.

If I understood well, your idea is to tweak Pianoteq to sound very very resonant and distant. Then you overlap the Pianoteq sound at a low volume, with another VST piano at normal volume and now you have a good realistic piano sound with many resonances from Pianoteq. That's right?

Yes, that's pretty much what I'm doing. It was just an experiment and I was quite surprised it turned out well. I played it for my son-in-law who is a guitarist. He agreed it was the most real sounding piano he has heard me play. We compared it to various other plugins, including Addictive Keys Studio Grand, and the sounds from my FA-08 and an Kurzweil SP6 in the my studio. What I made it for was big ballad solo piano and singer songs from artists such as Adelle, Nora Jones etc, where a solo piano is the only instrument. I wanted to hear what I hear when I play the Grand Piano at the college. It isn't perfect but it the closest I've ever got. And I'm not going to go out and get Ivory and a more powerful computer just accompany my grand-daughter.


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keff #2922228 12/12/19 11:59 AM
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That's good, maybe you can post your Pianoteq settings so that CyberGene can try to overlap it with Garritan CFX.

keff #2922254 12/12/19 01:00 PM
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I think I'm not interested too much in overlapping two piano sounds. I'm interested in being able to completely switch off the Pianoteq sound and keep the resonance only (currently not supported and only Pianoteq themselves can enable it it future) then overlap with Garritan CFX or other libraries where damper-down samples and string resonance scripts/effects are all switched down. On the Garritan side I guess it might also not be easy to disable damper-down samples. Some hack may be needed such as editing the configuration file and pointing all damper-pedal sample references to the corresponding no-damper-pedal samples so that it will always play the pure one and the resonances to be coming from Pianoteq.

All that is too much a hassle for me since I already love my N1X which is the reason to even stop using Garritan CFX anymore. But I'm giving some heads-up to people who are more adventurous and have time and the nerves to experiment smile


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I’ve done something similar with Pianoteq blended with the CFX on my P-515; only I favor Pianoteq, in terms of volume, over the CFX. As indicated above, the result is great.
Granted, we’re not isolating ‘the resonances’ from Pianoteq, but it still works very well; and personally, I don’t think this is only due to the resonances from Pianoteq (the CFX also uses modeled resonances); there’s something about two different sources running parallel to one another, and that’s what happens in between. It’s as if an alternate dimension opens up between these two parallels, and magic, magic then occurs.
In a less poetic manner, the sound seems to expand outwards, sideways, obliquely, and even mysteriously in a way that it convinces the listener of the existence of a perspective that is more than the sum of its parts.

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