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Buying a Hailun 161... #2922045 12/11/19 05:10 PM
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After a lifetime of playing on her 70's Baldwin upright, my Mom made a well-deserved upgrade to a new piano. Over the summer I was in town for vacation and we made a trip to her trusted piano tech's workshop where he had a Hailun 151, 161 and 178 on display. I spent a bit of time playing the 161 and the 178. The 178 was slightly out of tune, but the low end sounded awesome and it was the better choice for her large living room. After the purchase and the initial tuning/setup, she's been extremely happy with it.

Ok so to the point...The 161 sitting next to her piano was well prepped and sounded awesome. Obviously not as big sounding as the 178, but for me, it was the more enjoyable piano to play that day. I have an ancient 1927 Hardman Baby Grand at home that I play on and have been very casually "shopping" piano prices for the last 3 years with the thought that at some point in the distant future, I'd pull the trigger when the right deal came along. However, I recently had a health scare and have decided that life is too short to be playing on a decrepit piano smile I got a quote from her tech to have the 161 delivered from the Midwest to the NY/NJ area where I live and I'm trying to figure out if it makes sense. I was told the piano is 4 years old but has been sitting in the shop, is "new”, and will still be covered for 15 years from the time of purchase.

Piano (including tax): $9K
Shipping: $1.5K
Total Cost: $10.5K

Here are my questions/concerns:
Condition - I’ve been lurking on this board for a bunch of years so figured I answer this question myself to start with. My mother’s tech is PTG certified and although he is the also the seller, she has worked with him for over a decade and trusts him implicitly. Also, I had a chance to play the piano and it sounded great…better then all of the used Yamaha and Kawai pianos that I’ve been trying out for the last couple of years that are in the same price range.

Size - For anyone out there that owns a 161, any regrets about not going larger? The room I’d be putting it in is somewhat small so its the right physical size, but there are connecting rooms without doors off of it and from a sound perspective the house could easily take a larger piano. I’m a bit concerned that I’d spend 10K and then soon regret not going for a larger piano.

Cost - Piano buyer SMP is 20.9K so this would be around 55% off SMP (shipping excluded) Online and in the forum I’ve seen a range of prices from 9K-16K. Just trying to figure out if this is a decent price for a piano that’s been sitting idle in a shop for 4 years. Kills me that I’d have to tack on an extra 1.5K for shipping…but I don’t imagine there’s much room for improvement in that area other then to find the same piano locally.

Resale - This goes hand in hand with my size question. One of the things that I liked when looking in larger piano stores is that many of them will allow you to trade a piano you purchased from them back in and put the value of your original purchase towards a more expensive piano. I wouldn’t have that option with this purchase so if I decided to upgrade in the near future I’d be stuck selling on the open market or taking a hit when trading it into a store. In general how’s the resale market for Hailuns? I don’t see that many used ones listed online.

Hailun Support - I’m in NJ and it sounds like the nearest Hailun dealership is now CJs in Philly. Is this who I would have to deal with in the event that the piano needed service and is that something that I should be concerned about?

Ok thanks for listening! While I do like the idea of owning a “sister” piano to the one my Mom owns, I’m more concerned with making a sound decision and would I’d greatly appreciate any feedback that you guys have.

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Re: Buying a Hailun 161... [Re: funk@delic] #2922064 12/11/19 06:44 PM
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That is a nice price for a new Hailun. Why not check the same pianos at your closest dealer. Ask for one of those piano stencils to see how the 161 and 178 fit? The piano sitting on the floor at your Mom’s
piano tech’s shop for 4 years doesn’t sound like it will be sold out from under you so you can take your time. It does make you wonder why a particular piano has been sitting on the floor for four years, unless that tech does little to no advertising?


J & J
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Re: Buying a Hailun 161... [Re: j&j] #2922069 12/11/19 06:57 PM
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I’m gonna ask other PW members out of sheer curiosity but about 10 years ago or so I couldn’t open the Piano Forum without a Hailun banner ad splashed across every thread page. Hailun was winning MMR awards right and left. The soft close safety lid was talked about so blissfully, it was the only way to go. From the sounds of the initial reviews Yamaha and Kawai had a serious better priced competitor. Now NV I only see or hear Hailun mentioned once in awhile. What happened? Maybe I was napping?


J & J
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Re: Buying a Hailun 161... [Re: j&j] #2922096 12/11/19 09:20 PM
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Thanks for the response! All three of the pianos were purchased together and are the same age. Not sure why they haven't sold yet, but as you guessed, I haven't seen them advertised anywhere...so it doesn't look like he's in a rush to sell them. I did speak with the nearest dealer. They had a 178 in stock but no 161. The price I was quoted on the 178 was substantially more than what my Mom paid for hers and was very much out of my intended price range so the choice I'm looking at is the 161 now vs waiting a while longer to save up for something nicer. The stencils are a great idea btw!

Re: Buying a Hailun 161... [Re: funk@delic] #2922101 12/11/19 09:41 PM
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If you can negotiate a deal on the 178 I would 161cm is just a tad to short in my opinion.


When you play, never mind who listens to you. R.Schumann.

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Re: Buying a Hailun 161... [Re: funk@delic] #2922274 12/12/19 02:12 PM
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Don't worry too much about the "full trade in price" down the road. With a trade in you are unlikely to be able to negotiate the new piano price down to the same level as you could without a trade in, so in the end it's just a wash.

Re: Buying a Hailun 161... [Re: noyes] #2922280 12/12/19 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by noyes
Don't worry too much about the "full trade in price" down the road. With a trade in you are unlikely to be able to negotiate the new piano price down to the same level as you could without a trade in, so in the end it's just a wash.

Yes in fact you pay a premium for the convenience of having your new piano wheeled in and your old piano wheeled out. In my case I can look at my dealer’s inventory and see his retail price on my previous 7 year old C3 is somewhat less than the amount of trade in on it I received. I’m also fully aware of the effort, anxiety and stress of people traipsing in your door to look and play your piano and have to do all the authorization to ensure the validity of payment. Escrow services required. I’m too old for that crap quite frankly. grin


J & J
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Re: Buying a Hailun 161... [Re: funk@delic] #2922286 12/12/19 02:48 PM
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Dealers know they count on trade up customers. When I bought my first Yamaha GB1 from Yamahas Piano directly on the site of the new Yamaha dealer piano store, my tech, who was the piano prep guy, thought I was a “one and done customer “, and that is what I myself originally thought. But who could imagine me with a backpack or tech branded messenger bag dragging around sheet music and notebook coming in for the “after NAMM sale” or Inventory Closeout.

The thought of slowly working and gradually paying my way up to a dream piano is so very appealing. All the while having a great practice piano at home the whole time.
That’s why Yamaha makes so many different tiers of pianos. You can start inexpensively and trade your way up. Kinda the Steinway thing with Essex and Boston. I changed brands but bought from the same dealer. That is the cool thing about Yamaha. They have partnerships with other brands too.


J & J
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Re: Buying a Hailun 161... [Re: j&j] #2922294 12/12/19 03:02 PM
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I didn’t mean Yamaha has many different “tiers“ I meant quality levels of pianos.


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Re: Buying a Hailun 161... [Re: j&j] #2922308 12/12/19 04:27 PM
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In any case if you decide that the 161 is really the better size, go back and get the one at your Mom’s piano tech’s shop. In this case bigger is usually nbetter unless it doesn’t fit.


J & J
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Re: Buying a Hailun 161... [Re: funk@delic] #2922391 12/12/19 09:08 PM
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We originally purchased a Hailun 161 and less than a year later upgraded to the Hailun 178. We like the 178 much better than the 161. My wife thought the break in the 161 made it sound like we had two different pianos. The 178 was much more even through the break and the tone of the 178 was nicer. Also the bass on the 178 was so much better.


Hailun HG 178
Re: Buying a Hailun 161... [Re: MainevilleMike] #2922503 12/13/19 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by MainevilleMike
We originally purchased a Hailun 161 and less than a year later upgraded to the Hailun 178. We like the 178 much better than the 161. My wife thought the break in the 161 made it sound like we had two different pianos. The 178 was much more even through the break and the tone of the 178 was nicer. Also the bass on the 178 was so much better.

The 178 is approaching the sweet spot in parlor grands. 6 foot, 7 foot, and 9 foot are the most popular grand sizes. Kinda the “signature models”. Yamaha has the C3X, the C7X and the CFX. Steinway has the model A, B, and D. For some reason I seem to gravitate towards the 6 foot models, although the C7s and Steinway B’s are delightful. And I can’t forget the Schimmel Konzerts in the 7 ft size. Where I have my piano placed, 7 foot is just a bit too much and I’d have to angle the piano and it would look pretty weird. So again, bigger is usually better unless it doesn’t fit.


J & J
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Re: Buying a Hailun 161... [Re: j&j] #2922669 12/13/19 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by j&j
The 178 is approaching the sweet spot in parlor grands. 6 foot, 7 foot, and 9 foot are the most popular grand sizes. Kinda the “signature models”. Yamaha has the C3X, the C7X and the CFX. Steinway has the model A, B, and D.
There are no sweet spots for grands, in the sense of ideal sizes. None of the Steinway models are exactly 6', 7', or 9'. Mason Hamlins are 5'8.5", 6'4" and greater than 9'. Almost all makers produce a variety of sizes so it's only natural that some will be close to 6', 7', and 9'. Most, perhaps all, makers also produce at least one grand model considerably smaller than 6' which I believe is often their most popular model.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 12/13/19 04:55 PM.
Re: Buying a Hailun 161... [Re: funk@delic] #2922706 12/13/19 07:35 PM
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From a string standpoint, my tech feels a 6' piano is the minimum length to be free of excessive inharmonicities, FWIW. As for the bass, something closer to 6' is usually noticeably better sounding than something closer to 5'.


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Re: Buying a Hailun 161... [Re: MainevilleMike] #2922723 12/13/19 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by MainevilleMike
We originally purchased a Hailun 161 and less than a year later upgraded to the Hailun 178. We like the 178 much better than the 161. My wife thought the break in the 161 made it sound like we had two different pianos. The 178 was much more even through the break and the tone of the 178 was nicer. Also the bass on the 178 was so much better.


This is exactly what I suspected I'd hear, but was wishfully hoping someone would chime in and say that they were totally happy with their 161 smile I would like the 178 better, there's no doubt about that. The problem is that the quote I got from the local dealer for a 178 was almost 9K more than what I can get the 161 for...and I'm not sure that the incremental happiness I'd experience moving to the bigger size is worth shelling out nearly twice the money. So my options are:
1) go for the 161 and upgrade in the future if I need to.
2) wait another couple years and save up for the larger size.

I really appreciate all of the comments BTW . I realize that this thread is definitely not unique, I've read a dozen of similar ones from other users over the years. The common conundrum "should I go bigger?...but it costs more money!!" I'll have to answer that question for myself, but its always helpful to talk it through when its YOUR hard earned cash you're looking spend smile

thanks!

Re: Buying a Hailun 161... [Re: funk@delic] #2922751 12/14/19 02:46 AM
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The smaller Hailun, Ritmuller grands are really quite nice pianos and IMHO actually preferable to their Japanese counterparts. Having said that, their 5’7 or 5’8 grands are quite spectacular. In fact, we found that these models are so rich in tone that going to their 6’ grands is not really a noticeable step up. Good choice and very efficient buy! Piano Buyer seems to agree....

Norbert

Last edited by Norbert; 12/14/19 02:48 AM.

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Re: Buying a Hailun 161... [Re: funk@delic] #2922804 12/14/19 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by funk@delic
Originally Posted by MainevilleMike
We originally purchased a Hailun 161 and less than a year later upgraded to the Hailun 178. We like the 178 much better than the 161. My wife thought the break in the 161 made it sound like we had two different pianos. The 178 was much more even through the break and the tone of the 178 was nicer. Also the bass on the 178 was so much better.


This is exactly what I suspected I'd hear, but was wishfully hoping someone would chime in and say that they were totally happy with their 161 smile I would like the 178 better, there's no doubt about that. The problem is that the quote I got from the local dealer for a 178 was almost 9K more than what I can get the 161 for...and I'm not sure that the incremental happiness I'd experience moving to the bigger size is worth shelling out nearly twice the money. So my options are:
1) go for the 161 and upgrade in the future if I need to.
2) wait another couple years and save up for the larger size.

I really appreciate all of the comments BTW . I realize that this thread is definitely not unique, I've read a dozen of similar ones from other users over the years. The common conundrum "should I go bigger?...but it costs more money!!" I'll have to answer that question for myself, but its always helpful to talk it through when its YOUR hard earned cash you're looking spend smile

thanks!




It is in the end it’s your money, your ears, your hands. Perhaps go to the other Hailun dealer who might have both sizes on the floor. If you don’t think the size difference is worth the price increase, go back and get the 161. If you think the 178 is substantially better even though it costs more, wait and save more money. It is the constant conundrum when comparing pianos. Norbert is right, it is nice that Hailun pianos deliver so much for a reasonable price. Oh...if you’re anywhere near Pennsylvania you really ought to try Cunningham Pianos. The Cunningham grands also punch above their weight class and are reasonably priced as well. The people at Cunningham Piano are friendly and helpful.

Best wishes.


J & J
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Re: Buying a Hailun 161... [Re: funk@delic] #2922815 12/14/19 10:25 AM
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It has also been my experience that, when it comes to pianos, both uprights and grands, bigger is usually better, in terms of the richness or fullness of the sound/tone.

That said, I've played a few smaller grands that sounded pretty good to me. But I love most any piano that I can play and make music on... smile

One of the smaller baby grands that impressed me was a late 1980s/early 1990s 4'10" Chickering, made by Baldwin. The community technical college where I worked for over 25 years had the piano donated to the college, and purchased new from a local piano store. Over the years, I had the opportunity to play the small Chickering many times, during my breaks, or lunch hour, and sometimes between classes. I also got to play the piano for many events and programs at the college.

Not to ramble on, but I thought the low bass was exceptional for such a small piano. No, it didn't sound as nice as my larger grand pianos at home, but it did sound respectable, at least to my unsophisticated ears.

Quite often, the advice you get here is about a piano that someone else likes. Get the piano you like, can afford and works best for you!!! smile

All the best!

Rick


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Re: Buying a Hailun 161... [Re: j&j] #2922822 12/14/19 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by j&j
Originally Posted by funk@delic
Originally Posted by MainevilleMike
We originally purchased a Hailun 161 and less than a year later upgraded to the Hailun 178. We like the 178 much better than the 161. My wife thought the break in the 161 made it sound like we had two different pianos. The 178 was much more even through the break and the tone of the 178 was nicer. Also the bass on the 178 was so much better.


This is exactly what I suspected I'd hear, but was wishfully hoping someone would chime in and say that they were totally happy with their 161 smile I would like the 178 better, there's no doubt about that. The problem is that the quote I got from the local dealer for a 178 was almost 9K more than what I can get the 161 for...and I'm not sure that the incremental happiness I'd experience moving to the bigger size is worth shelling out nearly twice the money. So my options are:
1) go for the 161 and upgrade in the future if I need to.
2) wait another couple years and save up for the larger size.

I really appreciate all of the comments BTW . I realize that this thread is definitely not unique, I've read a dozen of similar ones from other users over the years. The common conundrum "should I go bigger?...but it costs more money!!" I'll have to answer that question for myself, but its always helpful to talk it through when its YOUR hard earned cash you're looking spend smile

thanks!




It is in the end it’s your money, your ears, your hands. Perhaps go to the other Hailun dealer who might have both sizes on the floor. If you don’t think the size difference is worth the price increase, go back and get the 161. If you think the 178 is substantially better even though it costs more, wait and save more money. It is the constant conundrum when comparing pianos. Norbert is right, it is nice that Hailun pianos deliver so much for a reasonable price. Oh...if you’re anywhere near Pennsylvania you really ought to try Cunningham Pianos. The Cunningham grands also punch above their weight class and are reasonably priced as well. The people at Cunningham Piano are friendly and helpful.

Best wishes.


Here is the link to Cunningham Pianos. They are a PA company but now have a location in cherryhills NJ. The owner is a respected member here

https://www.cunninghampiano.com/


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
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Re: Buying a Hailun 161... [Re: funk@delic] #2922834 12/14/19 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by funk@delic
Originally Posted by MainevilleMike
We originally purchased a Hailun 161 and less than a year later upgraded to the Hailun 178. We like the 178 much better than the 161. My wife thought the break in the 161 made it sound like we had two different pianos. The 178 was much more even through the break and the tone of the 178 was nicer. Also the bass on the 178 was so much better.


This is exactly what I suspected I'd hear, but was wishfully hoping someone would chime in and say that they were totally happy with their 161 smile I would like the 178 better, there's no doubt about that. The problem is that the quote I got from the local dealer for a 178 was almost 9K more than what I can get the 161 for...and I'm not sure that the incremental happiness I'd experience moving to the bigger size is worth shelling out nearly twice the money. So my options are:
1) go for the 161 and upgrade in the future if I need to.
2) wait another couple years and save up for the larger size.

I really appreciate all of the comments BTW . I realize that this thread is definitely not unique, I've read a dozen of similar ones from other users over the years. The common conundrum "should I go bigger?...but it costs more money!!" I'll have to answer that question for myself, but its always helpful to talk it through when its YOUR hard earned cash you're looking spend smile

thanks!




Sounds like the price of the 178 has really increased a lot in the last five years. When we purchased our 161 in the spring of 2014, we paid $8500 including delivery, setup and taxes. Then in November of 2014 when we decided to upgrade, we paid an additional $3,000 to upgrade. This included pickup of the 161 and delivery of the 178.

I agree with J&J and dogperson, I think you should visit Cunningham Piano before you make your purchase if possible. At the time of our purchase, I wasn't familiar with Cunningham Piano. If I was considering a new Hailun now, I think I would want to compare it to the Cunningham.


Hailun HG 178
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