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Hamburg Steinway B early 1960s #2921758 12/11/19 12:21 AM
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Skiiman1 Offline OP
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Just wondering what your wholesale price estimates would be for the following:

Early 1960s Hamburg Steinway B
Full excellent condition ivory
Excellent sound board
Cabinet with some small areas with peeling polyurethane (will obviously need a restoration at some point)
Overall piano plays well but needs a restoration. Original strings / pins / etc.

Your help is very much appreciated.

Andre

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Re: Hamburg Steinway B early 1960s [Re: Skiiman1] #2921816 12/11/19 07:35 AM
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"Plays well but needs a restoration" is not a clear description. Some posters can give you a ball park estimate of the value of a Steinway B of that age but a more precise description of the condition would help.

Re: Hamburg Steinway B early 1960s [Re: Skiiman1] #2921844 12/11/19 09:00 AM
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Ball park figure for Steinways is $1000 per foot of length as a "core value".

Re: Hamburg Steinway B early 1960s [Re: pyropaul] #2921847 12/11/19 09:23 AM
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So you're saying core value 7k for Steinway B? That seems extremely low.

Re: Hamburg Steinway B early 1960s [Re: Skiiman1] #2921850 12/11/19 09:29 AM
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What I mean by plays well but needs restoration.

Cabinet has some peeling paint (not something you would want to touch up so ultimately it will need to be refinished)

Strings/pins are original...so some rust...ultimately would look better with a restoration
Block is good...but if your changing strings and pins why not change the block
Cast iron paint has lost its luster...so if going to refinish might as well do the strings and pins
Stuff like that.

Re: Hamburg Steinway B early 1960s [Re: Skiiman1] #2921854 12/11/19 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Skiiman1
What I mean by plays well but needs restoration.

Cabinet has some peeling paint (not something you would want to touch up so ultimately it will need to be refinished)

Strings/pins are original...so some rust...ultimately would look better with a restoration
Block is good...but if your changing strings and pins why not change the block
Cast iron paint has lost its luster...so if going to refinish might as well do the strings and pins
Stuff like that.


Hi Andre - Have you already shopped around for restoration prices?


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Re: Hamburg Steinway B early 1960s [Re: Skiiman1] #2921864 12/11/19 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Skiiman1
So you're saying core value 7k for Steinway B? That seems extremely low.
Core value means mostly everything in the piano except the plate, case, hardware, and trapwork needs replacement and the case needs to be refinished. IOW the piano under discussion may not be considered a core.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 12/11/19 10:10 AM.
Re: Hamburg Steinway B early 1960s [Re: Skiiman1] #2921874 12/11/19 10:27 AM
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This varies a lot based on location, which you don't seem to share with us.
In Europe, older Steinways in original condition seem to be worth more than here in the US.
You also aren't giving much information about touch and tone, nor does it look like a technician's report for a piano...so it's pretty impossible to say. What does "excellent sound board" mean? "Plays well but needs a restoration" seems contradictory.
How was this piano used before?


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Re: Hamburg Steinway B early 1960s [Re: Skiiman1] #2921892 12/11/19 11:06 AM
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Location is in the U.S.
I'm just looking for ballpark figures.
Let's say it had a complete restoration (done well)...what would be a good expectation on selling price?

Re: Hamburg Steinway B early 1960s [Re: Skiiman1] #2921893 12/11/19 11:07 AM
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Where do you live?

How much are they asking for?

Outside of the Americas, Hamburg is standard, so it's not a big deal.

Last edited by johnstaf; 12/11/19 11:07 AM.
Re: Hamburg Steinway B early 1960s [Re: Skiiman1] #2921894 12/11/19 11:08 AM
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I just saw you're in the US.

Re: Hamburg Steinway B early 1960s [Re: Skiiman1] #2921897 12/11/19 11:13 AM
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All that being said...you're telling me it's possible to purchase a 1960s Hamburg B with good soundboard ....even with everything else needing replacement for 1k per foot. Where?

Re: Hamburg Steinway B early 1960s [Re: Skiiman1] #2921903 12/11/19 11:21 AM
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27500.
Piano is in California
Currently piano is playable. Sounds great. But it's 60 years old so I would eventually want to refurb.

Re: Hamburg Steinway B early 1960s [Re: Skiiman1] #2921918 12/11/19 11:52 AM
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Many of the rebuilders that post here believe that a new soundboard is almost always worth the expense when doing major restoration work on a piano of that age. If you really like the piano as it is, and only want cosmetic work done, then that's different. I wouldn't change the sound of my 1911 piano for anything, but maybe a lot of rebuilders would think I am misguided.

Last edited by johnstaf; 12/11/19 11:52 AM.
Re: Hamburg Steinway B early 1960s [Re: Skiiman1] #2921932 12/11/19 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Skiiman1
All that being said...you're telling me it's possible to purchase a 1960s Hamburg B with good soundboard ....even with everything else needing replacement for 1k per foot. Where?
If the soundboard is really in excellent condition musically and cosmetically, the value of the piano would probably be more than 1K per foot. The 1K per foot is an approximate figure for "core" pianos where everything needs replacement. The soundboard is one of the more expensive items in the cost of complete rebuilding so if it doesn't need replacement the value of the piano is greater.

OTOH if you decide to have work done on the piano 10 or 20 years from now the soundboard may not be in such good condition. Even more importantly, when extensive work is done on a piano many people feel it's hard to know exactly what the result will be in terms of touch and tone. So it's risky to buy a piano with the idea of having it mostly rebuilt in the future.

Have you played the piano or are you going by the seller's description? Does it "sound great" compared to your present piano or compared to new Steinways/new high quality pianos?

Last edited by pianoloverus; 12/11/19 12:24 PM.
Re: Hamburg Steinway B early 1960s [Re: Skiiman1] #2921935 12/11/19 12:27 PM
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All original, 60 years old? $27,500 is crazy town, Hamburg or not.
I would guess that, fully restored to new condition, as a private seller it would be worth maybe $50-55k, depending on market and how it actually played when you get done with it. If you were a dealer and offering a warranty, moving, etc. it might be worth more.

Restoration costs and quality vary widely. It wouldn't be out of line to spend $40k+ on that part, though yours might be less if you're not replacing the soundboard. You'd be well into the 5-figures, regardless.


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Re: Hamburg Steinway B early 1960s [Re: Skiiman1] #2922117 12/12/19 01:12 AM
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I don't know the US Market for used pianos yet but in the UK a piano like that would probably fetch somewhere between £8,000 and £15,000 depending on circumstances (of the buyer, of the seller, of the piano).

1960 is a long time ago now, and the piano will almost certainly need some level of restoration unless it has sat in a hermetically sealed room all that time... The pin block and strings will almost certainly need done unless you can live with the 60 year old strings and tuning stability of the old block and strings.

The action would almost certainly need to be replaced. While the old actions can still work well and can be reconditioned well, it's often more economical to put new parts in, and I mean that also in terms of end results.

You say it will need restored at some point in the future, but the piano is already 60 years old and so we can pretty much say that unless there has been some exceptional circumstance, the piano already 'needs' restored - unless you can live with it as is.

Are you buying this piano or selling it? If the piano was restored there is no guarantee you'll make your money back as a private seller.

Also, have a look around at pianos for sale. On eBay and other sites you often see high prices attached to old Steinway pianos, but how long have these pianos been sitting for sale, and what are the *actually* selling for?

Regarding the soundboard being good - it's likely the soundboard is good. Hamburg Steinways have been known to have good soundboards even after 100 years (I don't know enough about New York Steinways to comment, but many of them end up in weird climates in this vast country which makes a huge difference), but restoring a piano while retaining its original soundboard is still a costly exercise.

If you're selling this piano and you get offered something in the region of $12,000, I'd think seriously before I refused it if I were you. Perhaps $7000 could be regarded as a bit low. $27500 is very high, and if someone offered you that I'd bite their hands off to accept it.

Re: Hamburg Steinway B early 1960s [Re: terminaldegree] #2922121 12/12/19 01:43 AM
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So let me ask you...at what point would it be worth 27k ?

Re: Hamburg Steinway B early 1960s [Re: Skiiman1] #2922183 12/12/19 09:03 AM
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Complicated question. A private seller would be asking someone to part with a lot of money (27k is a lot of money by anyone's standards) without a warranty. It's really difficult to know how much any individual is willing to spend on a piano, and market 'values' and prices paid tell only part of the story. At the end of the day it depends if one can attract a buyer at the price one hopes to achieve for the item in question.

What is your best hope for getting 27k? That you are a dealer who has the means to put this piano into as good condition as you can whilst being able to afford to sell it for that price. I know you can walk into a dealer and see Steinway Bs in various condition for way more than 27k, and I know that some dealers will sell a junker for that much if they can get away with it (if they can attract a buyer to it is all I mean).

If you want a high price for your piano, advertise it at a high price and see what happens, then come back here and tell us.

If I was paying 27k in a private sale for any piano, I would be hoping that there wasn't that much to do to the piano. I wouldn't be buying it thinking that within 5 years I'd have to give it a full rebuild (soundboard or no soundboard). If I was looking at a Steinway in that price range in a private sale, I'd probably be looking at something younger, or something that had already been rebuilt and was now a second hand rebuild.

Personally I can't answer your question at what point would it be worth 27k, but my gut feeling is that you'd have to spend more than 27k on it to attract a buyer willing to part with 27k for it.

Re: Hamburg Steinway B early 1960s [Re: Skiiman1] #2922192 12/12/19 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Skiiman1
So let me ask you...at what point would it be worth 27k ?

I’m a bit confused. Are you looking to sell this piano or buy it? I might need a second cup of coffee this morning? laugh


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