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Couple of Q; Ca58
#2921650 12/10/19 05:05 PM
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Considering this shortly, or the Clp645/635.
I liked the quiet keys, the sound, and the way it played. Cranked up, it didn't perform unlike a baby grand nearby, and had a tremendous dynamic range. Well; terrifying might be a better word. Can you damp this down a bit without changing the tonal characteristics?

Secondly, is it possible to slightly detune it?

I'm asking these questions to avoid trawling my way through the manual. Maybe it doesn't indicate one way or another. . .

And reliability is a serious consideration that I dearly wish wasn't there . . . . the product does have so many features in there it's difficult to ignore it! Thanking y'all in advance guys.


"I am not a man. I am a free number"

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Re: Couple of Q; Ca58
peterws #2921666 12/10/19 06:07 PM
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Lowering key sensitivity will make so you need to apply much more force before reaching the F range which will probably bring it down a bit unless you are really ponding the keys.

Re: Couple of Q; Ca58
peterws #2921686 12/10/19 07:59 PM
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Some of the Kawai's allow note-by-note tuning. So if you want a honky-tonk piano, and there's not one built-in, you can create it.

Now, you have to make sure that you can _save_ and _recall_ that tuning, for that voice. On a Casio, that would be called a "Registration", Kawai might have another name.


. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / EV ZXA1 speaker
Re: Couple of Q; Ca58
peterws #2921723 12/10/19 09:31 PM
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Hello Peter,

Originally Posted by peterws
Can you damp this down a bit without changing the tonal characteristics?


Do you mean reduce/narrow the dynamic range of the instrument?
If so, I'm not sure this is really possible. You can try changing the Touch Curve (e.g. heavy), and perhaps the voicing (e.g. Bright), but I'm not sure this is exactly what you're looking for.

Originally Posted by peterws
Secondly, is it possible to slightly detune it?


Yes, the CA58 allows the pitch to be adjusted globally using the Tuning setting, or on a key-by-key basis using the User Tuning parameter of the Virtual Technician function.

Originally Posted by peterws
And reliability is a serious consideration that I dearly wish wasn't there . . . .


I don't recall seeing any reports of issues with the CA58.

I hope this helps.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: Couple of Q; Ca58
peterws #2921729 12/10/19 09:59 PM
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I strongly suggest you read the manual. You will find out so many nice features .

Just read one page a day if you don't feel like reading a lot.

Trust me you'll be glad you did.

If you really don't want to read. There probably is a youtube tutorial as well.


When you play, never mind who listens to you. R.Schumann.

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Schimmel SP-182T "I loved you dearly"
Re: Couple of Q; Ca58
peterws #2921768 12/11/19 02:32 AM
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Originally Posted by peterws

And reliability is a serious consideration that I dearly wish wasn't there . . . . the product does have so many features in there it's difficult to ignore it! Thanking y'all in advance guys.


I have had a CA58 for ~1.5 years now, and there were no issues. I am happy with it and it is good value for the money. There is some variation in let-off resistance in my case, but not enough to make a big deal of.


Yamaha P-115 -> Kawai CA-58 -> Kawai K-300 ATX3
Re: Couple of Q; Ca58
peterws #2921811 12/11/19 07:50 AM
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Thanks for your answers, everyone. Just wondering, to clarify the dynamic range situation, if it's possible to create and save your own touch curve like on Pianoteq, which could take the sting out of it's tail . . .


"I am not a man. I am a free number"

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Re: Couple of Q; Ca58
peterws #2922093 12/11/19 09:51 PM
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Peter, most Kawai DPs offer a "User Touch Curve" feature, whereby the instrument creates a custom touch curve based on an individual's playing style. Some customers appreciate this feature, others are less satisfied.

I guess you could theoretically use this function and deliberately play with a limited dynamic range while the instrument is in analysis mode. The resulting touch curve would probably be "narrower" than the preset curves, however this is not something that I have ever tried myself, I'm afraid.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: Couple of Q; Ca58
peterws #2922123 12/12/19 02:55 AM
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Hello James. Trouble with that is it also affects the tone, making the instrument sharper or mellower. I prefer, at the moment, fingers being what they are, to flatten somewhat, the middle (most often played) area, and steepen the bottom and top ends to compensate.
It works very well, giving a smoother delivery which would be kinder to most ears . . . .without unduly affecting the tone.


"I am not a man. I am a free number"

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Re: Couple of Q; Ca58
peterws #2922135 12/12/19 04:39 AM
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Hello Peter?

When you say "flatten" and "steepen" are you referring to the dynamic range of the key area?

So, ideally you would like for the middle area of the keyboard to have a relative flat/narrow dynamic range, but for the bass and treble areas to have a board/steep dynamic range? Presumably, there broadening/steeping towards the bass and treble areas should also be progressively increased?

I don't believe any digital piano offers this kind of functionality, I'm afraid.

However, many Kawai DPs include a Key Volume parameter which can be used to adjust the volume of individual keys, or apply a "damping" preset to an area of the keyboard. In this case, the "Center (sic) Damping" preset, which "Gradually reduces the volume of the keyboard in the central region." might be worth trying. For more information, please refer to the Key Volume parameter in the owner's manual.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: Couple of Q; Ca58
Kawai James #2922146 12/12/19 07:09 AM
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peterws Offline OP
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I'm not very good at explaining myself, I'm afraid.
I was talking about the pressure applied to the keys, not the keyboard zone. So when you hit a key with varying force, it doesn't sound stridently louder or softer, but a rather gentler variation. You'd get that with a graph inclined at say, 35deg instead of the usual 45deg wrt Pianoteq vel. curve.
I love fiddling around with such stuff.
I really have nothing better to do . . . . . .


"I am not a man. I am a free number"

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Re: Couple of Q; Ca58
peterws #2922150 12/12/19 07:28 AM
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Does Pianoteq allow you to define separate touch curves for different regions of the keyboard, or individual keys?

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: Couple of Q; Ca58
peterws #2922151 12/12/19 07:32 AM
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peterws, if you are using an external VST, you could also use a tool like this one which has a great deal of flexibility. Just interpose this between the piano output and the VST input.


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across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Couple of Q; Ca58
Kawai James #2922157 12/12/19 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Does Pianoteq allow you to define separate touch curves for different regions of the keyboard, or individual keys?

Cheers,
James
x

No, it doesn’t and I really miss that in pianoteq. I would love some sort of global “velocity balance” parameter.


"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein
Re: Couple of Q; Ca58
peterws #2922170 12/12/19 09:28 AM
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You wouldn't need a touch curve for different keyboard portions. but an individual key volume control instead. It'd remove high and low spots in sound, and larger areas.


"I am not a man. I am a free number"

"[Linked Image]"
Re: Couple of Q; Ca58
peterws #2922188 12/12/19 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by peterws
You wouldn't need a touch curve for different keyboard portions. but an individual key volume control instead. It'd remove high and low spots in sound, and larger areas.

You can already do that in most Kawai digital pianos. The problem is that setting does not depend on the velocity. Ideally you should set 2 curves related to the velocity: one for the timbre, and another for the volume.

Re: Couple of Q; Ca58
peterws #2922190 12/12/19 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by peterws
You wouldn't need a touch curve for different keyboard portions. but an individual key volume control instead. It'd remove high and low spots in sound, and larger areas.

The software I referred to above actually gives you a complete touch curve per key.


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Couple of Q; Ca58
peterws #2922534 12/13/19 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by peterws


I'm asking these questions to avoid trawling my way through the manual. Maybe it doesn't indicate one way or another. . .




There is an IOS app that would allow you see the features you can edit less of a text-based fashion.


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