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MP11SE Vibrato #2921557 12/10/19 09:51 AM
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dmd Offline OP
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I am pretty much fine without any changes but since I have access to a plethora of options for modifying the sound I think I should at least venture into things a bit.

So …. I will start with vibrato.

I need suggestions (based on personal experience) for adding a bit of vibrato to my SK Concert Grand sound.

Thanks


Don

Kawai MP11SE, Focal Professional CMS 40 near-field monitors, Yamaha HS8S Powered Subwoofer, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones, Pianoteq and numerous other VSTs (Seldom Used)
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Re: MP11SE Vibrato [Re: dmd] #2921608 12/10/19 01:26 PM
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Can you use the mod/pitch bend wheels as needed? I've never used them myself, but I always assumed that was what they were for smile


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: MP11SE Vibrato [Re: dmd] #2921622 12/10/19 02:26 PM
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dmd Offline OP
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That would not work for vibrato.

Vibrato is a semi-tight wobbling of the sound whereas the "wheel" gives more of a slow bend of the sound.


Don

Kawai MP11SE, Focal Professional CMS 40 near-field monitors, Yamaha HS8S Powered Subwoofer, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones, Pianoteq and numerous other VSTs (Seldom Used)
Re: MP11SE Vibrato [Re: dmd] #2921684 12/10/19 06:49 PM
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Charles Cohen Offline
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Do you want to start a war? <g>

The problem:

. . . Acoustic pianos do not have "vibrato".

So -- as soon as you touch that wheel, assuming you're playing "acoustic piano" voices -- you are moving outside 'classical practice', and into something else.

So there is a "purist" / "non-purist" split in the advice you're going to get ("NO!!!!" / "Sure!").

My suggestion (FWIW):

. . . Experiment with the mod wheel using E-piano voices and organs -- Rhodes, Clavinet, etc.

Those instruments _did_ have tremelo / vibrato available. Our ears have become used to them, with vibrato added. I think "how much, how fast?" is entirely up to the taste of the player.

Have fun!


. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / EV ZXA1 speaker
Re: MP11SE Vibrato [Re: dmd] #2921697 12/10/19 07:20 PM
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dmd Offline OP
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I must not be making myself clear.

I will not be utilizing the "wheel".

I want something that is assigned to my sound so that the sound has a slight variation in pitch at a specified rate.

Done correctly, this can add "warmth" and/or expression to a sound.

It will be accomplished by setting 1 or more characteristics of sound within my MP11SE to some value.

I need to know what those characteristics are and how to use them.


Last edited by dmd; 12/10/19 07:21 PM.

Don

Kawai MP11SE, Focal Professional CMS 40 near-field monitors, Yamaha HS8S Powered Subwoofer, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones, Pianoteq and numerous other VSTs (Seldom Used)
Re: MP11SE Vibrato [Re: dmd] #2921712 12/10/19 07:58 PM
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Kawai James Offline
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Hello Don,

To apply effects to an acoustic piano sound, press the EFX button of the PIANO section to first enable the effects (and whatever effect is assigned to the selected piano sound by default), then press and hold the EFX button to jump to the relevant page of the EDIT menu.

From this screen you can select the category and type of effect to apply to the sound. To start with, select the "Tremolo" category, then the "VibratoTrm" effect, then adjust the depth, speed, and vib, etc. parameters as desired.

For more information about applying effects to sounds, please refer to pages 23 and 121 of the MP11SE owner's manual.

I hope this helps.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: MP11SE Vibrato [Re: Kawai James] #2921751 12/10/19 11:03 PM
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dmd Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
I hope this helps.

Kind regards,
James
x


Exactly what I needed.

Thank You


Don

Kawai MP11SE, Focal Professional CMS 40 near-field monitors, Yamaha HS8S Powered Subwoofer, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones, Pianoteq and numerous other VSTs (Seldom Used)
Re: MP11SE Vibrato [Re: dmd] #2921951 12/11/19 01:23 PM
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Effects are not per note. Yamaha EX5 is the only keyboard I know which has per note effects.


Kawai MP7SE, Yamaha MOTF XF6, Yamaha WX5, Yamaha Pacifica 112v
Re: MP11SE Vibrato [Re: Abdol] #2921981 12/11/19 02:17 PM
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dmd Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Abdol
Effects are not per note. Yamaha EX5 is the only keyboard I know which has per note effects.


I am curious as to what moved you to feel the need to inject that comment ?

Was there something posted previously in this thread that you felt the need to correct ?


Don

Kawai MP11SE, Focal Professional CMS 40 near-field monitors, Yamaha HS8S Powered Subwoofer, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones, Pianoteq and numerous other VSTs (Seldom Used)
Re: MP11SE Vibrato [Re: dmd] #2922028 12/11/19 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by dmd
Originally Posted by Abdol
Effects are not per note. Yamaha EX5 is the only keyboard I know which has per note effects.


I am curious as to what moved you to feel the need to inject that comment ?

Was there something posted previously in this thread that you felt the need to correct ?




You didn't specify your purpose and application. If you're just looking for an effect, this will work. But if you're looking for LFO generated vibratos, this method is not going to simulate it. All of the notes will be affected at the same time.

For example, if you have a reverb effect, and you trigger the vibrato effect, it will affect whatever you can hear.

Oh and I didn't correct anything?! It is a solution but I thought may be you're looking for a technical way of doing it. I don't think you can have vibrato the way you have it on samplers for Piano in MP series. James might be able to clarify it.

Last edited by Abdol; 12/11/19 04:28 PM.

Kawai MP7SE, Yamaha MOTF XF6, Yamaha WX5, Yamaha Pacifica 112v
Re: MP11SE Vibrato [Re: dmd] #2922040 12/11/19 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by dmd
I must not be making myself clear.

I will not be utilizing the "wheel".

I want something that is assigned to my sound so that the sound has a slight variation in pitch at a specified rate.

Done correctly, this can add "warmth" and/or expression to a sound.

It will be accomplished by setting 1 or more characteristics of sound within my MP11SE to some value.

I need to know what those characteristics are and how to use them.



And, although you are looking to add warmth to the sound, with a very high probability, it will sound artificial because everything will start vibrating at the same time (synchronized) and your ears will catch it immediately. The only nice way of doing this is through LFOs.

If the effects were per note, you could simulate the LFO style vibratos nicely as LFOs get executed each time you press a key.

You can imagine that I'm a snob or maybe I'm trying to share something useful with you.

Last edited by Abdol; 12/11/19 04:42 PM.

Kawai MP7SE, Yamaha MOTF XF6, Yamaha WX5, Yamaha Pacifica 112v
Re: MP11SE Vibrato [Re: dmd] #2922054 12/11/19 05:37 PM
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dmd Offline OP
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Well, I have no idea what you are talking about …. but thanks for the help, anyway.


Don

Kawai MP11SE, Focal Professional CMS 40 near-field monitors, Yamaha HS8S Powered Subwoofer, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones, Pianoteq and numerous other VSTs (Seldom Used)
Re: MP11SE Vibrato [Re: dmd] #2922060 12/11/19 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by dmd
Well, I have no idea what you are talking about …. but thanks for the help, anyway.


From what I understood, he's saying every single generated sound will have Vibrato, so not just the melody, even accompanying left hand chords, and "leftover" pedal notes reverberating in the background will have Vibrato applied to them.. So everything might sound jumbled up unless you're just playing a single melody..

Re: MP11SE Vibrato [Re: dmd] #2922084 12/11/19 08:07 PM
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Charles Cohen Offline
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I'll take another guess as to what Abdol was talking about (note "guess"!):

Most likely, on the MP11, the vibrato is applied _uniformly_ to all the keys that are held down. So _all notes_ will be moving up and down in pitch, synchronously (all up, then all down).

On a synth (at least, the kind of synth he's talking about), each note has its own "vibrato control" (a Low-Frequency Oscillator), which moves the pitch slightly up and down. And the LFO cycle will start _when the note is triggered_.

So if several keys are struck in sequence (e.g. for an arpeggio), their LFO's (and vibrato's) will be "out of phase" -- when some are moving up in pitch, others will be moving down in pitch.

I've just checked the MikroKorg XL+ manual, and there is a parameter ""KEY SYNC" which lets one specify:

. . . OFF: all notes share the same LFO phase (more-or-less like a common "vibrato effect");

. . . TIMBRE: The LFO starts when the first key is struck, and all notes share the same LFO phase, until no keys are held down;

. . . VOICE: The LFO phase (for each note) is reset at each note-on, and each note's vibrato is phased independently.

So yes, it _does_ matter which one you implement (or choose, for a programmable synth).

Note that the MKXL+ also has a "per voice" "Vibrato effect", which raises/lowers all the notes synchronously.

Implementing the "VOICE" behavior, with independent vibrato phase for each note, pretty well requires a separate signal path for each note. Doing that will be really expensive, for a high-polyphony synth (or digital piano).

I never thought about that before . . .


. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / EV ZXA1 speaker
Re: MP11SE Vibrato [Re: dmd] #2922089 12/11/19 08:25 PM
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dmd Offline OP
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With all due respect ….. I will request that those that are interested, take this conversation about LFO stuff to a different thread.

I have all I need from the moment I stated …. Exactly what I needed. Thanks.


Last edited by dmd; 12/11/19 08:25 PM.

Don

Kawai MP11SE, Focal Professional CMS 40 near-field monitors, Yamaha HS8S Powered Subwoofer, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones, Pianoteq and numerous other VSTs (Seldom Used)
Re: MP11SE Vibrato [Re: dmd] #2922105 12/11/19 10:29 PM
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@Charles Cohen is correct. The point is the effect is global, one vibrato applied to all the notes at the same time.

With LFOs, each note you play will generate its own vibrato (pitch modulation accurately) at a different time.

Originally Posted by dmd
With all due respect ….. I will request that those that are interested, take this conversation about LFO stuff to a different thread.

I have all I need from the moment I stated …. Exactly what I needed. Thanks.



Proverbs 16:16 says that having wisdom and understanding is better than having silver or gold.

Last edited by Abdol; 12/11/19 10:31 PM.

Kawai MP7SE, Yamaha MOTF XF6, Yamaha WX5, Yamaha Pacifica 112v

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