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Size of notation on the page
#2920817 12/08/19 01:27 AM
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Hello.

For those who don't know me I'm a composer and a music publisher and I'm planning on publishing a book aimed for adults. No other advertising here, apart from a question and the reason d'etre for this thing.

My partner, aged 49, wants to learn piano. But her eye sight is worsening because of her age (she used to have a 20/20 eyesight). So once I started planning the score, I decided to go for a slightly larger font to help her out.

But my aesthetic guts tell me that it's too big.

Could you share your opinion on how the scores by Schirmer, or Henle, or Dover or whoever publisher look to you? Because I'm too used at the normal size of music scores that I'm way too biased.

If you want I could post a page, as an example.

Thank you.

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Re: Size of notation on the page
Nikolas #2920823 12/08/19 02:03 AM
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Hi Nikolas,

I am ten years older than your partner, and have the same issue with my eye sight. Sooner or later she might want to buy some reading glasses, like I have done.
However, I don't yet need glasses when playing the piano. I use my old i-Pad, and this is an example of a score that I can read without problems from the i-Pad. The score is made with Musescore, and I have spent some time figuring out the sizes of notes, note distance etc etc that suited me best.

I am curious about your book! Is it a book with the score of the music that you wrote, or is it a method book? Or a book adressing a specific issue?


Playing the piano is learning to create, playfully and deeply seriously, our own music in the world.
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Re: Size of notation on the page
Nikolas #2920826 12/08/19 02:18 AM
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Personally, I'd go with the majority. I'm in group piano classes for adults. The books we use is at an intermediate level. They are still considered easy pieces which are easy to sight-read with 4 lines per page from 2 to 4 pages. A typical repertoire book would be 9"x12" which is slightly bigger than the standard 8.5"x11" printing paper.

I wouldn't be publishing a book any larger than 9"x12" which is the size most of my repertoire books are printed unless the book is specifically made for the visually impaired. I play with a music group. There are pieces someone in the group would photocopy and distribute to the musicians in large print meaning the same pieces on larger paper. We're not rewriting a book with pieces that are printed with 4 lines per page to just 2. We are keeping the same text & note ratio and printing on larger paper.

The other approach would be to make the same pieces available in digital format (pdf). The person with eye problems can access the files on a tablet or a large computer screen that allows the pages to be zoomed to a readable size.

Re: Size of notation on the page
Nikolas #2920828 12/08/19 02:28 AM
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Hi to both,

Thank you for your replies.

Animisha this is pretty much the size of notation I'm going for. 4 staves per page with a bit of space between them.

The book is a duet book, with the secondo being considerably more demanding than the primo, which is very easy stuff, almost for beginners (who understand chromatic notes and know reading notes, though). My idea is that everything I've encountered is not "true" music and I'd like to offer something that's really worthwhile playing for the adult player. In any case the duets can also be turned into solo pieces, once the student reaches a certain level.

thepianoplkayer416: The size of the page is given and it's the same size of most music books (Henle, Wiener Urtext, etc). The 4 staves per page is pretty much the information I'm looking for. Many thanks.

Again thanks to both.

Re: Size of notation on the page
Nikolas #2920836 12/08/19 03:06 AM
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Originally Posted by animisha
. . . Sooner or later she might want to buy some reading glasses, like I have done. . . .


IMHO, "sooner or later" should mean _right now_:

. . . She needs glasses that correct for any astigmatism she has, and also correct her nearsightedness/ farsightedness
. . . . so that her eyes are relaxed ( = "focused at infinity") when she's sitting at her normal distance from a score.

I know, that's the answer to a question that you didn't ask -- sorry! I'm a bit fanatic on this issue.


. Charles
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Re: Size of notation on the page
Charles Cohen #2920839 12/08/19 03:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Charles Cohen
Originally Posted by animisha
. . . Sooner or later she might want to buy some reading glasses, like I have done. . . .


IMHO, "sooner or later" should mean _right now_:

. . . She needs glasses that correct for any astigmatism she has, and also correct her nearsightedness/ farsightedness
. . . . so that her eyes are relaxed ( = "focused at infinity") when she's sitting at her normal distance from a score.

I know, that's the answer to a question that you didn't ask -- sorry! I'm a bit fanatic on this issue.


yikes.

By all means. She has reading glasses.

Don't be that kind of a fanatic! laugh But thanks in any case

Re: Size of notation on the page
Nikolas #2920845 12/08/19 04:49 AM
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Glasses and the piano... eek

For me the music is clearer without glasses. It's not close enough for my reading glasses, or far enough for my distance glasses.

Last edited by johnstaf; 12/08/19 04:49 AM.
Re: Size of notation on the page
Nikolas #2920848 12/08/19 04:56 AM
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Hi Nikolas,

I'm 65, and my eyesight isn't what it used to be of course. I do use glasses. The 'Fairyland' book of yours, with some of them being 5 staves per page, I find easy enough to read, if that's any indication. It's only when there are a lot of notes very close together, that it becomes harder on the old eyes.

By the piano, I use my regular/computer glasses, not reading glasses.

Last edited by Jytte; 12/08/19 04:57 AM.

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Re: Size of notation on the page
Nikolas #2920856 12/08/19 05:43 AM
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I actually do not like when the font is too big. I find it makes reading more difficult. So typically i prefer the font size of some of the new Barenreiter editions to Henle for example. The other important factor is the space between the G and F staves which should not be be too small nor too big. 5 staves per page is about right for me.

Re: Size of notation on the page
Jytte #2920858 12/08/19 05:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Jytte

By the piano, I use my regular/computer glasses, not reading glasses.


If I may be nosey...

Do you have both computer glasses and distance glasses?

Re: Size of notation on the page
johnstaf #2920861 12/08/19 05:54 AM
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Originally Posted by johnstaf
Originally Posted by Jytte

By the piano, I use my regular/computer glasses, not reading glasses.


If I may be nosey...

Do you have both computer glasses and distance glasses?

I'm not Jytte - but John, would you believe I have computer glasses, reading glasses and distance glasses? But I don't need any of those for reading the score when I play the piano. smile


Playing the piano is learning to create, playfully and deeply seriously, our own music in the world.
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Re: Size of notation on the page
Nikolas #2920865 12/08/19 05:57 AM
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I have both reading and computer glasses and varifocals, the varifocals are for when I am out and about and vary between distance (top) and my computer glasses prescription bottom. I have astigmatism that needs adjustment as well as going long sighted with age so the astig adjustment applies to all my glasses. I'm lucky that my digital piano is immediately behind my computer work desk and my computer glasses live on my computer desk and are perfect for reading the music score.

I recommend glasses specific for computer and piano usage, a bit weaker than reading glasses prescription.

Re: Size of notation on the page
Nikolas #2920866 12/08/19 06:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Nikolas
The book is a duet book, with the secondo being considerably more demanding than the primo, which is very easy stuff, almost for beginners (who understand chromatic notes and know reading notes, though). My idea is that everything I've encountered is not "true" music and I'd like to offer something that's really worthwhile playing for the adult player. In any case the duets can also be turned into solo pieces, once the student reaches a certain level.

That is a very nice idea. Good luck with your book!


Playing the piano is learning to create, playfully and deeply seriously, our own music in the world.
*
... feeling like the pianist on the Titanic ...
Re: Size of notation on the page
Nikolas #2920870 12/08/19 06:15 AM
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Thank you all.

The reference to Fairyland in Treble was simply exactly what I needed!

This books is planned to be 3% larger than the Fairyland, so... comfortable Problem solved.

Now... just for an update and because I like sharing news. I've composed 5 duets already for a total of 28 pages and I think I'll aim for a total of 10! smile

Thanks all!

Re: Size of notation on the page
Nikolas #2920871 12/08/19 06:24 AM
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Thanks Anamisha and KevinM. I'll look for computer glasses. I don't need glasses yet for music, but I'm sure I will in time...

Re: Size of notation on the page
johnstaf #2920879 12/08/19 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by johnstaf
Originally Posted by Jytte

By the piano, I use my regular/computer glasses, not reading glasses.


If I may be nosey...

Do you have both computer glasses and distance glasses?

No, I'm long sighted, so I have weaker glasses for computer, piano, other things sort of close up, but I need stronger glasses for reading books with smallish print.


[Linked Image]XXXVII-XXXVIII
I pray, that tomorrow I may strive to be a little better than I am today - and, on behalf of everybody else, I give thanks for headphones.
Re: Size of notation on the page
Nikolas #2920885 12/08/19 08:35 AM
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I've been a strong proponent in just using a single pair of multi-focal contacts, but recently realized that doesn't seem to help a lot of people. It works great for me, I haven't owned an pair of glasses, reading or otherwise, in about 20 years, but I've been discussing with my brother and his presbyopia seems to be much worse than mine and it seems like multi-focal contacts won't help him, especially as he sometimes has to perform surgery on other people's eyes, and he needs to have perfectly clear vision. So I'm thinking vision is another thing where everyone is different now, and some people only need a single pair of contacts to correct for both presbyopia and myopia, and others need several pairs of glasses. I'm starting to think, like technique, it's probably not useful suggestion vision options to people - rather suggest that they go to their optometrist who can determine what options they have.


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Re: Size of notation on the page
Nikolas #2920887 12/08/19 08:55 AM
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I would make one correction: instead of discussing options with an optometrist alone, I would involve an ophthalmologist in the decision.


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
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Re: Size of notation on the page
dogperson #2920898 12/08/19 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by dogperson
I would make one correction: instead of discussing options with an optometrist alone, I would involve an ophthalmologist in the decision.


In Canada, ophthalmologists fix diseases of the eyes and operate, such as laser surgery and cataract surgery. They don’t fix nearsightedness, farsightedness, presbyopia or astigmatism with corrective lenses, which is the realm of optometrists. So unless we want laser surgery, we wouldn’t go to an ophthalmologist.


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Re: Size of notation on the page
WeakLeftHand #2920901 12/08/19 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by WeakLeftHand
Originally Posted by dogperson
I would make one correction: instead of discussing options with an optometrist alone, I would involve an ophthalmologist in the decision.


In Canada, ophthalmologists fix diseases of the eyes and operate, such as laser surgery and cataract surgery. They don’t fix nearsightedness, farsightedness, presbyopia or astigmatism with corrective lenses, which is the realm of optometrists. So unless we want laser surgery, we wouldn’t go to an ophthalmologist.


In the US, optometrists do fit the contact lenses or glasses .... but the ophthalmologist is the physician who advises on the correct course of correction. Ophthalmologist is a physician with eye speciality training so the scope is much larger than just surgery.


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
"I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho

It's ok to be a Work In Progress
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