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Re: Any budget digital piano close to acoustic feeling?
Burkey #2919883 12/04/19 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Burkie
Originally Posted by rmns2bseen
Originally Posted by Burkie

Stop conflating keys and hammers. They're two different parts.
We're still waiting for your evidence that the Yamaha N3X has fake keys.

Idiotic. The hammers are the keys' reason for being there in the first place. If the key is not manipulating a hammer to strike strings to produce a tone, it's not a plain old "actual" piano.


Ok, so since you refuse to verify your own wild claims I have done it for you.

The Yamaha N3X uses a real piano action with the same wooden keys as they do in their acoustic grand pianos:
https://usa.yamaha.com/products/musical_instruments/pianos/avantgrand/n3x/features.html

'the all-important key action, which the AvantGrand series has inherited from Yamaha’s esteemed concert grand pianos'

But. It's. Still. Not. A. Grand. Piano.

Re: Any budget digital piano close to acoustic feeling?
rmns2bseen #2920167 12/05/19 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by rmns2bseen
Not saying that it [Casio's pivot length] has [changed], but whats your source?


We can find photos like e.g. these PX-330 dismantling photos: https://www.flickr.com/photos/timsphotographs/sets/72157632641890363/with/8427512829/

(E.g. by browsing https://www.casiomusicforums.com/ if it's okay to mention a fellow forum here.)

Then we can also have a look at spare parts and see that similar white keys go into everything between PX-x00 and PX-x35 series and then another kind into everything between PX-x50 and PXx70 series.

So my PX-800 photo is valid at least up to x35 models. (But Casio added the third sensor in x30 so the complete action is a little different.)

And a picture of e.g. a x60 series key also represents your PX-870.

Casio added the fake ivory and ebony finishes in the x50 series, so that might be the only difference between the keys. At least their dimensions look similar:

https://www.pacparts.com/part.cfm?sku=91087101323

https://www.pacparts.com/part.cfm?sku=91087104829

We also have this drawing from Casio confirming the dimensions of the x60 series (and the CDP-S and PX-S series):

[Linked Image]

Re: Any budget digital piano close to acoustic feeling?
DrGradus #2920248 12/05/19 05:07 PM
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OK, well good stuff, clothearednincompo. But this is puzzling:
Quote
Casio added the fake ivory and ebony finishes...
You mean like everybody else's fake ebony and ivory finishes? Oh, I forgot. Sometimes they're "textured keys" or whatnot, depending on the price and maker.

Re: Any budget digital piano close to acoustic feeling?
rmns2bseen #2920271 12/05/19 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by rmns2bseen
You mean like everybody else's fake ebony and ivory finishes?


Yes, exactly.

Everybody uses fake ivory instead of real. The ebony of course could be real in case of wooden black keys. But in plastic keys any ivory or ebony is fake regardless of the brand and the price.

Originally Posted by rmns2bseen
Oh, I forgot. Sometimes they're "textured keys" or whatnot, depending on the price and maker.


Yes they are "textured keys" and they attempt to resemble ivory and ebony, so they are "fake ivory" and "fake ebony". I don't think Casio has any BrandName(TM) for their key surface, so it's just "fake ivory".

Re: Any budget digital piano close to acoustic feeling?
clothearednincompo #2920272 12/05/19 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by clothearednincompo
Originally Posted by rmns2bseen
You mean like everybody else's fake ebony and ivory finishes?


Yes, exactly.

Everybody uses fake ivory instead of real. The ebony of course could be real in case of wooden black keys. But in plastic keys any ivory or ebony is fake regardless of the brand and the price.

Originally Posted by rmns2bseen
Oh, I forgot. Sometimes they're "textured keys" or whatnot, depending on the price and maker.


Yes they are "textured keys" and they attempt to resemble ivory and ebony, so they are "fake ivory" and "fake ebony". I don't think Casio has any BrandName(TM) for their key surface, so it's just "fake ivory".


Er, excuse me. Synthetic Ivory, if you please!


"I am not a man. I am a free number"

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Re: Any budget digital piano close to acoustic feeling?
rmns2bseen #2920275 12/05/19 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by rmns2bseen
]You mean like everybody else's fake ebony and ivory finishes? Oh, I forgot. Sometimes they're "textured keys" or whatnot, depending on the price and maker.


Fake ivory is good. Steinway uses plain white plastic, which some people don't really like as it can get slippery.

None of the textured finishes feel like real ivory. I think they might be an improvement in many ways. Real ivory feels "cool", but some people don't like the texture.



Last edited by johnstaf; 12/05/19 07:06 PM.
Re: Any budget digital piano close to acoustic feeling?
peterws #2920281 12/05/19 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by peterws
Er, excuse me. Synthetic Ivory, if you please!


Is that an actual name used by Casio?

If not, then "synthetic ivory" would be ivory grown in a lab instead of being grown by elephants.

Casio keytops are just part of the key itself and made of plastic. Not any kind of ivory, natural or synthetic.

Re: Any budget digital piano close to acoustic feeling?
DrGradus #2920283 12/05/19 07:34 PM
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Regardless of what anyone wants to call them, I really like the texture of the Casio keys. I have pretty sweaty fingers, and I much prefer this texture over the smoother keys of various acoustics I have played. I'm curious... do all of the newer Casio models have this same texture?

Re: Any budget digital piano close to acoustic feeling?
camperbc #2920302 12/05/19 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by camperbc
Regardless of what anyone wants to call them, I really like the texture of the Casio keys. I have pretty sweaty fingers, and I much prefer this texture over the smoother keys of various acoustics I have played. I'm curious... do all of the newer Casio models have this same texture?

The Casio Celviano models (GP-300 / GP-400 / GP-500) have the slipperiest keys I have ever played on. Not very suitable for sweaty fingers. Which is unfortunate, as everything else about them is totally amazing.

Last edited by Burkie; 12/05/19 09:07 PM.

Piano is one of the best human inventions of the past 320 years - help evangelize the magic!
Re: Any budget digital piano close to acoustic feeling?
rmns2bseen #2920303 12/05/19 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by rmns2bseen
Originally Posted by Burkie
Originally Posted by rmns2bseen
Originally Posted by Burkie

Stop conflating keys and hammers. They're two different parts.
We're still waiting for your evidence that the Yamaha N3X has fake keys.

Idiotic. The hammers are the keys' reason for being there in the first place. If the key is not manipulating a hammer to strike strings to produce a tone, it's not a plain old "actual" piano.


Ok, so since you refuse to verify your own wild claims I have done it for you.

The Yamaha N3X uses a real piano action with the same wooden keys as they do in their acoustic grand pianos:
https://usa.yamaha.com/products/musical_instruments/pianos/avantgrand/n3x/features.html

'the all-important key action, which the AvantGrand series has inherited from Yamaha’s esteemed concert grand pianos'

But. It's. Still. Not. A. Grand. Piano.

You were specifically referring to its keys and action.

It's better than most acoustic grand pianos as it doesn't require frequent tuning.

You're on the wrong forum if you're going to try and claim acoustic pianos are superior!

Last edited by Burkie; 12/05/19 09:16 PM.

Piano is one of the best human inventions of the past 320 years - help evangelize the magic!
Re: Any budget digital piano close to acoustic feeling?
DrGradus #2920320 12/05/19 11:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Burkie
You were specifically referring to its keys and action.

It's better than most acoustic grand pianos as it doesn't require frequent tuning.

You're on the wrong forum if you're going to try and claim acoustic pianos are superior!
No, a digital piano that doesn't require frequent tuning is more *convenient*. A digital piano is to a quality concert acoustic as an electric cello is to a Goffriller. You can put $400 strings on that thing but it's still not going to be a cello. Same with electric violins or the Yamaha silent guitar.

Re: Any budget digital piano close to acoustic feeling?
camperbc #2920324 12/05/19 11:52 PM
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Originally Posted by camperbc
Regardless of what anyone wants to call them, I really like the texture of the Casio keys. I have pretty sweaty fingers, and I much prefer this texture over the smoother keys of various acoustics I have played. I'm curious... do all of the newer Casio models have this same texture?


Yes, I believe so.


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Re: Any budget digital piano close to acoustic feeling?
rmns2bseen #2920340 12/06/19 03:38 AM
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Originally Posted by rmns2bseen
[quote=Burkie] A digital piano is to a quality concert acoustic as an electric cello is to a Goffriller. You can put $400 strings on that thing but it's still not going to be a cello. Same with electric violins or the Yamaha silent guitar.

Yes a different instrument with its own merits and capabilities. Both the electric cello and digital pianos are used with ever increasing use in contemporary live performances.

Re: Any budget digital piano close to acoustic feeling?
spanishbuddha #2920359 12/06/19 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by spanishbuddha
Originally Posted by rmns2bseen
[quote=Burkie] A digital piano is to a quality concert acoustic as an electric cello is to a Goffriller. You can put $400 strings on that thing but it's still not going to be a cello. Same with electric violins or the Yamaha silent guitar.

Yes a different instrument with its own merits and capabilities. Both the electric cello and digital pianos are used with ever increasing use in contemporary live performances.

Yeah, I agree. I'm not necessarily denigrating digitals. For me they're more practical and I enjoy practicing even on my relatively inexpensive one, and I'm sure the higher end models have a lot more to offer as well (I just don't feel I need that right now). And I'm sure students can learn technique on a digital with an acceptable action. I'm just saying that an acoustic action is what it is, and a digital's is a simulation. That doesn't mean that DPs, electric cellos or Yamaha silent guitars aren't fun, interesting and beneficial to have and play.

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