Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.7 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Who's Online Now
55 registered members (AudreyJean, David B, albydooby, AZNpiano, AprilE, ChatNoir, akc42, cmoody31, ando, 10 invisible), 1,165 guests, and 493 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Surge protection for your home DP? #2919785 12/04/19 03:40 PM
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 3,812
G
Gombessa Offline OP
3000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
3000 Post Club Member
G
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 3,812
I have my DP plugged into a power strip that has a surge protection feature, which is plugged into a wall outlet.

Over the last couple of weeks, we been having winter storms, and when this happens we occasionally get minor power spikes or brownouts.

I normally turn the DP off when it's not in use, but this one day, we had left it on after our daughter practiced. I left the house for a while, and when I returned, my wife reported that the piano made a really loud electroinc note/crash noise. Unfortunately I wasn't there to hear it myself. I think she said it happened right after she saw a nearby lightning strike. None of the lights blew out, no clocks reset, so it wasn't an outage.

I looked it over and there was nothing wrong with the DP, but it made me wonder - should I get a UPS or some thing with more robust surge protection feature? Is it common for DPs or speaker systems to squelch like that with electrical fluctuation?


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
(ad) SWEETWATER Lowest Prices
Re: Surge protection for your home DP? [Re: Gombessa] #2919788 12/04/19 03:49 PM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 233
N
nicknameTaken Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
N
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 233

Re: Surge protection for your home DP? [Re: Gombessa] #2919794 12/04/19 04:28 PM
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 331
Bruce In Philly Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 331
I use and recommend a TrippLite LC2400 or LC1800. I have the LC2400 units around my home... I use them for the home theater, another AV room, my computer room, and one for my keyboard and associated amps mixer etc.

The 2400 give you the full 20 amps if you have 20 amp lines in your home.... the 1800 unit if you have 15 amp.... just check the values denoted on your circuit breakers. You can use an 1800 unit on a 20 amp circuit and honestly, for keyboards and other home electronics, you will never tax the 1800 unit. I just want to get the most should I need it.

This unit conditions/filters, protects from lightening etc., and flips transformer taps to hold the voltage fairly constant during brown outs and surges. I purchased all of my units on eBay... typically they are used in data center applications and I never purchased a bad one.... I have four in the house. If you purchase from eBay, just make sure it has a standard three-prong plug (all should)... sometimes, data centers use locking plugs and you can special order them from TrippLite... most you buy will have the standard three-prong plug. Right now I see a few for under $100... I would not hesitate to buy them.

I am hyper paranoid about power... it can kill equipment. I had horrible power living in center city Philly.... long story but my tube amplifiers on my home music system would go into oscillation due to low voltage. PECO denied the problem. I also would get weird hum..... anywho... this unit solved my problems and protects the equipment. Only negative is that you can hear the clicks when the transformer taps are switched... but then you know you are having a power incident and the unit reacted properly. Highly recommended.

https://www.tripplite.com/2400w-120v-power-conditioner-automatic-voltage-regulation-avr-ac-surge-protection-6-outlets~LC2400
https://www.tripplite.com/1800w-120v-power-conditioner-automatic-voltage-regulation-avr-ac-surge-protection-6-outlets~LC1800

Peace
Bruce in Philly


Peace
Bruce in Philly
Re: Surge protection for your home DP? [Re: Gombessa] #2919797 12/04/19 04:29 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,920
MacMacMac Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,920
The best surge protector is homeowner's insurance. Add a rider for the piano. Simple. And cheap.

Re: Surge protection for your home DP? [Re: Gombessa] #2919798 12/04/19 04:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,617
N
newer player Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
N
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,617
There are good quality electric conditioning and protection units which can help.

But it is good practice to fully unplug valuable electronic equipment when not in use.

Re: Surge protection for your home DP? [Re: Gombessa] #2919799 12/04/19 04:40 PM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 456
S
Sweelinck Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
S
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 456
The electrician who replaced the panel in our house installed a whole house surge protector but indicated to me that we still needed individual surge protectors for low draw electronics like computers, TVs, and audio equipment. That’s because surges at current/amp levels too low to trigger the whole house protector can still damage electronics.

A commonly occurring surge event is when power service is restored after an outage. It is not a bad idea to unplug equipment when the power is out and plug back in after power is restored. We had such an event take out the motherboard of a refrigerator before we had the whole house protector. The whole house protector is not a panacea— if it is triggered, you will lose all power until it is replaced, but still is a net win from a safety perspective.


Login name is a tribute to Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck, arguably the historically first great keyboard virtuoso.
Re: Surge protection for your home DP? [Re: Gombessa] #2919811 12/04/19 05:07 PM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 747
L
Learux Offline
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
L
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 747
Just buy a tripplite surge protector and don't worry about it.

Tripplite


When you play, never mind who listens to you. R.Schumann.

Casio GP-400
Schimmel SP-182T
Re: Surge protection for your home DP? [Re: Gombessa] #2919843 12/04/19 06:23 PM
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 3,812
G
Gombessa Offline OP
3000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
3000 Post Club Member
G
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 3,812
Thanks all for the helpful responses.

Re: insurance + piano rider - yes I already have that, but I'd prefer not to have to use it and go through the claims process.

Re: Tripp-Lite suppressors - this seems to be the crowd favorite. I'll look into these more, as I still don't have a good sense whether my standard power strip was insufficient (would it have prevented the piano from emitting a loud tone in a situation where there clearly wasn't any electrical blow-out?). Is this a solution for a different problem?

Re: unplugging equipment when not used - ha! That's not going to happen. I unplug my blender and keep it in a cabinet, but it's just not practical to unplug the piano, computers, TV, lamps, etc. on a daily/hourly basis.

Re: unplugging during a lightning storm or after a blackout - this I could see as a good practice to follow.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Surge protection for your home DP? [Re: Gombessa] #2919866 12/04/19 07:20 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 8,474
Tyrone Slothrop Offline
8000 Post Club Member
Offline
8000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 8,474
I have a small UPS that I put my N1X on, but mainly to preserve my settings (I leave the piano always on). These days UPSes are fairly inexpensive.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Surge protection for your home DP? [Re: Gombessa] #2919879 12/04/19 08:06 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,920
MacMacMac Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,920
The N1X doesn't allow you to store settings?

Well, maybe there's an alternative. My old Clav can send all "panel" settings over MIDI to a host computer.
And the piano can accept MIDI commands to set any parameter that might ordinarily be set manually from the controls.
I presume this makes it possible (though tedious) to save and restore settings. (But I've never tried this.)

Maybe the much newer N1X can do this? Maybe even in a better fashion?

Re: Surge protection for your home DP? [Re: MacMacMac] #2919923 12/04/19 11:01 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 8,474
Tyrone Slothrop Offline
8000 Post Club Member
Offline
8000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 8,474
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
The N1X doesn't allow you to store settings?

You can save many, but not all settings. For example, it doesn't allow you to save reverb setting. (Just one of several things it doesn't allow you to save.) My workaround is a UPS and turning off the auto-off on the piano.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Surge protection for your home DP? [Re: Gombessa] #2919950 12/05/19 01:02 AM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 456
S
Sweelinck Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
S
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 456
Quote

Re: unplugging equipment when not used - ha! That's not going to happen. I unplug my blender and keep it in a cabinet, but it's just not practical to unplug the piano, computers, TV, lamps, etc. on a daily/hourly basis.

Regardless of cause, you want to unplug things of substantial value during a power outage and plug back in after the power service is restored. You certainly are not going to unplug your refrigerator whenever it rains.


Login name is a tribute to Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck, arguably the historically first great keyboard virtuoso.
Re: Surge protection for your home DP? [Re: Gombessa] #2920010 12/05/19 05:15 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,920
MacMacMac Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,920
I've never had an issue with these things, even after living for 31 years in the world's lightning capital (Florida).

I remember that 40+ years ago, when working for a repair shop, there was a repeat customer who had multiple "blowouts" presumably caused by lightning.
That included his refrigerator, and multiple other appliances.
I was not involved in those service calls (I didn't handle majaps), but the tech's talk was that this homeowner lived beyond the suburbs.
Such things didn't happen in the city, so it was said. (True? Dunno.)

Lightning protection was absent or ineffective because ... I really don't know why.
- Old home?
- Improper grounding?
- Bad wiring?
Who can say?
Is there an electrician in the (Piano World) house?

Re: Surge protection for your home DP? [Re: MacMacMac] #2920014 12/05/19 05:28 AM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 1,546
L
LarryK Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
L
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 1,546
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I've never had an issue with these things, even after living for 31 years in the world's lightning capital (Florida).

I remember that 40+ years ago, when working for a repair shop, there was a repeat customer who had multiple "blowouts" presumably caused by lightning.
That included his refrigerator, and multiple other appliances.
I was not involved in those service calls (I didn't handle majaps), but the tech's talk was that this homeowner lived beyond the suburbs.
Such things didn't happen in the city, so it was said. (True? Dunno.)

Lightning protection was absent or ineffective because ... I really don't know why.
- Old home?
- Improper grounding?
- Bad wiring?
Who can say?
Is there an electrician in the (Piano World) house?


When my expensive amplifier died after a transformer explosion in Queens, NY, I had to take it to a repair shop, namely, SoundSmith in Peekskill, NY. As my amplifier is rather rare, I asked the owner how they became the US repair center for the manufacturer. He told me that a woman in Florida had lost $300k worth of audio gear to a lightning storm, and that they fixed it all. After that, they were selected as an approved repair center for the manufacturer.

So, it’s probably pretty rare, but people do lose equipment to lightning strikes. I use the Weather Channel app on my phone to alert me of a lightning strike within a few miles of my apartment so I can unplug my gear. I bought a AudioQuest Niagara 5000 unit to provide some protection against over voltage situations.

In the end, it was discovered that a small part of the power supply had failed in my amp, and the techs did not find any burned sections, so perhaps it was an age related failure, but we don’t know for sure.

Last edited by LarryK; 12/05/19 05:35 AM.

Yamaha U1 Silent Piano
Re: Surge protection for your home DP? [Re: Gombessa] #2920089 12/05/19 09:07 AM
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 331
Bruce In Philly Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 331
Lightning is only one problem, the biggest is simple, common sagging and surging. This puts pressure on the power supply sections of your electronics and this stressing can lead to failure... usually a capacitor leaks/pops. As I understand it, most electronics failures occur at the power supply and this is due to electrical surging. The power supply in your electronics does a few functions, 1) Converts AC to DC, 2) provides a current reservoir to handle variable demand (does this with capacitors), and 3) provides hash filtering (for both sound quality and harm prevention). Of course with all electronics, how "good" the electronics are, in general, is due to both design quality and cost decisions.

What power supplies don't do is fix the power. For that, you need to hold voltage constant before it gets into the unit.... this is what the TrippLite units do (see above). This is what prevents damaging surges from getting into the unit, not just fuses that pop or filters that smooth (ala surge protectors).

I would think (hope?) that professional stage pianos have rugged power supplies due to the crazy environments where they may be used. But regardless, voltage fluctuations are what stresses electronics. These can occur from bad power transformers on your pole, other transmission issues, or big electrical items being switched on and off both in your homes and in your neighborhood. We all have seen our lights flicker when an appliance like a hair dryer or washer comes on and off. That TrippLite will react and filter those via the active transformer switching inside that box.

Simple power strip surge protectors will not do what the TrippLite does. On Amazon, the LC2400 is $204.... for a reason. Again, you can get them under $100 used on eBay.

BTW, it is easy to repair power supplies.... if your unit is just dead... pull off the cover/bottom, find the power supply, and look for any swollen or leaking capacitor. Read the numbers off of the side, order new ones, and solder in. You can usually fix these for under $10 yourself. Been there done that quite a few times resurrecting old equipment and computer monitors (when they were pricey).

Peace
Bruce in Philly

Last edited by Bruce In Philly; 12/05/19 09:15 AM.

Peace
Bruce in Philly
Re: Surge protection for your home DP? [Re: Bruce In Philly] #2920123 12/05/19 10:12 AM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 9
M
MaxF1 Offline
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
M
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 9
Here's a dumb question as I don't understand electronics: The Tripp lite line conditioners come in 600w, 1200w and 2400w versions. Which is suitable for one digital piano?

Thanks!

Re: Surge protection for your home DP? [Re: Bruce In Philly] #2920132 12/05/19 10:31 AM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 1,546
L
LarryK Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
L
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 1,546
Originally Posted by Bruce In Philly
Lightning is only one problem, the biggest is simple, common sagging and surging. This puts pressure on the power supply sections of your electronics and this stressing can lead to failure... usually a capacitor leaks/pops. As I understand it, most electronics failures occur at the power supply and this is due to electrical surging. The power supply in your electronics does a few functions, 1) Converts AC to DC, 2) provides a current reservoir to handle variable demand (does this with capacitors), and 3) provides hash filtering (for both sound quality and harm prevention). Of course with all electronics, how "good" the electronics are, in general, is due to both design quality and cost decisions.

What power supplies don't do is fix the power. For that, you need to hold voltage constant before it gets into the unit.... this is what the TrippLite units do (see above). This is what prevents damaging surges from getting into the unit, not just fuses that pop or filters that smooth (ala surge protectors).

I would think (hope?) that professional stage pianos have rugged power supplies due to the crazy environments where they may be used. But regardless, voltage fluctuations are what stresses electronics. These can occur from bad power transformers on your pole, other transmission issues, or big electrical items being switched on and off both in your homes and in your neighborhood. We all have seen our lights flicker when an appliance like a hair dryer or washer comes on and off. That TrippLite will react and filter those via the active transformer switching inside that box.

Simple power strip surge protectors will not do what the TrippLite does. On Amazon, the LC2400 is $204.... for a reason. Again, you can get them under $100 used on eBay.

BTW, it is easy to repair power supplies.... if your unit is just dead... pull off the cover/bottom, find the power supply, and look for any swollen or leaking capacitor. Read the numbers off of the side, order new ones, and solder in. You can usually fix these for under $10 yourself. Been there done that quite a few times resurrecting old equipment and computer monitors (when they were pricey).

Peace
Bruce in Philly


I didn’t dare open my expensive amplifier, for if it turned out that the problem was something deeper than the power supply, the service center could refuse to take it because there had been evidence of tampering. The guy who sold me the amp is an electrical engineer. He speculated on what had failed in the power supply, and turned out to be correct. If I had no other recourse, I’d have had him fix it but he is on the left coast and I am on the right coast so that would not be easy.

My amp requires a 20amp circuit. The Niagara 5000 has special outlets for devices that draw a lot of current, such as amplifiers. They maintain a reserve of power for such devices. I don’t believe a DP draws much current but you should look at the specs.

Last edited by LarryK; 12/05/19 10:31 AM.

Yamaha U1 Silent Piano
Re: Surge protection for your home DP? [Re: Bruce In Philly] #2920170 12/05/19 12:04 PM
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 3,812
G
Gombessa Offline OP
3000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
3000 Post Club Member
G
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 3,812
Originally Posted by Bruce In Philly
Lightning is only one problem, the biggest is simple, common sagging and surging.

Simple power strip surge protectors will not do what the TrippLite does. On Amazon, the LC2400 is $204.... for a reason. Again, you can get them under $100 used on eBay.


I think what we experienced was probably sagging/surging as a result of the storm, I find it highly unlikely that our houses suffered a direct lightning strike (we don't get a lot of lightning, and absolutely nothing was wrong with any of the electronics in the house).

Given what DID happen to the DP, the Tripplite seems to be well worth it from a peace-of-mind perspective, Thanks again for the reco.
Originally Posted by Bruce In Philly

BTW, it is easy to repair power supplies.... if your unit is just dead... pull off the cover/bottom, find the power supply, and look for any swollen or leaking capacitor. Read the numbers off of the side, order new ones, and solder in. You can usually fix these for under $10 yourself. Been there done that quite a few times resurrecting old equipment and computer monitors (when they were pricey).


I've heard a lot of stories about people getting killed messing with large caps that weren't discharged. While I'm sure there's are safe and cost-effective ways to make these repairs, I don't know enough where I'd risk that smile


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Surge protection for your home DP? [Re: Gombessa] #2920190 12/05/19 12:41 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 8,474
Tyrone Slothrop Offline
8000 Post Club Member
Offline
8000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 8,474
Originally Posted by Gombessa
I've heard a lot of stories about people getting killed messing with large caps that weren't discharged. While I'm sure there's are safe and cost-effective ways to make these repairs, I don't know enough where I'd risk that smile

The best piece of safety gear for that is a screwdriver with a nonmetallic handle. I used to mess around with humongous caps when I was a kid and am still alive. I'd always make sure I shorted the two terminals and counted to 3 before I'd fool around with the caps.

(At the time, I was building a CO2 laser to cut things with - fun stuff kids do... laugh laugh )


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Surge protection for your home DP? [Re: MaxF1] #2920204 12/05/19 01:17 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,177
M
MarkL Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
M
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,177
Originally Posted by MaxF1
Here's a dumb question as I don't understand electronics: The Tripp lite line conditioners come in 600w, 1200w and 2400w versions. Which is suitable for one digital piano?

A small digital with no speakers is probably less than 100W, I read somewhere on the forum that a guy measured his N3 at 500W. The more speakers and amplifiers, the more power. So a 600W model Tripp lite would be adequate for any digital piano.


Yamaha P90, Kawai GL-10
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Piano World 

ad
Rob Mullins Holiday Album
Rob Mullins Holiday Album

Rob is an amazing jazz pianist in LA,a composer, and a friend of mine.
Frank B. / Piano World
Shop our Store for Music Lovers!
Christmas Ornaments Music Theme
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Bechstein
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
NU1X or U1 Silent made in Indonesia (1 year used)
by Pianowill - 12/15/19 07:57 PM
Double sharp F in key of G
by FrankCox - 12/15/19 06:58 PM
Posters Ignorance is Bliss
by Mr Jazz Man - 12/15/19 04:11 PM
Recordings - and comparing pianos
by Colin Miles - 12/15/19 03:56 PM
Why are bridge pins so short?
by Ralphiano - 12/15/19 01:22 PM
What's Hot!!
Our August Newsletter is Out!
------------------
Mason & Hamlin Piano Factory Tour!

-------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics195,675
Posts2,902,030
Members95,249
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2019 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3