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Can satin finish blemish be repaired? #2919332 12/03/19 08:44 AM
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I was attempting to wipe some fingerprints from the top of my Yamaha grand using a very lightly dampened and well-wrung cloth, and like a dumb-dumb I wiped in circles, clouding the finish along the edge of the lid. There is now a quite noticeable clouded section that does not reflect clearly like the rest of the piano. I do not think it is deep or very severe, as I did not wipe the surface overly hard, but it is very noticeable, and I am trying to discern if I have irreparably damaged the finish, or if this can be repaired, or at least blended back into the surrounding finish and improved upon, made less noticeable, somehow.

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Re: Can satin finish blemish be repaired? [Re: Lord Speezwax] #2919412 12/03/19 01:15 PM
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Piano is a 1981 Yamaha G2, 5’6”. I have been recommended to try to use a microfiber cloth with ammonia-free glass cleaner, to see if the damp rag left a hard water residue on the finish. It may be possible that I abraised the wax in some way. Or that there is too much wax, or old wax on the surface of the piano, which is now 38 years old. If that is the case, I would be curious about what to do about it.

Last edited by Lord Speezwax; 12/03/19 01:20 PM.
Re: Can satin finish blemish be repaired? [Re: Lord Speezwax] #2919451 12/03/19 03:44 PM
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I wouldn't think that what you did caused any damage to a satin finish. Like Lord Speezwax said, I think you "disturbed" some residue that was already on the piano from some other cleaners or wax that had been used in the past

I use a microfiber cloth and solution of 1:1 white or cleaning vinegar and purified water. I am careful to always wipe my satin 1981 Steinway B in straight lines.

If there is a build up of some other type of cleaner or wax, it may take several applications to remove the clouded section. Invest in a few high quality microfiber clothes. . wink

Re: Can satin finish blemish be repaired? [Re: GC13] #2919508 12/03/19 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by GC13
I wouldn't think that what you did caused any damage to a satin finish. Like Lord Speezwax said, I think you "disturbed" some residue that was already on the piano from some other cleaners or wax that had been used in the past

I use a microfiber cloth and solution of 1:1 white or cleaning vinegar and purified water. I am careful to always wipe my satin 1981 Steinway B in straight lines.

If there is a build up of some other type of cleaner or wax, it may take several applications to remove the clouded section. Invest in a few high quality microfiber clothes. . wink


Thank you, that is useful advice. I am a bit new to the game, and not completely familiar with how piano finishes work. I want to be sure when cleaning with any type of product that I am not stripping away any wax, polish or varnish that I shouldn’t. Is there a way to know what the limit to what I should be “removing“ is?

Re: Can satin finish blemish be repaired? [Re: Lord Speezwax] #2919744 12/04/19 02:10 PM
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As long as you don't let the vinegar set on the finish for an extended period of time, it shouldn't do any serious damage to the base protection finish (polyurethane, etc).. I've always been told not to use any wax-based products on a piano's finish. Over time, the build up of wax-based polishes dull the finish, especially if it's a black satin finish. But I'd test it on a very small inconspicuous spot or two just to see how it goes. It should be kind of like cleaning a glass window or mirror. You don't want any residue left behind.

I use a sprayer to mist the vinegar/water onto the piano and immediately wipe it off. Sometimes it takes a couple of applications to get rid of fingerprints, etc. Make sure the lid is fully closed and the fallboard is down. I NEVER spray anything around the piano with the lid up. Cleaners can do a lot of damage to the hammers and action. When cleaning the music desk, keys, and fallboard, I always lightly spray the vinegar/water onto my cloth first, and then I wipe down the fallboard, music desk, and keytops. (Or I just do them last once my cloth is already damp from cleaning the rest of the piano.)

Re: Can satin finish blemish be repaired? [Re: Lord Speezwax] #2919791 12/04/19 03:52 PM
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Another option is to dewax using Milsek Furniture Polish. milsek.com
Apply generously. Let sit several hours. Turn the cloth as you buff off. Repeat until wax buildup is removed.

Last edited by daniokeeper; 12/04/19 03:52 PM.

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Re: Can satin finish blemish be repaired? [Re: GC13] #2919842 12/04/19 06:20 PM
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I tried using 1:1 distilled water and white vinegar, and it accomplished essentially the same effect, spreading the “clouded” area. But, when I put my eye down to the level of the piano lid so that the reflection of a lamp is coming right off that area, I can see that the reflection of light is actually brighter and more even where I wiped the surface. Where I have not wiped it, the reflection of the light is dimmer and uneven as I move my eye across the surface. Which makes me think I am actually just cleaning a dirty lid.

What confuses me is that the area I have not cleaned is slightly darker, as though it is of a higher gloss despite its less reflective texture. Although the surface becomes more even and reflective once I clean it, it also appears a bit more opaque, as though some gloss has been lost. Even though the uncleaned darker area is, upon closer inspection, actually less glossy. Jeez.

Perhaps this is the nature of a satin finish? Might be getting into the weeds on this issue here.


Last edited by Lord Speezwax; 12/04/19 06:22 PM.
Re: Can satin finish blemish be repaired? [Re: Lord Speezwax] #2919907 12/04/19 09:57 PM
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Can you upload pictures? That might help us give you some advice. I'm not familiar with the product danio keeper mentioned, but he is a piano tuner.

Re: Can satin finish blemish be repaired? [Re: GC13] #2919948 12/05/19 12:48 AM
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Originally Posted by GC13
Can you upload pictures? That might help us give you some advice. I'm not familiar with the product danio keeper mentioned, but he is a piano tuner.


It's just an oil furniture polish. It can be used safely to soften and remove wax buildup.


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Re: Can satin finish blemish be repaired? [Re: Lord Speezwax] #2919951 12/05/19 01:03 AM
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"The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -Marcus Aurelius
Re: Can satin finish blemish be repaired? [Re: Lord Speezwax] #2920105 12/05/19 09:28 AM
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Surface finish can be down to the microscopic level. Polishing removes the most atoms from the highest peaks and the result can be seen in a change in reflected light. Polyester is very hard and factory finishing involves large diameter and wide mops rotating at high speed. The peaks of the surface are thus removed very evenly. When this surface is subsequently disturbed by rubbing with a different material and in a different direction it is inevitable that the surface reflection will be different and possibly annoying.
Anyone who has attempted to spot T-Cut a car's metalic paint will experience the same issue as the embedded aluminium particle peaks will be smeared in a different direction to how they were embedded when sprayed on.
Weekly I use a feather duster on my piano. Infrequently I, linearly and without presssure, apply Cory High Gloss Piano Polish with the supplied microfibre cloth. This also available (from PW shop) as Cory Satin Sheen Polish.
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Re: Can satin finish blemish be repaired? [Re: GC13] #2920150 12/05/19 11:28 AM
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Lord Speezwax Offline OP
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Images of the piano are linked here:

Satin Finish Issue

thanks everybody.



Last edited by Lord Speezwax; 12/05/19 11:31 AM.
Re: Can satin finish blemish be repaired? [Re: Beemer] #2920153 12/05/19 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Beemer
Surface finish can be down to the microscopic level. Polishing removes the most atoms from the highest peaks and the result can be seen in a change in reflected light. Polyester is very hard and factory finishing involves large diameter and wide mops rotating at high speed. The peaks of the surface are thus removed very evenly. When this surface is subsequently disturbed by rubbing with a different material and in a different direction it is inevitable that the surface reflection will be different and possibly annoying.
Anyone who has attempted to spot T-Cut a car's metalic paint will experience the same issue as the embedded aluminium particle peaks will be smeared in a different direction to how they were embedded when sprayed on.
Weekly I use a feather duster on my piano. Infrequently I, linearly and without presssure, apply Cory High Gloss Piano Polish with the supplied microfibre cloth. This also available (from PW shop) as Cory Satin Sheen Polish.
Ian


Thank you for this reply. I think what you have described is my main concern. If wiping the surface of the piano with any type of moisture fundamentally alters the surface of the finish, how do people ever clean fingerprints or any dirt more adhesive than dust from their satin pianos, while keeping an even finish? And if indeed I have permanently altered the surface reflection by cleaning it in this way, what is the best way to proceed in restoring a nice finish to the lid?

I posted a link to some images in a post above.

Re: Can satin finish blemish be repaired? [Re: Lord Speezwax] #2920186 12/05/19 12:31 PM
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Link above was bad, still figuring out how to post links on these forums. Here is a link you can copy/paste to images of the piano:

https://imgur.com/gallery/ZcUtDpu

Re: Can satin finish blemish be repaired? [Re: Lord Speezwax] #2920213 12/05/19 01:45 PM
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That Milsek stuff looks good, it even says it will work for silicone based waxes like pledge. It helps knowing the piano has a polyester finish, that's pretty much resistant to any solvent.

Another option is to call someone who repairs furniture. They fix dents in furniture and then get the finishes to match, they'd have the right stuff to get the wax off and restore the original shine.


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Re: Can satin finish blemish be repaired? [Re: daniokeeper] #2920323 12/05/19 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by daniokeeper


I've never heard of Miksek before, but I may have to give it a try!

Re: Can satin finish blemish be repaired? [Re: Lord Speezwax] #2920466 12/06/19 06:33 PM
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1981 yamaha G2 walnut satin finish.CSP finish .under coat is polyuretane .top coat is half satin lacquer.
Repair of dirt, scratches, and glossy spots is as follows.
Yamaha genuine fix way.
Polish in the grain direction.

# 800 sandpaper + soapy water+sanding block(shallow scratch )
Scotch bright #7448+ rubbing compound#100 + soapy water+sanding block
Steel wool #0000+ rubbing compound#100 + soapy water+sanding block
Steel wool#0000+sanding block(dry)
Soft cloth+The half luster finish painting for the Yamaha PUH2 ピアノユニコン half luster painting, cleaner for exclusive use of the paintwork for the mat finish painting piano


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Pro-TAC tuning and repair service.
pro-tac.jpn.org/
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Re: Can satin finish blemish be repaired? [Re: Pro-TAC] #2922245 12/12/19 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Pro-TAC
1981 yamaha G2 walnut satin finish.CSP finish .under coat is polyuretane .top coat is half satin lacquer.
Repair of dirt, scratches, and glossy spots is as follows.
Yamaha genuine fix way.
Polish in the grain direction.

# 800 sandpaper + soapy water+sanding block(shallow scratch )
Scotch bright #7448+ rubbing compound#100 + soapy water+sanding block
Steel wool #0000+ rubbing compound#100 + soapy water+sanding block
Steel wool#0000+sanding block(dry)
Soft cloth+The half luster finish painting for the Yamaha PUH2 ピアノユニコン half luster painting, cleaner for exclusive use of the paintwork for the mat finish painting piano



This is great information, thank you! I do not understand exactly what the directions are saying, though. The issue I am having is glossy spots. Can anybody put this info into laymen’s terms for me?

Re: Can satin finish blemish be repaired? [Re: Lord Speezwax] #2922251 12/12/19 12:53 PM
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I think you should just have a touch up finish expert take care of the problem area. They can also touch up any other minor scratches etc. while they are there. You have gotten many pieces of advice, some easy and some complex and not all in agreement. Or ask the person who tunes your piano if they can deal with the problem.


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