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Re: hollow phantom tone at the bass break [Re: Key Surfer] #2913345 11/18/19 01:10 AM
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AWilley Offline
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I'm not hearing the phantom tone. The most distracting thing to my ears is the out-of-tune unisons. Second is some strong harmonics. Could you be hearing an upper harmonic as the phantom tone? (Like when you play B2, what pitch is the phantom tone? F#4 would be telling.)


Anthony Willey, RPT
PianoMeter
Willey Piano Tuning
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Re: hollow phantom tone at the bass break [Re: Key Surfer] #2913356 11/18/19 02:59 AM
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johnstaf Offline
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Not a tech, but what I hear on B and the notes above is different from what I hear on the notes below it. The B and C sound really strange to me.

Re: hollow phantom tone at the bass break [Re: Key Surfer] #2913435 11/18/19 09:56 AM
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Hakki Offline
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IMO it would be beneficial if you post another video with playing each note longer and and a couple of times. Also this time you might also mute and play single strings so that out of tune unisons get out of the discussion. Just an idea.

Re: hollow phantom tone at the bass break [Re: Key Surfer] #2919528 12/03/19 09:22 PM
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Key Surfer Offline OP
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Ed McMorrow - The customer complains about it not sounding right. Oddly enough she cannot hear the phantom tone but knows something isn't right.

Gene Nelson - I tried thumping the underside of the key bed in several places but got nothing. A couple months after this originally happened I could make the phantom sound change a little by applying pressure with a screw driver on the bridge next to the bridge pins of the affected strings. I could not find anything loose or unglued but thought I would try a screw at end of the bridge. That had no affect so I put a small diameter bolt and nut through the bridge and sound board to rule out any possibility of something loose but it had no affect. I left the bolt in it. I took a picture of it but have not been able to attach it. The you tube posting apparently is for videos only.


Key Surfer
Re: hollow phantom tone at the bass break [Re: Key Surfer] #2919708 12/04/19 12:58 PM
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Gene Nelson Offline
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Originally Posted by Key Surfer
Ed McMorrow - The customer complains about it not sounding right. Oddly enough she cannot hear the phantom tone but knows something isn't right.

Gene Nelson - I tried thumping the underside of the key bed in several places but got nothing. A couple months after this originally happened I could make the phantom sound change a little by applying pressure with a screw driver on the bridge next to the bridge pins of the affected strings. I could not find anything loose or unglued but thought I would try a screw at end of the bridge. That had no affect so I put a small diameter bolt and nut through the bridge and sound board to rule out any possibility of something loose but it had no affect. I left the bolt in it. I took a picture of it but have not been able to attach it. The you tube posting apparently is for videos only.


I was hoping the suggestion would give a clue as to the origin of the sound your hearing and would be somewhat similar to the noise I hear on the audio you posted - it still sounds like key bed related noise as opposed to soundboard related. Sometimes a softer front rail punching can help.


RPT
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Re: hollow phantom tone at the bass break [Re: Chernobieff Piano] #2921272 12/09/19 12:35 PM
Joined: May 2013
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Beemer Offline
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Originally Posted by Chernobieff Piano
The backscale has nothing to do with the dampers.
-chris

There is no backscale on a Yamaha GA1
Ian


I'm all keyed up
2016 Blüthner Model A
Re: hollow phantom tone at the bass break [Re: Key Surfer] #2921365 12/09/19 04:51 PM
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Key Surfer Offline OP
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To Gene N. - I tried thumping several differrent places on the bottom side of the key bed but got nothing.

Some months back I had tried compressing the bridge end with a screw but got nothing so I then put a small diameter bolt clear through with a nut just to rule out any issues. The bridge and bridge cap were not loose but I could make the tone different by applying pressure at the bridge end with a screw driver and since I couldn't find anything else wrong I gave it a shot just in case. This is a link to a picture of the bridge end
http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=86604267638082851317

To Ed M. - Yes the customer is complaining but oddly enough the customer doesn't hear the phantom tone she just knows it doesn't sound right.


Key Surfer
Re: hollow phantom tone at the bass break [Re: AWilley] #2921401 12/09/19 06:36 PM
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Goof Offline
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What I hear is that the hamer(s) are not faced square to the strings I have the same problem on my 53" upright at more or less the same position. I may resort to buying and fitting new base hammers of the type which have sides cut so that they align at the same angle as the over-strung strings.

Re: hollow phantom tone at the bass break [Re: Key Surfer] #2922713 12/13/19 08:44 PM
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Key Surfer Offline OP
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This is a test. For some reason my last two posts over the last two weeks do not appear in this thread.


Key Surfer
Re: hollow phantom tone at the bass break [Re: Key Surfer] #2922716 12/13/19 08:51 PM
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Key Surfer Offline OP
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I can see them now. I will try making another video after the New Year. Thanks everyone. Merry Christmas & Happy New Year.


Key Surfer
Re: hollow phantom tone at the bass break [Re: Key Surfer] #2923326 Yesterday at 10:13 PM
Joined: Aug 2013
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Ed Sutton Offline
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When you pressed on the bridge end you added impedance to the bridge end. Go under the piano and see if the beams will allow you to roll up and insert a sock or springy rag to press up on the bridge end from below. This is a way to voice down the "boom" at the end of a tenor bridge.
This is a short-scaled piano, and the low plainwire notes suffer the most. It is a design flaw which, once you hear it, you can't quite overlook it.
Also explore needling down the hammers of these low plainwire notes. (First test with the una corda to see if that helps.)
It is possible to replace the low tenor notes with wound strings, which may help smooth the transition across the break and make a better inharmonicity curve.

Last edited by Ed Sutton; Yesterday at 10:14 PM.

Ed Sutton, RPT
Just a piano tuner!
Durham NC USA
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