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Re: Kawai NV5 [Re: pppianomarc] #2918986 12/02/19 09:59 AM
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@Tyr What was you thoughts about the pedals?

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Re: Kawai NV5 [Re: pppianomarc] #2918993 12/02/19 10:16 AM
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Tyrone Slothrop Offline
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I find it interesting that the action is so much quieter on the NV5 than the N1UX.

Tyr, could you make a recording of you playing something, with the sound off so we can just hear the sound of your action? I'm wondering if there is something wrong with the action on your N1UX. Because the difference shouldn't be so big.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Kawai NV5 [Re: pppianomarc] #2919006 12/02/19 10:58 AM
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Tyr you make that nv5 sure sound promising, can't wait to try one!

Re: Kawai NV5 [Re: Boboulus] #2919007 12/02/19 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Boboulus
@Tyr What was you thoughts about the pedals?


The damper pedal is a bit on the heavier side due to the damper mechanism (similar to the NV10) which makes the action lighter when the pedal is pressed down. The control over the sustain effect works good. It doesn't feel uncomfortable.


Current: None
Ordered: Kawai Novus NV5
Re: Kawai NV5 [Re: pppianomarc] #2919010 12/02/19 11:05 AM
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Yes, I’m hoping for current NV10 owners to try this NV5 and further fill us in on the specifics.

If it turns out that even -more- NV10 owners feel that the NV5 indeed sounds ‘better’, that would be somewhat unexpected considering that the NV10 is supposed to be the flagship (sorry, Mac). smile

Re: Kawai NV5 [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2919012 12/02/19 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
I find it interesting that the action is so much quieter on the NV5 than the N1UX.

Tyr, could you make a recording of you playing something, with the sound off so we can just hear the sound of your action? I'm wondering if there is something wrong with the action on your N1UX. Because the difference shouldn't be so big.


The NU1X does have a "Noisy" action. I don't notice it but if I was playing on headphones with someone else in the room they would definitely hear it. I wonder if Kawaii took this into account when creating the keyboard for the NV5? On an acoustic the noise factor of the keyboard doesn't really matter but on a hybrid in some cases like for Tyr it could be an issue. This could be another area, in addition to the soundboard, where Kawaii is advancing the design of hybrid DPs.


Yamaha NU1X, Sennheiser HD 599 headphones, dabling with PianoTeq
Formerly known as oneilt130
Re: Kawai NV5 [Re: Peddler100] #2919015 12/02/19 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Peddler100
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
I find it interesting that the action is so much quieter on the NV5 than the N1UX.

Tyr, could you make a recording of you playing something, with the sound off so we can just hear the sound of your action? I'm wondering if there is something wrong with the action on your N1UX. Because the difference shouldn't be so big.


The NU1X does have a "Noisy" action. I don't notice it but if I was playing on headphones with someone else in the room they would definitely hear it. I wonder if Kawaii took this into account when creating the keyboard for the NV5? On an acoustic the noise factor of the keyboard doesn't really matter but on a hybrid in some cases like for Tyr it could be an issue. This could be another area, in addition to the soundboard, where Kawaii is advancing the design of hybrid DPs.

What is making the acoustical action quieter, then?


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Kawai NV5 [Re: pppianomarc] #2919016 12/02/19 11:13 AM
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I don't think Kawai took it into account by intent, to have a more quiet action. It's still louder than Non-Hybrid actions but not as loud as the NV10 or NU1X one.


Current: None
Ordered: Kawai Novus NV5
Re: Kawai NV5 [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2919105 12/02/19 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by Peddler100
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
I find it interesting that the action is so much quieter on the NV5 than the N1UX.

Tyr, could you make a recording of you playing something, with the sound off so we can just hear the sound of your action? I'm wondering if there is something wrong with the action on your N1UX. Because the difference shouldn't be so big.


The NU1X does have a "Noisy" action. I don't notice it but if I was playing on headphones with someone else in the room they would definitely hear it. I wonder if Kawaii took this into account when creating the keyboard for the NV5? On an acoustic the noise factor of the keyboard doesn't really matter but on a hybrid in some cases like for Tyr it could be an issue. This could be another area, in addition to the soundboard, where Kawaii is advancing the design of hybrid DPs.

What is making the acoustical action quieter, then?

They aren't, it's just that acoustic pianos are never played at such low volume where the action noise will be too apparent. The exceptions is silent/aptx/TS/Aures etc. and in these cases I think the action is as loud as in hybrids.

Last edited by johanibraaten; 12/02/19 03:29 PM.

"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein
Re: Kawai NV5 [Re: pppianomarc] #2919107 12/02/19 03:34 PM
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There's a lot you CAN do to quiet down the action in an acoustic piano, it's just never really been much of a necessity (I guess short of silent pianos).

You could damp the cabinet, use thicker/more felts, or different materials (e.g., as Kawai does on the stop bar), etc. The geometry probably matters too; I always feel like the NU1 has a short, stiff throw, which could be part of the reason its keys clack/thump fairly loudly. A keybed with different movement characteristics could sound very different...

But all of this is making the NV5 to sound like a very enticing instrument.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Kawai NV5 [Re: Tyr] #2919118 12/02/19 03:52 PM
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wow the NV5 looks better and better, thanks @Tyr. I was more focused on a CS11 (or successor) because of the price, but I need to start saving for the extra nv5 costs.

There are three german magazine reviews out, of which I know of. Not sure how "good" this magazines are. Just to whet your appetite laugh
bought them all eek

KEYBOARDS 2019 Nr. 3 https://www.keyboards.de
german:
"das ergebnis dieses setups ist ein piano-sound, welcher derart unfassbar nah an das spektrum eines akustischen pendants heranreicht, dass ein unwissender mit verbundenen augen die fehlenden saiten wohl nicht bemerken würde."

english (google translate):
"the result of this setup is a piano sound that is so incredibly close to the spectrum of an acoustic pendants that some with blindfolded eyes would probably not notice the missing strings."

OKEY 2019-11 https://www.okey-online.com
german:
"das spielgefühl ist außerordentlich ‘natürlich’ – eben weil die tastatur direkt aus dem akustischen instrument kommt. man vergisst, dass man eigentlich an einem digitalen instrument sitzt."

english (google translate):
"the playing feeling is extremely 'natural' - because the keyboard comes directly from the acoustic instrument. you forget that you are actually sitting at a digital instrument."

and

tastenwelt 2019 nr. 6 https://www.tastenwelt.de
German:
"das resultat sind haptik und anschlagverhalten, die einem echten Klavier absolut ebenbürtig sind. ... auch das repetitionsverhalten überzeugt und bleibt nur nuancen hinter einem echten Klavier zurück."

english (google translate):
"the result is haptics and impact behavior, which are absolutely equal to a real piano. ... also the repetition behavior convinces and only nuances remain behind a real piano."

Re: Kawai NV5 [Re: pppianomarc] #2919125 12/02/19 04:12 PM
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I believe those are not reviews, but rather advertising pieces. Am I right?
If I had a penny for every review claiming ‘it’s indistinguishable from the real thing’, I’d have a lot of pennies.

That being said, I am looking forward to hands-on (genuine) user reviews.
All hyperbole aside, the instrument does seem promising. I hope our expectations are surpassed (fingers crossed).

Re: Kawai NV5 [Re: johanibraaten] #2919136 12/02/19 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by johanibraaten
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
What is making the acoustical action quieter, then?

They aren't, it's just that acoustic pianos are never played at such low volume where the action noise will be too apparent. The exceptions is silent/aptx/TS/Aures etc. and in these cases I think the action is as loud as in hybrids.

Oh sorry. I should have been more clear. I was asking what makes the NV5 mechanical action so much quieter than the NU1X mechanical action. But I think Gombessa raised some possibilities.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Kawai NV5 [Re: pppianomarc] #2919159 12/02/19 05:50 PM
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Unless the noise comes from the stop rail shock, the main source of noise is the front rail. The front rail is actually just a pin under the front part of the keys with paper punchings and a thick felt shim on top of it. That's the main shock that comes from the movement of the key. There are two options to dampen it: make the felt softer and thicker than standard which is what created the infamous mushy feeling of CA-series. Or make better body insulation and since it's a proper piano action I doubt they messed it up with thicker felts, so probably they just created a better sound insulation.

I hope Tyr won't get it as picking on him but I notice a tendency of himself to change pianos often, starting with praises and ending with replacing with the next one smile So, I'll wait until he replaces it with his next piano (which will probably be an acoustic piano since he already owned all hybrid pianos) and then he will be fair about the NV5 wink

Last edited by CyberGene; 12/02/19 05:51 PM.

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Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Kawai NV5 [Re: CyberGene] #2919161 12/02/19 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
So, I'll wait until he replaces it with his next piano (which will probably be an acoustic piano since he already owned all hybrid pianos) and then he will be fair about the NV5 wink

As you have experienced yourself, with a baby so young, it will be a while before the Tyr family probably can go to a real acoustic smile


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Kawai NV5 [Re: Pete14] #2919162 12/02/19 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Pete14
I believe those are not reviews, but rather advertising pieces. Am I right?
If I had a penny for every review claiming ‘it’s indistinguishable from the real thing’, I’d have a lot of pennies.

That being said, I am looking forward to hands-on (genuine) user reviews.
All hyperbole aside, the instrument does seem promising. I hope our expectations are surpassed (fingers crossed).


As far as i can say, all of them are good sources for piano news with honest reviews. They are magazines, not shops (like bonners for example) that try to sell intruments.

But i agree with you, the best way to check is getting your hands on it by yourself.


Current: None
Ordered: Kawai Novus NV5
Re: Kawai NV5 [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2919163 12/02/19 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by johanibraaten
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
What is making the acoustical action quieter, then?

They aren't, it's just that acoustic pianos are never played at such low volume where the action noise will be too apparent. The exceptions is silent/aptx/TS/Aures etc. and in these cases I think the action is as loud as in hybrids.

Oh sorry. I should have been more clear. I was asking what makes the NV5 mechanical action so much quieter than the NU1X mechanical action. But I think Gombessa raised some possibilities.

I see, sorry for misunderstanding you:)


"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein
Re: Kawai NV5 [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2919164 12/02/19 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by CyberGene
So, I'll wait until he replaces it with his next piano (which will probably be an acoustic piano since he already owned all hybrid pianos) and then he will be fair about the NV5 wink

As you have experienced yourself, with a baby so young, it will be a while before the Tyr family probably can go to a real acoustic smile

Ohh, wait, he didn't have a N1X. So, I stand corrected. I will wait until he replaces it with a N1X.

Last edited by CyberGene; 12/02/19 06:01 PM.

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Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Kawai NV5 [Re: pppianomarc] #2919169 12/02/19 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
I hope Tyr won't get it as picking on him but I notice a tendency of himself to change pianos often, starting with praises and ending with replacing with the next one smile So, I'll wait until he replaces it with his next piano (which will probably be an acoustic piano since he already owned all hybrid pianos) and then he will be fair about the NV5 wink


Maybe i should have opened my own shop, then i would have all pianos under one roof. wink

To be honest: I just haven't planned to get a NV5 and i tried it only because it was on display in the shop. I was there to check the CS11 for the quiet keyboard action due to the situation at home. I played the CS11 in 4 different stores on different days to judge if i like it much enough to use it as a serious replacement. The NV5 is the very first of all Pianos i've ever played which gave me (literally) goose bumps from the first second playing and my interest and work into the CS11 idea went from 100 to 0. I can't describe it better to make it clear. All i can say is: If you have the chance, try it by yourself.


Current: None
Ordered: Kawai Novus NV5
Re: Kawai NV5 [Re: Tyr] #2919171 12/02/19 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyr
The NV5 is the very first of all Pianos i've ever played which gave me (literally) goose bumps from the first second playing and my interest and work into the CS11 idea went from 100 to 0. I can't describe it better to make it clear. All i can say is: If you have the chance, try it by yourself.

Wow. The power of the soundboard, I guess!

So is your wife happy or sad? Because even if quieter than your NU1X, the NV5 can't possibly be as quiet as the CS11.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
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