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Hi all,

I went and tried some pianos on the weekend. I went to a shop in Cambridge, they had Kawais, Hoffmans and Bechsteins.

The Kawai K300 felt really odd. The upweight just seemed really slow and sluggish, it's not what I expected from Kawai. I then got to try the A114 and I was blown away. The action was solid and responsive, the tone fantastic, and I can't believe how good the sound of the bass was for a piano of that size. I got to try the A124 afterwards and honestly I preferred the A114. The A124 sounded a bit more 'shouty' to me in it's tone. I suppose the treble felt harsher and bright. The A114 sounded mellow and sweet.

I'm thinking of getting one, does anyone have any input on these pianos? I've googled around and there isn't much info. Also does anyone know how good Bechstein's vario silent system is? I'm tempted to ask for that to be added too.

Thanks,

WTM

That model was just discussed a few weeks ago.

As far as the silent system, my experience playing with and without it on a Kawai K500 was that the difference in touch is noticeable but not dramatic. One of the piano techs explained why there is a difference, cant remember why but you could probably find it either on this forum or the piano tuners and technicians forum.

Do you recall how much the a124 and a118 went for?

The A114 is 2.5 times more expensive than the K300 so I would expect it to be better in most respects.

Going to try and go to the following shops this Friday but it'll be a lot of travelling so I might not make it all.

Essex -> Sussex Pianos, they have a Bechstein Academy 114 and Concert Classic 118 next to each other so I can try them side by side, they also have Samick, Petrof and Sauter.

Sussex Pianos -> Epping tube station -> Tube into London to Marksons Pianos - they list the following brands on their site: Bosendorfer, Bechstein, Feurich, Grotrian, Petrof, Steingraeber. So lot's to try there. I'll e-mail them to ask what models they have in store.

And then if I have time, go over to Bluthner London to try out some Bluthner Model D, C and A.

I'll let you all know how I get on.

I got to play an A124 several times recently and I love its wonderful sound. I have not played the A114. If it is in your price range, and you are ok with the action being on the lighter side, then I wouldn't hesitate. It's a lovely piano. I seriously considered buying it but bought the K-500 instead due to its practicalities. The K-500 will not be my last piano. Even though I much preferred the sound of the A124, I thought the action was too light for me. That is because one of my goals is to develop finger strength and on the A124, I would not be able to achieve that goal. Although I must admit, it's super easy to play.

I also played the Concert 8...well, let's just say don't play a piano if you can't afford it LOL! You'll be sad you can't bring it home! It's amazing. I loved it. It sounds like a long grand piano and its action is just right, not too light, not too heavy.

I'll be following your piano buying journey. Good luck and have fun!

I agree, These are wonderful instruments !

It's list price is more expensive than Shigeru SK-2 grand...
and many other grands, out of which maybe only Shigeru is around Tier 1...

For for that price, uless I would be constricted by space, grand is the one and only choice.

Alas, many people are constrained by space, especially in urban areas. I looked at the prices of the top tier uprights and figured that it would cost six to eight times the cost of one to cover the price differential of buying a larger apartment in New York City that would be more conducive to owning a grand.

Of course, I could put a grand in my current living room but it would overwhelm the space, although I have been told a previous owner did just that. My wife simply will not accept a grand piano in our current space. I’m lucky to have hammered out an agreement that allowed an acoustic upright to come in.

There is a market for high end acoustic uprights. Price is not the only factor to consider.

Alas, I most certainly am restricted by space.

You are absolutely right. For the price of the Concert 8, I would get an SK-2 or maybe even an SK-3 as I am not constrained by space. I am constrained by a lot of other things though.

I believe Larry Fine rates the Shigeru Kawai as Tier 3 “Distinguished” in the Performance piano class. New Piano Ratings.

Maybe before quoting Larry Fine, you should read this beforehand... It was also stated somewhere else, that due to change of parameters, that rank will vary from the previous ones.

This summary is not, strictly speaking, a ranking of quality; rather, it is intended as a description of how manufacturers and dealers position their products in the marketplace. That is, if a dealer carried every brand, how would he or she position those brands, in terms of relative quality, when presenting them to prospective purchasers?

For pianos intended for consumer use, this positioning is usually done along lines of price; for high-end and luxury instruments — where price is less likely to be a buyer’s primary concern — there is a rough pecking order based on reputation. As will be discussed later, while price and reputation are often associated with quality, that association is far from perfectly consistent. Nevertheless, in the larger picture and speaking very generally, price and reputation are associated with quality closely enough that this chart can be used as a rough guide to the quality of today’s new pianos, though not as a precise or authoritative one.

I wasn’t quoting Larry Fine, I just linked to the chart that shows Shigeru Kawai is not ranked as high as Bosendorfer or Steinway Hamburg for whatever reason. You are free to believe Shigeru Kawai are Tier 1 pianos.

It does not have anything to do with high quality grands.If someone
wants/needs a good quality upright that is a personal matter.The op
said he was interested in the Academy series C Bechstein (A114.or A124)
These are much cheaper than the higher series C Bechstein uprights.
About the A124 being "shouty" with the treble being a bit harsh and bright.
I would suggest that you ask the dealer to voice and tune the piano.You
should tell him about the harsh sound in the treble of the A124.
Have you tried any W Hoffman pianos ?

First shop down today.

Bechstein a114 - again different shop, different piano. But this one felt the best to me. The action is fantastic. The bass obviously for its size isn’t the best but it’s impressive for its size.

Bechstein concert 118 - I really liked the tone of this. But the action wasn’t as responsive, I think it needed some regulation. On top of that one of the notes was out of tune. Shame it wasn’t in top condition otherwise it might have convinced me that it’s worth it over the academy.

Bechstein a124 - very nice, worth the extra over the 114? Not sure. And again for me the 114 had by far the best regulated action.

Sauter 122 regazza + 116 Cosmo - the action was nice but I didn’t really like the tone.

Petrof 125/130 - these ones have a distinctly different action to the Sauter and Bechstein. It feels responsive but ‘softer’? I found the volume really easy to control on these. Very easy to play pp. the tone was pleasant too.


So far, the Sauters disappointed me. And again the a114 impressed me massively and the Petrof 125 did too.

The next shop I’m headed to now has Bechstein, Grotrian, Steingraeber and Bosendorfer. Hopefully the Bechstein s there are well regulated so I can judge them purely on tone.

After that I have one more stop and that’s to the Bluthner shop in London.

So far: leaning towards a Bechstein a114.

I am especially curious about your impressions of Bechstein vs Grotrian vs Steingrabers, who is since many years told to produce best upright in the world. I personally like the tone of Grotrian much, but waiting to see your impressions. I hope you will not play only Bechstein there

I would say the Bechstein K8 is known to produce the best
sound in the world. Here the OP is saying the A114 sounds
better ? Very unusual ?
The only thing that would me make me feel as the op feels would
be because of the price and that is understandable.
To say Steingraeber produces the best sound in the world is as subjective
as my own belief about the K8 ?
Sorry Udo !

I’m fairly sure I don’t want a Bechstein anymore.

I’ll sum up the brands as best I can:

Grotrian - concertino 124, out of my price range but the 113/114/118 are in my price range. Honestly the best tone from an upright piano I’ve ever heard, action was lovely too. The tone is mellow but not super mellow like Bluthner (which I’ll talk about later).

Steingraeber - actions were nice. The large upright had a sostenuto which was cool for an upright. The tone of these I really didn’t get on with. Too shouty for me.

Bosendorfer - underwhelmed me tbh. The action was rather heavy too. It’s nice and all, but I wouldn’t pay £30k+ for one.

Wilh. Streinberg - hadn’t heard of this brand before. They make some pianos on China some in Germany. The German ones action was the nicest upright action I’ve played. The tone however was similar to the Steingraeber and not to my tastes.

Bluthner - wow! I’d heard about them being mellow but I didn’t expect them to be this mellow. So warm. So mellow. The model C is a good price too. The actions were very nice not the best I’ve played thoigh.


So I’m stuck between the Grotrian and the Bluthner, both we’re lovely and I’ve realised I prefer a mellower tone. The question is, do I want Bluthner levels of mellow or Grotrian. I’ve got some thinking to do.

Bonus: Steingraeber grand piano was AMAZING, better than the bosendorfer grand next to it and better than a Steinway and Bechstein grand I’ve played in the past.

A would get a taller upright any day.Bigger soundboard, longer strings better overall sound.
Have you thought of a U3 or a YUS5 (for mellow )? The K500 Kawai is another great choice for a full sound.
I know some of these small European uprights may have quite a nice tone., There is just much
to said for a taller instrument.