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Re: Any budget digital piano close to acoustic feeling? [Re: DrGradus] #2918852 12/02/19 01:02 AM
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johnstaf Offline
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I find it disturbing how some people get really angry when others don't like their piano action.

I don't like the feeling of short keys when playing some pieces. I have a Kawai MP10, but I couldn't get along the the short keys so I bought a Roland FP90. Some people hate the Roland actions, and really DETEST the sound. I don't take other people's choice of piano as some kind of personal attack.

There are digitals with better actions than mine. That's just the way it is.

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Re: Any budget digital piano close to acoustic feeling? [Re: rmns2bseen] #2918856 12/02/19 01:22 AM
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Originally Posted by rmns2bseen
Originally Posted by Burkie
You specifically stated that the keys are not real.
Where is your evidence?! Or were you shooting from the hip?
A piano key is a lever that operates a hammer that strikes a taught string -- or group of strings -- that produce(s) a tone. There's my evidence. A digital piano key -- even a hybrid piano key -- is a simulation of that.

Stop conflating keys and hammers. They're two different parts.
We're still waiting for your evidence that the Yamaha N3X has fake keys.

Last edited by Burkie; 12/02/19 01:22 AM.
Re: Any budget digital piano close to acoustic feeling? [Re: rmns2bseen] #2918862 12/02/19 01:53 AM
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Originally Posted by rmns2bseen
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
However, in this case, akc42 said he owned the Casio AP-470. The Casio AP-470 uses the Tri-sensor Scaled Hammer Action Keyboard II, the identical action as is in the Casio PX-870. So with regard to the action at least, his comments are no longer uninformed.
Well I don't take any of it personally; I'm happy with the PX 870 while recognizing that, like everything else, it's not perfect. However, one recurring gripe about the Casio is its pivot point and inability to play close to the fallboard. 1. I really don't notice that problem and 2. Who plays that close to the fallboard anyway? I don't.


It was probably my own failings, but I was needing it in the first movement of the Moonlight Sonata. Its two years ago now, and I have not played the piece in a while - but in order to reach all the notes I had to position my hand so that some fingers ended up near the fallboard.

Re: Any budget digital piano close to acoustic feeling? [Re: Burkie] #2918871 12/02/19 02:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Burkie

Stop conflating keys and hammers. They're two different parts.
We're still waiting for your evidence that the Yamaha N3X has fake keys.

Idiotic. The hammers are the keys' reason for being there in the first place. If the key is not manipulating a hammer to strike strings to produce a tone, it's not a plain old "actual" piano. I'd say if it has electrical components at all it's about as much a piano as an electric violin is an Amati or a Yamaha silent guitar is a Daniel Friederich. Which is not to say that those aren't enjoyable to have and play.
Originally Posted by johnstaf
I find it disturbing how some people get really angry when others don't like their piano action.
I couldn't care less if people like Casio actions, or Roland. I'm happy with what I've got. What's irksome is to have people make negative pronouncements on primarily Casios when they obviously haven't played any for any length of time, other than maybe playing a slab seven or eight years ago. It's really not irksome, it's more amusing. You'll notice I've never said anything negative about Yamaha or Kawai or Roland. I don't have any actual, lengthy experience in playing any of those. It's disturbing that so many on the forum seem to have a kind of need to justify spending an extra thousand dollars or so by telling themselves and others that at least it's not that Casio crap with its, I dunno, horribly limiting "pivot point". grin

Re: Any budget digital piano close to acoustic feeling? [Re: DrGradus] #2918874 12/02/19 03:03 AM
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If I may join in late, the answer to the OP question is NO. crazy

Re: Any budget digital piano close to acoustic feeling? [Re: DrGradus] #2918876 12/02/19 03:06 AM
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^ I'll clarify: the hammers are the keys' reason for being there on a real piano. A digital piano has keys, but they're not the same...which is why you have to simulate that hammer action somehow. And yeah, a pipe organ has pipe organ keys that act in a pipe organ key way. A Hammond organ does too. A Hammond organ isn't a "real" organ either.

Re: Any budget digital piano close to acoustic feeling? [Re: spanishbuddha] #2918878 12/02/19 03:14 AM
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Originally Posted by spanishbuddha
If I may join in late, the answer to the OP question is NO. crazy

I disagree. The budget digital that I have comes close to many acoustics that I've played. In fact I'd say it's better than most uprights I've played. The things you won't get out of the box are the bigness of sound and the feelings of resonance going through you, and those are pretty big things. It comes down to whether "acoustic" means any acoustic piano, or one that's top of the line.

Re: Any budget digital piano close to acoustic feeling? [Re: rmns2bseen] #2918879 12/02/19 03:19 AM
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Originally Posted by rmns2bseen
.. at least it's not that Casio crap with its, I dunno, horribly limiting "pivot point". grin

Who claimed that? I never singled out Casio.

Last edited by Burkie; 12/02/19 03:19 AM.
Re: Any budget digital piano close to acoustic feeling? [Re: Burkie] #2918882 12/02/19 03:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Burkie
Originally Posted by rmns2bseen
.. at least it's not that Casio crap with its, I dunno, horribly limiting "pivot point". grin

Who claimed that? I never singled out Casio.

I didn't say you did. The sentiment is common enough.

Re: Any budget digital piano close to acoustic feeling? [Re: DrGradus] #2918905 12/02/19 04:24 AM
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I had a Casio AP-470 for 8 months, and in the end felt that both the action with its short pivot and the sound let it down. I am writing from a point of view of my own personal experience.

Why people assume that comments are made from others little personal experience I don't know.

Last edited by KevinM; 12/02/19 04:25 AM.
Re: Any budget digital piano close to acoustic feeling? [Re: johnstaf] #2918911 12/02/19 05:21 AM
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Originally Posted by johnstaf

Or haven't come across repertoire where it's unavoidable. It's not just about playing at the fallboard, but playing at the rear half of the key. The shorter the key, the greater the problem.

What has this got to do with Casio BTW?


In their lower range, Casio recently went from short pivot to even shorter pivot, to make their slabs even more portable I guess. I tried the PX-560 vs PX-S1000/3000 in a store and the new keys don't feel better to me. YMMV and I'm sure serious pianists may not have issues living with keys like that, but I think Kawai and Roland keys in this price range feel better.

Re: Any budget digital piano close to acoustic feeling? [Re: DrGradus] #2918912 12/02/19 05:24 AM
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Re: Any budget digital piano close to acoustic feeling? [Re: DrGradus] #2918918 12/02/19 05:57 AM
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AT Piano Lessons London by WKMTWKMT we use Kawai digitals and they are absolutely stunning. At the moment we have a CA 48 a CA 15 a CA 67 and a 98.

No other brand has provided us with the best results.


Juan Jose Rezzuto BMus(Hons.)FTCL Composition
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Re: Any budget digital piano close to acoustic feeling? [Re: DrGradus] #2918924 12/02/19 06:38 AM
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Let's discuss without getting nasty. No matter what you buy, it's possible someone might not like the brand. Who cares. If you like it that's all that matters. Is it really worth being unkind to defend a brand?


Ken

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Re: Any budget digital piano close to acoustic feeling? [Re: DrGradus] #2919167 12/02/19 06:15 PM
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It's amazing that there are far more comments of people fighting each other to defend subjective assessments than anything else. Maybe it is because I am a newbie, but I don't understand what is going on here.

Re: Any budget digital piano close to acoustic feeling? [Re: DrGradus] #2919170 12/02/19 06:21 PM
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Tyrone Slothrop Online Content
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Originally Posted by DrGradus
It's amazing that there are far more comments of people fighting each other to defend subjective assessments than anything else. Maybe it is because I am a newbie, but I don't understand what is going on here.

The interpersonal dynamics when people can hide behind online personas. I'm guilty of it myself. These avatars/forum handles allow one to be more forward that you would be in a face to face conversation. Is that good? Often it is bad.


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Re: Any budget digital piano close to acoustic feeling? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2919186 12/02/19 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
The interpersonal dynamics when people can hide behind online personas. I'm guilty of it myself. These avatars/forum handles allow one to be more forward that you would be in a face to face conversation. Is that good? Often it is bad.

I thought this is about piano, music and art. I didn't know I was posting on Twitter instead.

Re: Any budget digital piano close to acoustic feeling? [Re: DrGradus] #2919190 12/02/19 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by DrGradus
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
The interpersonal dynamics when people can hide behind online personas. I'm guilty of it myself. These avatars/forum handles allow one to be more forward that you would be in a face to face conversation. Is that good? Often it is bad.
I thought this is about piano, music and art. I didn't know I was posting on Twitter instead.

It is. HUMAN piano, HUMAN music, HUMAN art. Where Homo sapiens are involved, interpersonal dynamics comes into play. Homo sapiens are complex as 5000 yrs of recorded history has shown.


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across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Any budget digital piano close to acoustic feeling? [Re: DrGradus] #2919192 12/02/19 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by DrGradus
It's amazing that there are far more comments of people fighting each other to defend subjective assessments than anything else. Maybe it is because I am a newbie, but I don't understand what is going on here.

It happens when subjective assessments are presented as unassailable fact, and it happens on just about any forum dedicated to musical instruments associated with classical music. No "serious" musician would use this instrument, even for practice; no serious musician would use these strings or that edition or that rosin or a piano made by that company; this company's products are the best/worst; you must hold your hands this way or that way and sit like this or that, you must have a flute that's made out of silver/gold/platinum with French keys and a B-foot, or you're hopeless; no self-respecting musician would be caught dead with a plastic recorder; if you listen to CDs instead of getting your music via streaming you're a hopeless Luddite, and on and on and on and on. After a while all the fussiness gets tiresome.

Re: Any budget digital piano close to acoustic feeling? [Re: DrGradus] #2919201 12/02/19 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by DrGradus
It's amazing that there are far more comments of people fighting each other to defend subjective assessments than anything else. Maybe it is because I am a newbie, but I don't understand what is going on here.

Pivot length (along with static and dynamic key weightings) is the most objective assessment of any piano - if you can measure it then it's not subjective. Which subjective assessment are you referring to?

Why do you think Casio, Yamaha, Roland, Kawai, and Nord all put longer pivot length keys into their higher end pianos. Because it's proven to be advantageous by physics - it's not subjective.

Last edited by Burkie; 12/02/19 08:21 PM.
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