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Re: What made you decide to replace your piano?
AaronSF #2918208 11/30/19 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by AaronSF
Originally Posted by S. Phillips
I find that amateurs usually benefit more than professionals from a better piano with a well regulated action. Professionals of course love a piano that is finely set up but they have more experience dealing with pianos that aren't perfect and have had to learn to adapt.

Amateurs don't have that number of hours on a huge variety of instruments so they are helped much more if they don't have to struggle with poor action response. But it is much more than just the action. Newer strings, that are lively, coupled with a better soundboard design make a better piano have a singing tone that is necessary for even intermediate repertoire. I have many customers who are very surprised at what they can do on a better piano.


+1 As an amateur with a newish piano, I can confirm what Sally just said.

+2 I agree completely but for a slightly different reason. Practicing is so much more enjoyable that I just practice longer and I’m happier practicing every single day. I hope my playing improves with practice. Even if it doesn’t I’m still having fun. grin


J & J
Estonia L190 Hidden Beauty
Casio Privia PX-330
I don’t play well but I play far better than I sing.
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Re: What made you decide to replace your piano?
astrotoy #2918224 11/30/19 03:20 PM
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What a nice story!


David



Re: What made you decide to replace your piano?
Rickster #2918277 11/30/19 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Rickster

Also, be leery of the salespeople who brag on your playing, when you know it ain't so... smile


I used to teach 4th grade recorder class, so the bar is low, lol.

Seriously, though, I do try to be encouraging to beginners and intermediate players who are nervous about playing in the store. It's not easy to walk into a strange place and play in front of people you've never met.


Justin Johnson
Portland Piano Company
www.portlandpianocompany.com
Re: What made you decide to replace your piano?
Geusey #2918290 11/30/19 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Geusey
Originally Posted by Rickster

Also, be leery of the salespeople who brag on your playing, when you know it ain't so... smile


I used to teach 4th grade recorder class, so the bar is low, lol.

Seriously, though, I do try to be encouraging to beginners and intermediate players who are nervous about playing in the store. It's not easy to walk into a strange place and play in front of people you've never met.


Thank you! Really thank you. From all your grateful customers.


J & J
Estonia L190 Hidden Beauty
Casio Privia PX-330
I don’t play well but I play far better than I sing.
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Re: What made you decide to replace your piano?
JB_PW #2918706 12/01/19 06:41 PM
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I wish I had a more inspirational reason why I decided to replace my piano but I don't think I do. I replaced my piano simply because I got a good deal on a new one that was an upgrade over the one I already had.

Some may already know my story. Man needs digital piano because must reside in an apartment during the work week. Man buys digital piano and goes to store to retrieve piano. Mans walks out of store with digital piano and brand new Shigeru Kawai SK2.

I was offered a deal I couldn't say no to. J&J is right. It would have been far easier to just trade in my Kawai RX-2 or sell it to a dealer which his father (another dealer) was willing to do but at half the price I was expecting to sell it for. It took around 5 months to sell it on Pianomart and was delivered to its new owner 1200 miles away this past month. So it's not an easy decision to replace a piano. You have to be willing to take somewhat of a loss if you trade it into the dealer or bite your nails and hope someone is looking for your particular piano and that could take months- and if your piano is not a very desirable one it might never be sold.

I was told by a piano teacher decades ago to always buy the best acoustical piano I could afford because of the resale value potential. She was right and I was able to sell my Kawai RX-2 for about $1200 less than what I bought it for in 2007. Piano prices have gone up but in reality they haven't changed all that much in all those years.

I think the operative word that my teacher gave me in her advice was "afford", but you don't want to buy a poorly made piano nor would I recommend a digital (unless you have good reasons to- space, silent play) if you really want to get into this art. Digitals simply depreciate much faster than a well made acoustic piano and they do not sound or feel exactly like the real thing. I think one's first piano should be a consensus good quality (not necessarily expensive but at times worth to stretch your budget for) acoustic upright or baby grand. If you ever decide to give up on this art you can get a good bit of your money back or if you decide to upgrade like I did- same thing. I think the thing to look at is your budget and don't spend too little on a poor quality piano or just as bad go way outside your budget by buying a too expensive piano when you're just a beginner. That leads to buyer remorse and if it was sales talk (see Steinway's investment claims) then that would just give the industry a bad name and no one will want to buy a new piano anymore. I think there is a healthy cycle between buying and selling used and new pianos that's just healthy for the piano industry as a whole.

I think though that one thing to factor when buying a new piano or replacing an existing one is how much it will cost to actually learn to play the piano and that can and is usually recommended to include piano lessons. There was thread not too long ago about AI and the piano. I brought up the saying, "Art without meaning is mere decoration." Well I also think "Piano without the music is mere furniture". I think it is just as important to appreciate and plan for the learning side of this art as it is the purchasing side of this art.

In my case I'm actually more concerned about the beautiful music I can make from my piano(s) then I am about the specific tone, touch, appearance of the piano itself. I could have been happy with my Kawai RX-2 as my piano for a lifetime but because I got such a good deal on the SK2 I realized I could reasonably afford it and bought it on the spot. Having owned it now for a few months I have to be honest I say it absolutely does enhance my playing experience, but was it a necessity- no. I do derive a bit more of pleasure from my playing but it is not something I absolutely needed.

I've studied and still study piano under very accomplished classically trained pianists young and old. My current teacher is always performing has won several several international competitions. A couple of weeks ago she gave a recital playing all four Chopin Ballades and works by Shumann. She was visited back stage by noted retired Eastman pedagogue and world class pianist Rebecca Penneys who told her she loved her playing. What does she play at home? A digital piano. She has said to me however that it doesn't matter whether a piano is $500, $500, or $15,000 they are not the same as an acoustic. (She didn't have to tell me this because I already new). She just used the digital to "learn the notes" otherwise she used the school baby grands to practice. Point is most of the accomplished teachers I have had in the past don't necessarily have top end pianos in their homes- I'm sure the top 10 in the world must own some nice pianos at home but isn't a necessity to make phenomenal music. Helene Grimaude until much later in her career played only on an upright at home. Yes, an upright. I think these musical wunderkinds appreciate like I do (though trust me I was never a wunderkind) the music more than the instrument itself and I think that is what we need focus most our attention towards.



Last edited by Jethro; 12/01/19 06:47 PM.

Working on:

Bach/Busoni Chaconne in D minor BWV 1004
Preludio: Bach/Rachmaninoff E Major Sonata for Violin
Chopin: G Minor Ballade


Shigeru Kawai SK2
Kawai VPC-1
Re: What made you decide to replace your piano?
Geusey #2918731 12/01/19 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Geusey
I used to teach 4th grade recorder class, so the bar is low, lol.

Seriously, though, I do try to be encouraging to beginners and intermediate players who are nervous about playing in the store. It's not easy to walk into a strange place and play in front of people you've never met.


Thanks for popping in, Justin! I'll be visiting your store soon. Maybe I should warm up on "Hot Cross Buns"? smile

Jethro - I wasn't expecting "inspirational" stories! I have enjoyed everyone's input. The reason I posted this is because I feared it was silly to consider spending a big chunk of money to replace a piano that works, and is still able to help me reach my goals. But I am spending hours a day playing, and I hope to continue that for many years...so I'm at peace with the decision to buy a higher quality instrument. Now I just have to decide what I'm willing to pay.

I do take lessons by the way. Luckily my teacher is wonderful, and close, and for reasons I don't understand...dirt cheap.


I ❤️ Mendelssohn, Yann Tiersen, Heller
Re: What made you decide to replace your piano?
JB_PW #2918898 12/02/19 03:54 AM
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Hello everyone,

Part of the reason I joined the forum was to help in my decision to replace the spinet I had been practicing on since my middle teens. My parents we're very supportive of my learning to play the piano and tried their best to make sure I always had a way to practice. I started off on a electric keyboard (which I still have), then moved to an old electric organ. That broke and became a fire hazard, so back to the keyboard for a bit until they got me a Whiteman (exact spelling) spinet from a couple who's kids didn't play anymore. It honestly worked fine and held a tuning very well. I didn't even consider that I wanted a better piano until I walked into a local piano store and started playing different brands. I didn't even realize that they made better quality uprights that sound nice. I always assumed they were inferior because of all the broken-down old 1800 something uprights I was forced to practice on most of my youth. Being able to to play on a grand piano of any type was a rarity, and most of the time they were badly out of tune as well. To summarize, I just want a piano that I enjoy playing and listening to. I just got to try out a Bechstein, a few Seiler's, and a very nice Baldwin. All uprights and very nice! This has all been quite a bit of fun so far. All the piano store staff were friendly and three of them turned me loose on the floor for a while. Now that I have a better idea of what"I" want in a piano I can hopefully start to actually enjoy playing. In the meantime, my Heintzman is down for maintenance, and I'm back on my old electric keyboard, bringing everything full circle.

Re: What made you decide to replace your piano?
JB_PW #2919225 12/02/19 09:28 PM
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Piano shopping in December....good, bad, or neutral? Is it smarter to wait until after Christmas or the new year to get a better deal?


I ❤️ Mendelssohn, Yann Tiersen, Heller
Re: What made you decide to replace your piano?
D.P. #2919250 12/02/19 11:49 PM
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Originally Posted by D.P.
I didn't even consider that I wanted a better piano until I walked into a local piano store and started playing different brands. I didn't even realize that they made better quality uprights that sound nice. I always assumed they were inferior because of all the broken-down old 1800 something uprights I was forced to practice on most of my youth.


I think my current piano, at almost 50 years old, is probably the “newest” one I ever played until recent recitals.


I ❤️ Mendelssohn, Yann Tiersen, Heller
Re: What made you decide to replace your piano?
JB_PW #2919329 12/03/19 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by JB_PW
Piano shopping in December....good, bad, or neutral? Is it smarter to wait until after Christmas or the new year to get a better deal?


Many dealers do sales around Christmas to clear out sitting inventory (which pianos do take up quite a bit of floorspace) and make room for newer models. In January, many dealers go to the NAMM show to shop for new brands and models and some offer big sales in late January to early February.

Since you’re not trading in anything, you could most likely get the equivalent of a sale price anytime from a dealer because pianos sitting on the floor cost them money and interest. If you’re going to finance your piano, Yamaha and Bösendorfer offer 0% interest on new pianos.
I have to say from my own personal experience, I’ve always paid for any instrument with cash, I couldn’t stand the thought of the Repo Man coming for the Bösendorfer
eek


J & J
Estonia L190 Hidden Beauty
Casio Privia PX-330
I don’t play well but I play far better than I sing.
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Re: What made you decide to replace your piano?
JB_PW #2919364 12/03/19 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by j&j
Many dealers do sales around Christmas to clear out sitting inventory (which pianos do take up quite a bit of floorspace) and make room for newer models. In January, many dealers go to the NAMM show to shop for new brands and models and some offer big sales in late January to early February.

Since you’re not trading in anything, you could most likely get the equivalent of a sale price anytime from a dealer because pianos sitting on the floor cost them money and interest. If you’re going to finance your piano, Yamaha and Bösendorfer offer 0% interest on new pianos.

Great advice, j&j! thumb

Originally Posted by j&j
I have to say from my own personal experience, I’ve always paid for any instrument with cash, I couldn’t stand the thought of the Repo Man coming for the Bösendorfer eek

I've always paid cash for my pianos too, at the time of purchase. I just don't think I want to make monthly piano payments under any circumstances.

As for the repo man coming for your Bosendorfer, you'd have to be at home and open the door and let them inside; otherwise, they could not enter your home/residence without a court warrant, and most likely accompanied by law enforcement officers.

The car repo guy, on the other hand, can back up to your Mercedes pretty much anytime and anywhere, and be gone with it in less than 5 minutes... smile

But the 0% financing on the Yamaha and Bosendorfer pianos does sound like a good deal. smile

Rick





Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: What made you decide to replace your piano?
JB_PW #2919369 12/03/19 11:15 AM
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I take the 0% financing on Apple computers and calculate a monthly payment to pay it off in 18 months so as to not pay any interest. I’m a no debt/cash kind of guy but I don’t see any harm in stretching out the payments in this way.

Are Yamaha and Bosendorfer the only piano manufacturers who will do 0% financing? Of course, you can sell more pianos if you make it easier for people to buy them with 0% financing.

Last edited by LarryK; 12/03/19 11:16 AM.
Re: What made you decide to replace your piano?
JB_PW #2919380 12/03/19 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by LarryK
I take the 0% financing on Apple computers and calculate a monthly payment to pay it off in 18 months so as to not pay any interest. I’m a no debt/cash kind of guy but I don’t see any harm in stretching out the payments in this way.

Are Yamaha and Bosendorfer the only piano manufacturers who will do 0% financing? Of course, you can sell more pianos if you make it easier for people to buy them with 0% financing.

You are wise, Larry. I'm not much of a business person, or an accountant, or financial manager, or anything close. But I do know that someone who pays cash for everything and has little or no credit history can be in trouble in the event they ever want to used credit or financing for a purchase. I know it doesn't seem fair, but I've seen it happen to friends on occasion.

It is amazing just how valuable your credit history and credit score really is, unless you are a millionaire or billionaire. And, wise use of credit, (0%interest, etc...) is a good thing to help build and maintain your credit score.

I've mentioned this before, although I don't want to get too OT here. Many years ago I worked as a field representative for a financial lending firm. In other words, I was a bill collector. Can you believe that? I know it doesn't match my personality, but I sure did learn some good people skills when I had that job. I also learned that, quite often, those who have large incomes tend to overextend themselves the most, usually. Again, that was a very long time ago, but still a valuable learning experience.

One of the most valuable life-lessons I learned from that job experience is to never overextend yourself when it comes to the use of credit. Another life experience that I learned is that having a good credit history, and a high credit score is an invaluable resource.

Sorry for rambling on, but I'm retired now, and procrastinating going outside and raking leaves in my yard... smile

Best wishes to JB_PW!

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: What made you decide to replace your piano?
JB_PW #2919392 12/03/19 12:27 PM
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Thanks all. I'm getting pretty excited about this so I doubt I can force myself to wait until February! May depend on prices though.

Financing is not a concern, although I may take advantage of 0% if it's available. It's annoying to see my credit score start dropping since I don't currently have any loans. Not that it's low...but hey, why not keep that cash earning interest in the bank for awhile longer?

I do plan to ask about the possibility of a trade-in, but I'm fully prepared to be laughed at. smile


I ❤️ Mendelssohn, Yann Tiersen, Heller
Re: What made you decide to replace your piano?
JB_PW #2919396 12/03/19 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by JB_PW
I do plan to ask about the possibility of a trade-in, but I'm fully prepared to be laughed at. smile

Oh, they won't laugh at you to your face; but they might behind your back... smile

But I'd definitely ask about the trade-in, if nothing else but to help make room for your new piano!

Okay, enough rambling on.. time to go outside and rake leaves. smile

Please keep us informed!

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: What made you decide to replace your piano?
JB_PW #2919399 12/03/19 12:43 PM
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Do you know what the credit card companies call people who pay off their cards every month?

Deadbeats!

Ba da boom!

It is funny how they will keep raising your credit limit in the hopes that eventually they'll give you enough rope to hang yourself. Overall, it must work for them.

Re: What made you decide to replace your piano?
JB_PW #2920727 12/07/19 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by JB_PW
Just curious to hear what factors led people to upgrading from a piano that was still functional and maybe "good enough."


I purchased a high quality upright for my very first piano. This piano was perfectly satisfactory for my family's needs, and under normal circumstances, this would have been the last piano I ever bought.

I did occasionally get to play on some high end grand pianos, and I loved their touch and sound. But, who in their right mind would pay $50,000 or more to buy one of those, I always thought.

Then, a unique opportunity came along.

One of my colleagues at work was going through a bitter divorce. The divorce settlement was going to leave her without a house and without a lot of money (I told her she needed a better lawyer!). One of the assets she retained was a Steinway Model O, inherited from her grandmother. It was in terrible condition both inside and out. When you pressed a key, hardly any sound came out. The mahogany veneer had darkened and cracked like an old painting. As she didn't play and her next home would be a small apartment, she decided to store the piano in an unconditioned storage locker. I knew if she did that, years would pass and the cycles of cold and heat/humidity would ruin it beyond repair. Thus, even though I wasn't in the market for a piano, I decided almost on a whim to save this piano.

She offered it to me for free, but being fair minded, I paid her a few thousand for it - the amount the local Steinway dealer had appraised it for.

To make a long story short, I sent it off to Steinway in NYC where I had both the inside and outside completely restored. It looks and plays like brand new, and it puts my old upright (since sold) to shame. I get a lot of satisfaction playing it, but equally, I get satisfaction from having rescued one of the dwindling number of vintage Steinway pianos from destruction.

John


1922 Steinway Model O, restored by Steinway Restoration Center, 2016. PianoDisc, installed 2017.
Re: What made you decide to replace your piano?
JB_PW #2920746 12/07/19 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by jcgee88
I purchased a high quality upright for my very first piano. This piano was perfectly satisfactory for my family's needs, and under normal circumstances, this would have been the last piano I ever bought.

I did occasionally get to play on some high end grand pianos, and I loved their touch and sound. But, who in their right mind would pay $50,000 or more to buy one of those, I always thought.

Then, a unique opportunity came along.

One of my colleagues at work was going through a bitter divorce. The divorce settlement was going to leave her without a house and without a lot of money (I told her she needed a better lawyer!). One of the assets she retained was a Steinway Model O, inherited from her grandmother. It was in terrible condition both inside and out. When you pressed a key, hardly any sound came out. The mahogany veneer had darkened and cracked like an old painting. As she didn't play and her next home would be a small apartment, she decided to store the piano in an unconditioned storage locker. I knew if she did that, years would pass and the cycles of cold and heat/humidity would ruin it beyond repair. Thus, even though I wasn't in the market for a piano, I decided almost on a whim to save this piano.

She offered it to me for free, but being fair minded, I paid her a few thousand for it - the amount the local Steinway dealer had appraised it for.

To make a long story short, I sent it off to Steinway in NYC where I had both the inside and outside completely restored. It looks and plays like brand new, and it puts my old upright (since sold) to shame. I get a lot of satisfaction playing it, but equally, I get satisfaction from having rescued one of the dwindling number of vintage Steinway pianos from destruction.

John

Nice piano story, John, and a nice piano! thumb

I do love a good piano adventure, especially with a happy ending! smile

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: What made you decide to replace your piano?
Rickster #2920777 12/07/19 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Rickster
Originally Posted by jcgee88
I purchased a high quality upright for my very first piano. This piano was perfectly satisfactory for my family's needs, and under normal circumstances, this would have been the last piano I ever bought.

I did occasionally get to play on some high end grand pianos, and I loved their touch and sound. But, who in their right mind would pay $50,000 or more to buy one of those, I always thought.

Then, a unique opportunity came along.

One of my colleagues at work was going through a bitter divorce. The divorce settlement was going to leave her without a house and without a lot of money (I told her she needed a better lawyer!). One of the assets she retained was a Steinway Model O, inherited from her grandmother. It was in terrible condition both inside and out. When you pressed a key, hardly any sound came out. The mahogany veneer had darkened and cracked like an old painting. As she didn't play and her next home would be a small apartment, she decided to store the piano in an unconditioned storage locker. I knew if she did that, years would pass and the cycles of cold and heat/humidity would ruin it beyond repair. Thus, even though I wasn't in the market for a piano, I decided almost on a whim to save this piano.

She offered it to me for free, but being fair minded, I paid her a few thousand for it - the amount the local Steinway dealer had appraised it for.

To make a long story short, I sent it off to Steinway in NYC where I had both the inside and outside completely restored. It looks and plays like brand new, and it puts my old upright (since sold) to shame. I get a lot of satisfaction playing it, but equally, I get satisfaction from having rescued one of the dwindling number of vintage Steinway pianos from destruction.

John

Nice piano story, John, and a nice piano! thumb

I do love a good piano adventure, especially with a happy ending! smile

Rick



+1 Love happy piano ending stories.



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Re: What made you decide to replace your piano?
JB_PW #2920919 12/08/19 10:45 AM
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That's a great story John! How long did the restoration take?

Sooooooo.....I went piano shopping Friday. I tried quite a few new pianos - Seiler, Baldwin, Yamaha, Grotrian, Schimmel; also a used Petrof and Mason & Hamlin. For my ears and fingers, there was a clear winner: the Seiler. It's 49" with the magnetic action. The only problem is that it does not have a sostenuto pedal (I'd also prefer a separate desk/lid, but oh well). My teacher strongly suggested I get the sostenuto for more advanced repertoire. However, I'm having a hard time making that a deal-breaker when I know I might not miss it for 4-5 years (or more).

I could have gotten a Yamaha YUS5, which is 52" and has every feature I would ever need. But neither the action or the sound excited me. Am I crazy?? This is clearly a fantastic piano. Next week the dealer will have a Kawai K800 available for me to try. If I fall in love with that one, great...it has everything. But otherwise, I might just compromise on the pedal and if/when I need it I'll just have to look into upgrading. Maybe there will be more options available at that time.

What would you all do in this situation? Get the "better" piano and hope you love it more after it's settled in your home?

JB


I ❤️ Mendelssohn, Yann Tiersen, Heller
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Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
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Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
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