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Re: What made you decide to replace your piano? [Re: dogperson] #2917332 11/28/19 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by dogperson
Due to the age and condition of your piano, don’t be surprised if it has little to no value to a dealer. If that is the case, consider donating to a needy child

https://pianoadoption.com/


That's really cool, thanks!


I ❤️ Mendelssohn, Yann Tiersen, Heller
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Re: What made you decide to replace your piano? [Re: joe80] #2917336 11/28/19 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by joe80
In my case, I needed more dynamic range and a faster action. I'd gone as far as I could with an old English upright. I'd owned a Challen and a Knight, the Knight wore out very quickly because I practised on it for between 6 and 7 hours a day in the days when I needed to do that amount of practice, and I completely wore it out - hammers, string breakages, action parts breaking, it just couldn't cope with the workload and it was going to cost more to fix than buying a better instrument would have cost. By that time I was studying in the conservatoire so I also used their good pianos.


I like to see instruments that are worn out through use. My classical guitar teacher put an amazing amount of playing wear on his guitar during his time at Juilliard. That’s what it takes to succeed, lots and lots of practice time, and that means wear.


Yamaha U1 Silent Piano
Re: What made you decide to replace your piano? [Re: JB_PW] #2917378 11/28/19 03:14 PM
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You need a new piano! Look at both new and used pianos. Take your time. Find your dream instrument. I guarantee you will find it eventually, and chances are your playing will improve quite a bit with a decent instrument. I see you're in Oregon. Portland has three piano stores with a good assortment of instruments: Portland Piano, Classic Pianos, and Michelle's Pianos.


August Förster 215
Re: What made you decide to replace your piano? [Re: JB_PW] #2917634 11/29/19 09:51 AM
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Take your time. Visit a lot of dealers and just play everything you can find. You will eventually come to a conclusion about your needs. While price is sometimes an issue, my advice is to buy the best piano you can afford at the time and don't worry about whether or not you will have to trade up later. You can buy a better piano and trade it in a couple of years for an even better one. I have one customer that has traded four times in 30 years. It is just a matter of being patient with a purchase.

Most dealers are perfectly happy with a potential customer coming in with a stack of music to play through. I love it when customers feel comfortable visiting and playing. Also tell the sales folks what your goals are. In some cases they may be able to order just what you need or they may know of a trade coming in that is perfect.


Sally Phillips
Owner/ Technician
Piano Perfect, LLC
Steinway & Sons Pianos
Columbus, GA
New Steinway, Boston and Essex pianos
www.steinwaypiano.com
Acoustic Piano Technical Consultant - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
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Re: What made you decide to replace your piano? [Re: S. Phillips] #2917669 11/29/19 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by AaronSF
chances are your playing will improve quite a bit with a decent instrument.


Really? Don't get my hopes up. smile

I am in the Portland area so I do plan to visit all 3 in December or January.


Originally Posted by S. Phillips
Most dealers are perfectly happy with a potential customer coming in with a stack of music to play through. I love it when customers feel comfortable visiting and playing.


I doubt I'll be comfortable in the slightest! I'm only intermediate and I get very nervous playing in front of people. I know I've got to do it though. I just hope to pick a quiet time when there aren't a lot of people milling about or playing the other pianos and distracting me. Other than that it should be a fun process!


I ❤️ Mendelssohn, Yann Tiersen, Heller
Re: What made you decide to replace your piano? [Re: JB_PW] #2917670 11/29/19 11:12 AM
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S. Phillips Offline
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Originally Posted by JB_PW
Originally Posted by AaronSF
chances are your playing will improve quite a bit with a decent instrument.


Really? Don't get my hopes up. smile

I am in the Portland area so I do plan to visit all 3 in December or January.


Originally Posted by S. Phillips
Most dealers are perfectly happy with a potential customer coming in with a stack of music to play through. I love it when customers feel comfortable visiting and playing.


I doubt I'll be comfortable in the slightest! I'm only intermediate and I get very nervous playing in front of people. I know I've got to do it though. I just hope to pick a quiet time when there aren't a lot of people milling about or playing the other pianos and distracting me. Other than that it should be a fun process!


Sally Phillips
Owner/ Technician
Piano Perfect, LLC
Steinway & Sons Pianos
Columbus, GA
New Steinway, Boston and Essex pianos
www.steinwaypiano.com
Acoustic Piano Technical Consultant - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
http://www.pianobuyer.com/current-issue/07a-should-i-have-my-piano-rebuilt.html
Re: What made you decide to replace your piano? [Re: JB_PW] #2917671 11/29/19 11:13 AM
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S. Phillips Offline
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Go early in the morning as soon as the store opens. Most stores are quiet then.


Sally Phillips
Owner/ Technician
Piano Perfect, LLC
Steinway & Sons Pianos
Columbus, GA
New Steinway, Boston and Essex pianos
www.steinwaypiano.com
Acoustic Piano Technical Consultant - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
http://www.pianobuyer.com/current-issue/07a-should-i-have-my-piano-rebuilt.html
Re: What made you decide to replace your piano? [Re: JB_PW] #2917683 11/29/19 11:40 AM
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You are in for a "fun" piano adventure. Play as many as you can and you will eventually find a piano "that has your name on it".



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Re: What made you decide to replace your piano? [Re: JB_PW] #2917690 11/29/19 11:53 AM
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You should be realistic in your expectations. A better piano is not likely to enable you to hit the proper notes more often, as the shape of the keyboard is the same. You should be able to play with better control of timing and dynamics. You can get the latter to some extent with proper maintenance of the piano you have, but a better piano will be even better, as long as you maintain it.


Semipro Tech
Re: What made you decide to replace your piano? [Re: JB_PW] #2917700 11/29/19 12:12 PM
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Rickster Offline
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Originally Posted by BDB
You should be realistic in your expectations. A better piano is not likely to enable you to hit the proper notes more often, as the shape of the keyboard is the same. You should be able to play with better control of timing and dynamics. You can get the latter to some extent with proper maintenance of the piano you have, but a better piano will be even better, as long as you maintain it.

+1 thumb

Also, be leery of the salespeople who brag on your playing, when you know it ain't so... smile

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: What made you decide to replace your piano? [Re: JB_PW] #2917718 11/29/19 12:57 PM
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I find that amateurs usually benefit more than professionals from a better piano with a well regulated action. Professionals of course love a piano that is finely set up but they have more experience dealing with pianos that aren't perfect and have had to learn to adapt.

Amateurs don't have that number of hours on a huge variety of instruments so they are helped much more if they don't have to struggle with poor action response. But it is much more than just the action. Newer strings, that are lively, coupled with a better soundboard design make a better piano have a singing tone that is necessary for even intermediate repertoire. I have many customers who are very surprised at what they can do on a better piano.


Sally Phillips
Owner/ Technician
Piano Perfect, LLC
Steinway & Sons Pianos
Columbus, GA
New Steinway, Boston and Essex pianos
www.steinwaypiano.com
Acoustic Piano Technical Consultant - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
http://www.pianobuyer.com/current-issue/07a-should-i-have-my-piano-rebuilt.html
Re: What made you decide to replace your piano? [Re: JB_PW] #2917726 11/29/19 01:14 PM
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dogperson Offline
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Rickster
I can understand a salesman reflexively making a positive comment about a customer’s playing while still being honest about the pianos. In fact, I personally have had that experience.

We just look at dealers differently, I suppose.


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
" I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho

It’s ok to be a Work In Progress
Re: What made you decide to replace your piano? [Re: JB_PW] #2917746 11/29/19 02:17 PM
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As well as the "one time deal if you buy now" (or similar) routine. You MIGHT want to read the book "Grand Obsession" by Perri Knize first, or in conjunction with your search.

Pwg


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Re: What made you decide to replace your piano? [Re: Rickster] #2917756 11/29/19 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Rickster
Originally Posted by BDB
You should be realistic in your expectations. A better piano is not likely to enable you to hit the proper notes more often, as the shape of the keyboard is the same. You should be able to play with better control of timing and dynamics. You can get the latter to some extent with proper maintenance of the piano you have, but a better piano will be even better, as long as you maintain it.

+1 thumb

Also, be leery of the salespeople who brag on your playing, when you know it ain't so... smile

Rick

Oh Rick - say it ain’t so. My piano salesman is my most devoted fan! grin


J & J
Estonia L190 Hidden Beauty
Casio Privia PX-330
Pianos - the reason God made trees!
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Re: What made you decide to replace your piano? [Re: Rickster] #2917762 11/29/19 03:23 PM
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NobleHouse Offline
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Originally Posted by Rickster
Originally Posted by BDB
You should be realistic in your expectations. A better piano is not likely to enable you to hit the proper notes more often, as the shape of the keyboard is the same. You should be able to play with better control of timing and dynamics. You can get the latter to some extent with proper maintenance of the piano you have, but a better piano will be even better, as long as you maintain it.

+1 thumb

Also, be leery of the salespeople who brag on your playing, when you know it ain't so... smile

Rick



I wish anybody would "brag on my playing", but alas....



[Linked Image]
Re: What made you decide to replace your piano? [Re: JB_PW] #2917764 11/29/19 03:31 PM
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Rickster Offline
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Originally Posted by j&j
Originally Posted by Rickster
Originally Posted by BDB
You should be realistic in your expectations. A better piano is not likely to enable you to hit the proper notes more often, as the shape of the keyboard is the same. You should be able to play with better control of timing and dynamics. You can get the latter to some extent with proper maintenance of the piano you have, but a better piano will be even better, as long as you maintain it.
+1 thumb

Also, be leery of the salespeople who brag on your playing, when you know it ain't so... smile

Rick

Oh Rick - say it ain’t so. My piano salesman is my most devoted fan! grin

Well, in your case, j&j, you probably deserve the accolades and compliments from your piano salesperson. smile

In my case, I figured it was flattery and part of the sales pitch. But I like to hear compliments on my playing as well as anyone.

Fact is, flattery will usually get you somewhere with most people, and it works with me too. We all have our weaknesses... smile

So, yea, flattery has its place and can be an effective tool, whether a sales tool or other...

Now back to piano shopping advice... smile

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: What made you decide to replace your piano? [Re: JB_PW] #2917768 11/29/19 03:39 PM
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When we got married (we celebrate our 49th anniversary in two weeks), my engagement ring to my bride was a used Kawai Grand (IIRC a Model 500) which I bought for $1250 in 1970. Her father had her old upright shipped to us from Hong Kong to California(he was in the shipping business, so the shipping was free) and we had two pianos. We started playing duets, she would play the hard part and I would play the easier part. We started with the first movement of the Schumann Piano Concerto (and I would fake the orchestral accompaniment). She had the famed Adolph Baller as one of her teachers. He had a Boesendorfer and she fell in love with that piano. Over the years, we saw the occasional Boesie at local piano stores, including, around 1984, a Model 200 which was around $38,000, much too much money for us. Baller's piano had been one of the bigger models, with more than 88 keys, and those were in the $60K+ or more price range (I think the 290 Imperial may have been over $80K back then.) We were in Europe for the first time together in 1985, and decided on a lark to visit the famed piano section of Harrod's in London which had rows upon rows of grand pianos, including some of the most famous names and models (no Steinways however, since they had a big London store at the time.) What was surprising was that Bosendorfers were much less expensive at Harrods (not known for lower prices) than in the US. The Model 200 was less than $20K (compared with double in the US) and the 225 (with 92 keys) was less than $30K. I was intrigued, $20K was a stretch, but possible. My wife reminded me that Harrods was not the place for bargains and we visited the Bosendorfer dealer in London, where the prices were 20% lower than Harrods. We told them our vacation plans to visit Paris and Vienna and he generously gave the name of the Bosendorfer dealer in Paris, Daniel Magne, which was our next stop. Prices in Paris were even lower than in London and he arranged a visit to the Boesendorfer factories in Vienna and Wiener Neustadt. Things were getting serious. After the Vienna visits, my wife picked out her favorite of four 225's in the Bosendorfer Vienna factory where they did the final voicing and adjustments of the pianos. We returned to Paris and settled on the price and shipping terms, all in French Francs (well before the Euro). The US dollar was at an all time high and including air freight to our home in the SF Bay Area, the total cost of our new 225 was less than $24,000!

We sold the HK spinet and had two grands. A few years later, our finances had improved and we bought our Yamaha S400E with a Disklavier mechanism to replace the Kawai. We still play some duets, but mostly we both have the choice of the Bosie or the Yamaha to play.

The two grands got their biggest workout last April, when we had a home concert with Jon Nakamatsu playing the Rachmaninoff Second Piano Concerto with his long time accompanist (who started accompanying Jon when Jon was nine years old!, all through his early career to winning the Cliburn competition and beyond). Jon played the Bosie and his accompanist Chris played the Yamaha.


Boesendorfer 225 (1985)
Yamaha S400E (predecessor to CF4) Disklavier (1992)
Re: What made you decide to replace your piano? [Re: JB_PW] #2917861 11/29/19 07:32 PM
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49 years, that's amazing! Great story.


I ❤️ Mendelssohn, Yann Tiersen, Heller
Re: What made you decide to replace your piano? [Re: astrotoy] #2918052 11/30/19 09:07 AM
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Congratulations Astrotoy on your long marriage, yours and your wife’s very successful piano journey together and your amazing pianos.


J & J
Estonia L190 Hidden Beauty
Casio Privia PX-330
Pianos - the reason God made trees!
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Re: What made you decide to replace your piano? [Re: S. Phillips] #2918191 11/30/19 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by S. Phillips
I find that amateurs usually benefit more than professionals from a better piano with a well regulated action. Professionals of course love a piano that is finely set up but they have more experience dealing with pianos that aren't perfect and have had to learn to adapt.

Amateurs don't have that number of hours on a huge variety of instruments so they are helped much more if they don't have to struggle with poor action response. But it is much more than just the action. Newer strings, that are lively, coupled with a better soundboard design make a better piano have a singing tone that is necessary for even intermediate repertoire. I have many customers who are very surprised at what they can do on a better piano.


+1 As an amateur with a newish piano, I can confirm what Sally just said.


August Förster 215
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