2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.9 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

Who's Online Now
67 registered members (barbaram, BachToTheFuture, Carey, Anglagard44, bobrunyan, Amy H, 21 invisible), 372 guests, and 491 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3
Re: Three quarters of young Brits unfamiliar with Mozart [Re: patH] #2917454 11/28/19 07:40 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 26,690
pianoloverus Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 26,690
Originally Posted by patH
Some people may believe Bach is still alive, but the writer of the article implies that Adele is dead or retired. "94% knew Adele was a singer". WTF? She still is!

Don't point your fingers at young people when your knowledge of pop music is worse.
It was most likely an error in tense and not lack of knowledge of pop music.

Piano & Music Gifts & Accessories (570)
Piano accessories and music gift items, digital piano dolly, music theme party goods
Re: Three quarters of young Brits unfamiliar with Mozart [Re: patH] #2917456 11/28/19 07:47 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,198
johnstaf Online Crying
3000 Post Club Member
Online Crying
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,198
Originally Posted by patH
Some people may believe Bach is still alive, but the writer of the article implies that Adele is dead or retired. "94% knew Adele was a singer". WTF? She still is!
.


I don't think it implies that at all. This type of construction is standard usage and is not an error. "I didn't know you're a singer" would be less common.

Last edited by johnstaf; 11/28/19 07:50 PM.
Re: Three quarters of young Brits unfamiliar with Mozart [Re: patH] #2917457 11/28/19 07:52 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 12,873
B
bennevis Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 12,873
Originally Posted by patH
Don't point your fingers at young people when your knowledge of pop music is worse.

Why not?

Bach and Mozart have shown their worth by their staying power over centuries, and by how they keep getting re-invented by each generation, how they are revered and loved by subsequent composers and musicians in all generations, and how much they still influence today's media.

For instance, take movies: I've lost count of how often Mozart's music has been used in movies - not just in English and German. Bach comes close. How many movies has Adele been in? Just one, to my knowledge.

And their music gets performed all over the world (not just in Western countries)......every second of every day, someone somewhere is playing or performing Mozart and Bach. What about poor Adele?

There is just no comparison...... smirk


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: Three quarters of young Brits unfamiliar with Mozart [Re: johnstaf] #2917461 11/28/19 08:05 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 5,532
dogperson Offline OP
Silver Subscriber
5000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
Silver Subscriber
5000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 5,532
Originally Posted by johnstaf
Originally Posted by patH
Some people may believe Bach is still alive, but the writer of the article implies that Adele is dead or retired. "94% knew Adele was a singer". WTF? She still is!
.


I don't think it implies that at all. This type of construction is standard usage and is not an error. "I didn't know you're a singer" would be less common.


‘Was’ is the singular past tense of ‘to be’. Standard usage means ‘no longer is’


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
" I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho

It’s ok to be a Work In Progress
Re: Three quarters of young Brits unfamiliar with Mozart [Re: dogperson] #2917464 11/28/19 08:54 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,198
johnstaf Online Crying
3000 Post Club Member
Online Crying
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,198
Originally Posted by dogperson

‘Was’ is the singular past tense of ‘to be’. Standard usage means ‘no longer is’


They didn't say "Adele was a singer". Language is idiomatic and you can't really isolate the meaning of one word. If you walked into a room and someone's presence surprised you, would you really say "I didn't know you are sitting there"?

If they had said "They didn't know Adele used to be a singer", it would be a different matter.

Sorry I'm obsessed with this stuff. grin

Last edited by johnstaf; 11/28/19 09:03 PM.
Re: Three quarters of young Brits unfamiliar with Mozart [Re: johnstaf] #2917465 11/28/19 09:04 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 5,532
dogperson Offline OP
Silver Subscriber
5000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
Silver Subscriber
5000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 5,532
Originally Posted by johnstaf
Originally Posted by dogperson

‘Was’ is the singular past tense of ‘to be’. Standard usage means ‘no longer is’


They didn't say "Adele was a singer". Language is idiomatic and you can't really isolate the meaning of one word. If you walked into a room and someone's presence surprised you, would you really say "I didn't know you are sitting there"?

If they had said "They didn't know Adele used to be a singer", it would be a different matter.


don’t believe me, look it up in an English grammar text book.


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
" I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho

It’s ok to be a Work In Progress
Re: Three quarters of young Brits unfamiliar with Mozart [Re: dogperson] #2917469 11/28/19 09:29 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,198
johnstaf Online Crying
3000 Post Club Member
Online Crying
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,198
I have looked it up in grammar texts. The use of the sequence of tenses is summarised in this link.
https://www.englishgrammar.org/sequence-tenses/

Last edited by johnstaf; 11/28/19 09:31 PM.
Re: Three quarters of young Brits unfamiliar with Mozart [Re: johnstaf] #2917470 11/28/19 09:37 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 5,532
dogperson Offline OP
Silver Subscriber
5000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
Silver Subscriber
5000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 5,532
Originally Posted by johnstaf
I have looked it up in grammar texts. The use of the sequence of tenses is summarised in this link.
https://www.englishgrammar.org/sequence-tenses/


Your link states that the tense of the verb in the subordinate clause can change to match the main verb
In this case, the main verb of ‘ know’ should have a subordinate verb of ‘is’.

I am only providing what I was taught as an English major, maybe your training is more current. I see no reason to continue this OT dialogue.





Last edited by dogperson; 11/28/19 09:38 PM.
Re: Three quarters of young Brits unfamiliar with Mozart [Re: dogperson] #2917471 11/28/19 09:44 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,198
johnstaf Online Crying
3000 Post Club Member
Online Crying
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,198
The main verb was in the past tense. They didn't know.

Fair enough. Let's leave it at that.

I didn't study English, but had to do linguistics research after my music degree.

Re: Three quarters of young Brits unfamiliar with Mozart [Re: dogperson] #2917472 11/28/19 09:45 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,414
Tyrone Slothrop Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,414
Oh! A lovely English grammar debate on an esoteric point! And darn, my copy of the definitive Quirk & Greenbaum is in storage due to my current flat renovation. Oh, what to do? smirk (Slinks away trying not to be noticed...)


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Three quarters of young Brits unfamiliar with Mozart [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2917473 11/28/19 09:49 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,198
johnstaf Online Crying
3000 Post Club Member
Online Crying
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,198
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Oh! A lovely English grammar debate on an esoteric point! And darn, my copy of the definitive Quirk & Greenbaum is in storage due to my current flat renovation. Oh, what to do? smirk (Slinks away trying not to be noticed...)


We'll be waiting when you get it back. grin

Re: Three quarters of young Brits unfamiliar with Mozart [Re: dogperson] #2917474 11/28/19 09:56 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,198
johnstaf Online Crying
3000 Post Club Member
Online Crying
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,198
I'd love to know what composers my classmates had heard of. In school we didn't have musical training, but we did learn the instruments of the orchestra, and had day trips to the concert hall. My father was a music lover, so I had heard of the most important composers.

I remember talking to a friend who had never heard of Stravinsky. She was quite surprised that a great "classical composer" only died in 1971.

Last edited by johnstaf; 11/28/19 10:00 PM.
Re: Three quarters of young Brits unfamiliar with Mozart [Re: dogperson] #2917478 11/28/19 10:04 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,198
johnstaf Online Crying
3000 Post Club Member
Online Crying
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,198
Sorry, in my previous post I should have said knew and not didn't know.

I promise I'll leave it there. grin

Re: Three quarters of young Brits unfamiliar with Mozart [Re: dogperson] #2917507 11/29/19 02:08 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,037
patH Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,037
Phew. Looks like I stirred up a hornet's nest with my grammar observation. wink
Maybe the English grammar is more subtle than I thought.

Anyway, back to topic. As someone said: Most young people probably know classical music; just not the names.
I can think of at least 2 current TV commercials that use Mozart's "Alla Turca". I don't know how many people know it's by Mozart.
In the movie "Saving Face", from the early 2000s, Alla Turca is used as a cell phone ringtone. And someone on the old IMDb board once asked what it was.

Maybe that could be a challenge for music teachers: When you want to introduce classical music to your students, start with a modern usage in film or TV.


My grand piano is a Yamaha C2 SG.
My other Yamaha is an XMAX 300.
Re: Three quarters of young Brits unfamiliar with Mozart [Re: johnstaf] #2917709 11/29/19 12:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 3,485
NobleHouse Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 3,485
Originally Posted by johnstaf
I've never understood the idea that classical music is classist.



I agree with you!



[Linked Image]
Re: Three quarters of young Brits unfamiliar with Mozart [Re: patH] #2917737 11/29/19 01:53 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 12,873
B
bennevis Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 12,873
Originally Posted by patH
Phew. Looks like I stirred up a hornet's nest with my grammar observation. wink
Maybe the English grammar is more subtle than I thought.

Anyway, back to topic. As someone said: Most young people probably know classical music; just not the names.
I can think of at least 2 current TV commercials that use Mozart's "Alla Turca". I don't know how many people know it's by Mozart.
In the movie "Saving Face", from the early 2000s, Alla Turca is used as a cell phone ringtone. And someone on the old IMDb board once asked what it was.

Maybe that could be a challenge for music teachers: When you want to introduce classical music to your students, start with a modern usage in film or TV.

I don't teach - not officially anyway - but I do introduce classical music to audiences all the time.

And I often use 'hooks' from movies, TV soaps, commercials, ringtones etc to draw them in.

After all, if the Goldberg is good enough for Hannibal Lecter, it's certainly good enough for those of us for whom.....er, liver and chianti isn't quite our cup of tea (or whatever your favorite beverage is).


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: Three quarters of young Brits unfamiliar with Mozart [Re: dogperson] #2917744 11/29/19 02:15 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,198
johnstaf Online Crying
3000 Post Club Member
Online Crying
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,198
Maybe they should bring back the Old Spice ad.

Re: Three quarters of young Brits unfamiliar with Mozart [Re: dogperson] #2917851 11/29/19 06:48 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 26,690
pianoloverus Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 26,690
I don't think "knowing classical music" means one has heard it in some movies or ads.

Re: Three quarters of young Brits unfamiliar with Mozart [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2917863 11/29/19 07:36 PM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 363
R
rmns2bseen Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
R
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 363
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by rmns2bseen
Originally Posted by johnstaf
I've never understood the idea that classical music is classist.
Me either. I'm as common as dirt and love classical music. Come to think of it most of the great composers and performers have been "commoners" too. Some of it seems like reverse snobbery to me.

I don't want to restart our debate in the other thread, but so-called classical music, is really Western in its roots and although, like English, it has been exported to the 4-corners of the world, it is still not a natural fit in most places, as compared to music rooted culturally in those places. For example, my parents just don't get it, yet they do get Chinese classical music, etc.
I don't see how that's relevant. The topic is more or less about generational differences, not ethnic ones.

Re: Three quarters of young Brits unfamiliar with Mozart [Re: dogperson] #2918398 11/30/19 11:46 PM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 563
Sibylle Offline
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 563
Dear native speakers:

"was" is correct. It's indirect or reported speech.

https://www.perfect-english-grammar.com/reported-speech.html
https://owlcation.com/humanities/Indirect-Speech

So, the sentence "94% knew Adele was a singer" is correct because "knew" is in the past tense.


Sibylle


"Not a shred of evidence exists in favour of the idea that life is serious." -Brendan Gill
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Brendan, Kreisler 

What's Hot!!
News from the Piano World
Our January 2020 Newsletter Available Online Now...
Free Piano Newsletter
----------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Shop our Store for Music Lovers!
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Free Trial
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Rate my staccato techniques please
by Nicolas J. - 02/20/20 12:42 PM
Self taught but not only
by BachToTheFuture - 02/20/20 09:06 AM
Questions about becoming a technician
by Mohrpiano - 02/20/20 07:51 AM
Is this a genuine Steinway & Sons?
by Man - 02/20/20 03:28 AM
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics197,081
Posts2,927,963
Members96,050
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2019 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3