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Only had the Piano a few days so don't want to comment too much on the acoustic side of it just yet, other than to say my initial impressions are highly positive. As expected it's taking me a bit of time to get used to an upright action again, but I'm having an absolute blast.

The ATX3 is proving very useful for evening practice too. However, from just a short time using that there's some really annoying elements. Gesture cancelling appears to be poorly supported so it's easy for a scroll up/down gesture to initially cause changes to a slider without realising.

Also, the settings/favourite side of the ui for the ATX3 can only be described as not just counter intuitive but rather limited and imho borderline useless.

I'd expect setting changes to either persist by default, or have a way to save changed settings and have them restored on power cycle. Now you can _almost_ do that, if you make all your changes then save a named favourite, put it in the first favourite slot and set "startup with favourite". Far more hassle than just making changes and tapping save to update current profile, although isn't too painful, but....

I say almost, because, there appears to be no way at all to edit/update that favourite if you want to make a change such as switching to open headphones or turning bluetooth audio back on. Instead you have to save a new named favourite (it doesn't prevent duplicate names either) and then move that favourite to the first slot and delete the previous one.

That might not be too bad, but...

That way of editing does not appear to be possible with any other favourite. Unless I'm missing something, if you select another favourite to active its settings, then go to pianist mode, those settings are lost. So you cannot make tweaks and save as a new favourite and delete the old (as annoying as that work flow is for slot 1 at least it's possible). Instead you've to edit faves, move the fave you want to edit to slot 1, turn the ATX3 off, turn it back on, make tweaks, save as new favourite, delete the old favourite and restore what is really the favourite you want in slot 1 and power cycle again.

Favourites would have been far better off been called "Profiles". Having a single read-only (not deletable) "factory defaults" profile so could not be edited and contained all factory settings. Then having option to "save" any changes to currently loaded profile (would really do a save as if "factory defaults" profile is loaded, but would otherwise just be a overwrite of active profile) or "save as" to create a new named profile.

That way you could at any point load any other set of settings, make minor tweaks and save (update) the profile or save as a new profile. If due to hardware restrictions some settings upon restore cannot take effect without a reboot, then this should be made clear when you load a profile that a power cycle is required to make all settings active and offer to do so. Assuming in this case that by default the last loaded profile is also the profile restored on boot.

tl;dr I don't understand why the favourite system is so limited and convoluted and does not just work like any other system that provides a way to save/load settings with or without profiles. It's quite disappointing as most of what I've seen from the rest of the UI, it works quite well.

Hello Gary,

I don't have immediate access to an instrument that uses this UI, however I don't believe it's necessary for the Favorite memory to be moved to the 1st slot each time.

My recollection is that it's possible to store settings such as Bluetooth, Headphone type etc. as the new "defaults" by storing a Favorite with the desired settings, then selecting that memory on the Favorite screen, and then selecting the "Startup with Favorite" option from the menu. If it's already turned on, turn it off, select the memory, then turned it on again.

Kind regards,
James
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Hi James,

Thanks for the tip. I'll give it a go later. Although it doesn't really change the process all that much in terms of being able to "edit" a non-startup favourite without a reboot as the settings when you change favourite do not appear to stick

Hello Gary,

I'm sorry but I'm not sure I follow you.

Would you be willing to provide a step-by-step of the procedure you're following, and what you expect should happen (vs. what actually happens), please?

Kind regards,
James
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I can have another look later, but the gist of it is, there does not appear to be any way to load a favourite to then edit and save those changes unless it's the startup fave.

I made a favourite "bluetooth off" that is activated on boot that has bluetooth off, speaker vol high, headphone type open, voicing normal as a test.

If I then reboot, and tweak that setting for example, bluetooth audio on, speaker vol low, headphone closed. Then save a second fave "speaker low". If I now select that "speaker low" fave then select "bluetooth off" fave again, the speaker settings are still "low", yet bluetooth fave was saved with "high". Also the bluetooth values do not change.

Faves not persisting "settings" I can kinda understand, but do they not persist "sound settings" either?

What about virtual technition? The manual suggests voicing is included as value that can be saved to a fave. I saved a new fave with voicing set to "mellow1" whilst "bluetooth off" and "speaker low" faves had it set to normal. Changing between the faves does not however change the setting from mellow1 back to normal or vice-versa if you leave the favourites screen. The only way to have it change is to make one of the faves the startup fave and power cycle.

So, to edit an existing fave, you have to make it the startup fave, power cycle, make changes, save as new fave, delete old fave and rename and then restore the fave you really want as your boot up default. As the fave settings only appear to be activate when you select it and remain on the favourites screen. Which makes further tweaks not possible.

It's just quite convoluted when settings saved with a fave do not persist upon leaving the fave screen for anything other than the startup fave. I'm hoping I've missed some way to make this work differently because as is, I can see myself just making use of the startup fave and even that is semi frustrating to use as any changes have to be saved to a new fave and then made the new start up fave, rather than just updating existing.

To put that all another way. p77 of the manual states current settings can be "stored to a memory and immediately recalled with a single tap". Now the recall part is accurate, but "recalled" doesn't last if you leave the favourites screen, so there's no way* to recall a fave and make additional changes and update the fave.

*Other than setting as start up fave, rebooting, editing, saving as new fave, deleting old, renaming new to old name. Then restoring the fave that you really want as your startup fave. Which is quite a convoluted process. As opposed to being able to tap a fave to load it, then go to pianist mode/other modes and make changes to settings and either save as a new favourite or update existing.

Hopefully you see what I'm getting at?

If when you tap a favourite, it activated all those settings so you could leave the favourite screen and see them, you could then make further minor tweaks and save as a new favourite (and ideally have an option to update currently active).

Hello Gary, thank you for your reply.



Yes, I think I so. I'm afraid I don't think the current UI behaviour will change significantly, however I will pass on your feedback to the development team for consideration.

Kind regards,
James
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I think the main issue with it is, it's almost there for covering everything you need to do. It's just the favourites aspect that has some major limitations in the way it works which includes not being able to realistically edit a favourite.

If you're providing feedback, regardless of how likely or not it is to be acted on, here's my suggestion for a starting point that I believe would make for a more obvious/user friendly aspect to this part of the UI. Which aside from rename favourites to "profiles" is really just a variation on how favourites works.

I'd prefer the "profile" approach I touched on earlier. One read-only fixed profile you cannot change, delete or rename. Any time this is selected, settings/sounds/voicing etc all return to "original defaults".

You have an "active profile" which is whatever profile you last selected (by default that's the read-only "original defaults profile). Selecting a profile loads its settings and you can return to pianist mode and continue to play with those settings and more importantly, change a setting if you wish. The change settings page has the option to "save profile" or "save new profile" which as it sounds, save updates the currently active profile, "save as" brings up a dlg to enter a new profile name to save as (ideally you'd have the option to tap the name of an existing profile to overwrite that instead, but that's a minor time saver), whether you use "save" or "save as" that profile becomes the active profile.

Active profile should be restored on boot too (or an option to select which of the profiles to restore including in the list of profiles the "last used profile" option).

This would allow players to incrementally tweak any given favourite as their needs change. Easily switch between their profiles which may be their own preferred settings for various instruments/split play etc or perhaps a partner/childs settings.

All that said, if that's just not going to happen in an update then at the very least I hope Kawai would consider making a loaded favourite "sticky" in the current setup. So that you can load a favourite, return to settings, tweak and save a new favourite and delete the old. That would still be a more annoying workflow than needed, but at least you could do things like load a favourite and check what the settings were and tweak more.

Either way, thanks for your help. At least I know I wasn't missing something in the UI

@Gary001 There was quite a long conversation about the UI in (I think) the Novus 10 Hands On thread. @Jobert worked out how to make it work. You might try searching for answers in that thread or failing that @Jobert's posts

@akc42: oh boy, that's 107 pages. I'll see if I can find the post you're referring to, this could take some time

I think I've found the post you're referring to, this one. Hopes dashed, unfortunately, that looks to be the same procedure I alluded to in my posts above where only the settings for the start-up fave persist after leaving the fave screen.

So to edit another fave, you have to make it the start-up fave, reboot, make changes, save as a new profile, delete old, rename, then restore what you wanted as your default fave on start-up. It works but it's very convoluted to the point it puts you off making tweaks. Where a tweak should be change setting, tap save.

I really wish Kawai had made favourites work in what I'd consider a normal way, where if you load a favourite in, you can then go see what the loaded settings are, tweak if needed and re-save. Alas, it appears that isn't to be

I guess the only silver lining is at least there is _A_ procedure that allows a favourite to be edited, even if it's like having your teeth pulled to do it

Thats why I didn't provide a link ;-)

After further usage there's a few additional issues found.

Firstly, Bluetooth pairing has no security (mentioned this in another thread). Granted this is not a bug, but probably by design. However it could really do with only been discoverable whilst you're on a pairing screen and also asking you to confirm a pairing (then remembering it). Ideally there'd be an option to require pin entry to pair which you could enable for devices that support it. As is, people can connect in maliciously or accidentally and play whatever they feel like through your headset/speakers.

Will they? Well I've already seen the accidental playback occur.

This next one, might be a bug? When playing back demo songs the volume appears way too loud compared to regular playing volume levels. I checked the velocity via midi out to ensure it wasn't me playing too lightly. The demo songs appear to far exceed the maximum volume you can reach via a max midi note.

I've been avoiding the demo songs for this reason as I like to set the volume knob and then try not to change it so I can get used to playing at given finger weights for various dynamic levels. Rather than never quite setting the volume dial back to where it was.

Roughly two weeks spent playing the K300 now and I'm still totally loving having an acoustic and gradually getting used to the action and dynamics. It's hard to describe but it just feels so much nicer to play.

One further issue encountered tonight, trying out the record to USB function. The touch interface locked up whilst saving the recording to USB. Nothing was actually saved to the USB stick. Trying again after a reboot with a new short test recording saved to the stick fine. This was on a stick formatted by the ATX3.

This is worrying. If the USB save functionality is not reliable I could lose a complete play through of a piece. Saving to the internal memory so far has been reliable, but this is also quite useless as far as for getting the file back out. There does not appear to be a way to render/transfer internal memory recordings to the usb stick in wav or mp3 format. Only sound mode transfers are supported and that's with kawai song format only.

I'll persist with the usb recording to get a better idea of how reliable it is, maybe this was a one off issue. If it happens again though, I'll have to resort to recording via line-out which is a real shame considering it's less convenient and also a quality hit vs a pure digital file.

Gary, I had kind of the same issue. Anyway, I was using a USB3 32GB drive. It was recommended to use a USB2 and less than 16GB.

I had a similar problem on a CA78 though in this case it was a question of it not enabling the software update. Tried various sticks and it didn't even allow me to reformat. As suggested before, a software rewrite is needed. Updating badly structured software only leads to more bugs.

Tom: I'll bear that in mind, although the stick I tried was a 8GB USB2. That said, I've several other brands to try if this happens again.

I tried a few more times last night and had no further issue with it saving so I'm hoping it was a one off issue directly after formatting the stick. Although that's a rather limited amount of extra testing. Time will tell.

Yes, as mentioned elsewhere; be sure to format the USB drive from the piano.

Hello Colin, thanks for the heads up in your PM.



Yes, that's a good point about ensuring the latest software update is used, however this should not necessarily prevent the USB memory device from being formatted in the instrument.

Kind regards,
James
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Gary001, my apologies if I've asked you this already, however can you confirm that your ATX3 is using the latest available software, please? (currently system: v1.0.2j, UI: v1.0.2)

Please refer to the following thread for more information:

http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2886025/

To check the version of the system software and UI software, please download the ATX3/AURES software update instructions PDF from the Kawai Global website, via the link in the thread above.

I hope this helps.

Kind regards,
James
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