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Artist Works #2913775 11/19/19 11:24 AM
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I’m thinking of enrolling in Artist Works, George Whitty Jazz. I like the video exchange method rather than live coaching over Zoom. And I need a focused learning path. Anyone have experience with Artist Works?


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Re: Artist Works [Re: TomLC] #2913792 11/19/19 12:19 PM
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Actually after watching Hugh Sung’s introduction, I might join his program instead.


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Re: Artist Works [Re: TomLC] #2913795 11/19/19 12:24 PM
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George Whitty is straight jazz (bebop oriented) while Hugh Sung is relaxed classical / pop (reading music).

It just depends on where you wish to go.

Whitty is fairly difficult while Sung is relatively easy.

If you want to play real jazz go with Whitty.


Don

Kawai MP11SE, Focal Professional CMS 40 near-field monitors, Yamaha HS8S Powered Subwoofer, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones, Pianoteq and numerous other VSTs (Seldom Used)
Re: Artist Works [Re: dmd] #2913800 11/19/19 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by dmd
George Whitty is straight jazz (bebop oriented) while Hugh Sung is relaxed classical / pop (reading music).

It just depends on where you wish to go.

Whitty is fairly difficult while Sung is relatively easy.

If you want to play real jazz go with Whitty.


Do you happen to know how quickly Hugh and Whitty respond on submitted videos?


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Artist Works [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2913801 11/19/19 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by dmd
George Whitty is straight jazz (bebop oriented) while Hugh Sung is relaxed classical / pop (reading music).

It just depends on where you wish to go.

Whitty is fairly difficult while Sung is relatively easy.

If you want to play real jazz go with Whitty.


Do you happen to know how quickly Hugh and Whitty respond on submitted videos?


I am not sure, anymore.

If was a while back when I did that.

Usually those artists have a "window" of time each month (or sooner) when they respond to submitted videos so you have to submit them just prior to that "window".


Don

Kawai MP11SE, Focal Professional CMS 40 near-field monitors, Yamaha HS8S Powered Subwoofer, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones, Pianoteq and numerous other VSTs (Seldom Used)
Re: Artist Works [Re: dmd] #2913805 11/19/19 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by dmd
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by dmd
George Whitty is straight jazz (bebop oriented) while Hugh Sung is relaxed classical / pop (reading music).

It just depends on where you wish to go.

Whitty is fairly difficult while Sung is relatively easy.

If you want to play real jazz go with Whitty.
Do you happen to know how quickly Hugh and Whitty respond on submitted videos?
I am not sure, anymore.

If was a while back when I did that.

Usually those artists have a "window" of time each month (or sooner) when they respond to submitted videos so you have to submit them just prior to that "window".

That makes it sound like they are only responding to one video a month. Is that because Christie Peery's Artist Works channel, she can respond to about 4 a month. She might have a window each week though.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Artist Works [Re: TomLC] #2913812 11/19/19 12:50 PM
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Watching them both on YouTube, Hugh’s classes look very beginner. However, he says he teachs all levels. I might try three months with him since I can submit a video and see what he says.


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Re: Artist Works [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2913813 11/19/19 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by dmd
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by dmd
George Whitty is straight jazz (bebop oriented) while Hugh Sung is relaxed classical / pop (reading music).

It just depends on where you wish to go.

Whitty is fairly difficult while Sung is relatively easy.

If you want to play real jazz go with Whitty.
Do you happen to know how quickly Hugh and Whitty respond on submitted videos?
I am not sure, anymore.

If was a while back when I did that.

Usually those artists have a "window" of time each month (or sooner) when they respond to submitted videos so you have to submit them just prior to that "window".

That makes it sound like they are only responding to one video a month. Is that because Christie Peery's Artist Works channel, she can respond to about 4 a month. She might have a window each week though.


It may be a bit better than 1 a month. I don't remember.

However, I also do not remember it being any particular problem.


Don

Kawai MP11SE, Focal Professional CMS 40 near-field monitors, Yamaha HS8S Powered Subwoofer, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones, Pianoteq and numerous other VSTs (Seldom Used)
Re: Artist Works [Re: TomLC] #2913815 11/19/19 12:57 PM
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It depends on your membership. 3 months = 5. 6 months = 12. Annual = unlimited. And it is only $279.


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Re: Artist Works [Re: TomLC] #2913816 11/19/19 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by TomLC
It depends on your membership. 3 months = 5. 6 months = 12. Annual = unlimited. And it is only $279.

Well, that is why I was asking. Because you can only submit one video at a time on Artist Works. And Christie Peery, for example, takes about a week to respond. So that means effectively, unlimited = ~4 video/month for her course. So I was wondering how often the other two piano instructors respond every month. Because if they only review videos once a month, then unlimited would still be about once per month.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Artist Works [Re: TomLC] #2913829 11/19/19 01:27 PM
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The response is slow and 90% of the time will be just a bit of text from what I remember. I think it’s very rare they will make a video reply to you. The real value of artist works is seeing all the other students submissions and seeing all the feedback given to them. It’s like sitting in on 50 lessons with other students your level. That is very valuable and is something you don’t even get with real 1 on 1 lessons.

The jazz stuff was just not impressive to me as a complete, well rounded method. The instructor is amazing and the lessons are really high quality but they are sparse and focus mainly on bebop soloing. To actually say it’s a complete method that can take you from beginner to advanced they should really have triple the amount of lessons they do. The Classical Peery course is a lot better in this regard, but has a very rigid and set structure you have to work through. You even have to go and buy the books she uses (which is actually quite expensive and slow and annoying in Australia as it’s not published here). I did not try the pop course at all.

This was from my brief experience with it 3 years ago so I’d be interested to see if it has changed much in that time.

Last edited by AndrewJCW; 11/19/19 01:28 PM.
Re: Artist Works [Re: TomLC] #2913833 11/19/19 01:29 PM
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I tried Peery a couple of years ago. I had a 50% off deal coupon around Christmas and signed up. But a month later I got a new local teacher and decided to scratch ArtistWorks.

There is another forum member here who was doing Hugh's course, "Michael." I think this is how he ended up getting a Cunningham Piano.

Last edited by bSharp(C)yclist; 11/19/19 01:29 PM.

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Re: Artist Works [Re: AndrewJCW] #2913836 11/19/19 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by AndrewJCW
The Classical Peery course is a lot better in this regard, but has a very rigid and set structure you have to work through. You even have to go and buy the books she uses (which is actually quite expensive and slow and annoying in Australia as it’s not published here). I did not try the pop course at all.

For those that prefer the video exchange method, there is one more classical online course worth considering now, and that is PCA. PCA has a feedback piano teacher from the USA who reviews your submitted videos, separate from the main piano teacher who recorded all the PCA lessons. PCA is set up so that you can get feedback once per week to videos submitted. No books are required for PCA and the course is comprehensive to an upper-intermediate level.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Artist Works [Re: AndrewJCW] #2913864 11/19/19 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by AndrewJCW
The response is slow and 90% of the time will be just a bit of text from what I remember. I think it’s very rare they will make a video reply to you. The real value of artist works is seeing all the other students submissions and seeing all the feedback given to them. It’s like sitting in on 50 lessons with other students your level. That is very valuable and is something you don’t even get with real 1 on 1 lessons.

The jazz stuff was just not impressive to me as a complete, well rounded method. The instructor is amazing and the lessons are really high quality but they are sparse and focus mainly on bebop soloing. To actually say it’s a complete method that can take you from beginner to advanced they should really have triple the amount of lessons they do. The Classical Peery course is a lot better in this regard, but has a very rigid and set structure you have to work through. You even have to go and buy the books she uses (which is actually quite expensive and slow and annoying in Australia as it’s not published here). I did not try the pop course at all.

This was from my brief experience with it 3 years ago so I’d be interested to see if it has changed much in that time.


I was a member with Whitty a few years ago and the responses were always with a video and quite thorough.

Hugh Sung also with videos and thorough.

Responses can be a bit slow at times.

Whitty is definitely bebop solo oriented and is not a "general/all encompassing" jazz piano course.


Don

Kawai MP11SE, Focal Professional CMS 40 near-field monitors, Yamaha HS8S Powered Subwoofer, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones, Pianoteq and numerous other VSTs (Seldom Used)
Re: Artist Works [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2913876 11/19/19 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by AndrewJCW
The Classical Peery course is a lot better in this regard, but has a very rigid and set structure you have to work through. You even have to go and buy the books she uses (which is actually quite expensive and slow and annoying in Australia as it’s not published here). I did not try the pop course at all.

For those that prefer the video exchange method, there is one more classical online course worth considering now, and that is PCA. PCA has a feedback piano teacher from the USA who reviews your submitted videos, separate from the main piano teacher who recorded all the PCA lessons. PCA is set up so that you can get feedback once per week to videos submitted. No books are required for PCA and the course is comprehensive to an upper-intermediate level.


Have you participated in this course ?


Don

Kawai MP11SE, Focal Professional CMS 40 near-field monitors, Yamaha HS8S Powered Subwoofer, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones, Pianoteq and numerous other VSTs (Seldom Used)
Re: Artist Works [Re: dmd] #2913881 11/19/19 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by dmd
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by AndrewJCW
The Classical Peery course is a lot better in this regard, but has a very rigid and set structure you have to work through. You even have to go and buy the books she uses (which is actually quite expensive and slow and annoying in Australia as it’s not published here). I did not try the pop course at all.

For those that prefer the video exchange method, there is one more classical online course worth considering now, and that is PCA. PCA has a feedback piano teacher from the USA who reviews your submitted videos, separate from the main piano teacher who recorded all the PCA lessons. PCA is set up so that you can get feedback once per week to videos submitted. No books are required for PCA and the course is comprehensive to an upper-intermediate level.


Have you participated in this course ?

Animisha has participated in this course for the last 10 months. She's made some comments about it on this forum. Do you have some questions about it?


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Artist Works [Re: dmd] #2913884 11/19/19 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by dmd


I was a member with Whitty a few years ago and the responses were always with a video and quite thorough.

Hugh Sung also with videos and thorough.

Responses can be a bit slow at times.

Whitty is definitely bebop solo oriented and is not a "general/all encompassing" jazz piano course.


Don, that was the impression I took away from his introductory video. I’m glad you opined.


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Re: Artist Works [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2913909 11/19/19 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by dmd
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by AndrewJCW
The Classical Peery course is a lot better in this regard, but has a very rigid and set structure you have to work through. You even have to go and buy the books she uses (which is actually quite expensive and slow and annoying in Australia as it’s not published here). I did not try the pop course at all.

For those that prefer the video exchange method, there is one more classical online course worth considering now, and that is PCA. PCA has a feedback piano teacher from the USA who reviews your submitted videos, separate from the main piano teacher who recorded all the PCA lessons. PCA is set up so that you can get feedback once per week to videos submitted. No books are required for PCA and the course is comprehensive to an upper-intermediate level.


Have you participated in this course ?

Animisha has participated in this course for the last 10 months. She's made some comments about it on this forum. Do you have some questions about it?


No questions.

I just wanted to find out if you were speaking from personal experience or not.

I looked at some of the advertising videos.

It would not be my choice.

I could not handle all the incessant talking on her part.

She talks and talks and talks and talks ….. just steady …. and her voice (at least to me) is annoying.

Just me mind you.

Maybe others can deal with it.


Don

Kawai MP11SE, Focal Professional CMS 40 near-field monitors, Yamaha HS8S Powered Subwoofer, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones, Pianoteq and numerous other VSTs (Seldom Used)
Re: Artist Works [Re: dmd] #2913916 11/19/19 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by dmd
She talks and talks and talks and talks ….. just steady …. and her voice (at least to me) is annoying.

Just me mind you.

Maybe others can deal with it.]

You are not the first to mention this, and you won't be the last! 😉

Ilinca reminds me of a teacher I had in school. This teacher would stand in front of the chalkboard (in the days before whiteboards) and lecture. And she'd pick up a piece of chalk and make as if she was going to write something, get lost in some verbal elaboration and put the chalk back down. Some of my classmates had a little pool going on about whether she would actually write anything on the board or not. Sometimes she'd write our assignment for next class. Often she wouldn't even write that. I remember coming into the classroom and seeing on the board some information about the exam, and wondering, "Who wrote that???" 🤣

Originally Posted by dmd
I just wanted to find out if you were speaking from personal experience or not.

All this said, I've been a PCA subscriber for a long time although I don't use her material myself since I have a piano teacher for lessons, and I do think Ilinca's instruction is top rate for classical piano, and far more technique focused than other online teachers. The reason can talk about a single piece for 30 minutes is because she jumps right into detailed discussion of technique to be used in playing the piece and demonstrates this. Some other instructors offer very light discussion of technique and they might only spend 5 mins on the same piece - mostly a demonstration of how it is to be played. This is a big difference.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Artist Works [Re: TomLC] #2913925 11/19/19 05:12 PM
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Yeah I don't find anything enticing about the piano career academy website or presentation. At very best it looks like it was done on the cheap 10 years ago. Maybe it's a great course who knows, I will not be entering CC info anywhere near that site.

I also tried popjazzonline last weekend for a little bit, they have a 14 day trial. I lasted about 2 hours. The content seems okish, if a bit cheesy and cringey, but the interface and structure is painful. They've time restricted the lessons so you only get the first basic one in your trial. They do have a super premium membership that provides personal feedback but it's a no from me.

You wouldn't think it would be hard to make a decent piano lesson website with a sensible intuitive design and interface but apparently it is.

Artistworks is a cool idea but the jazz stuff is so limited - at best it would be a small side thing to work on with your main method. The pop/classical teachers don't interest me at all. If they did, I'd definitely give them a go, they have a good system I think. The community feel you get from seeing all the other student's submissions and feedback is fantastic.

The best I've tried so far is open studio jazz. Still has problems with basically being a collection of random different methods (with their own focus/level) and no big guide/structure to work though, but the presentation and teaching is top notch (although still an annoying website to navigate!). Of course it is only focused on jazz and doesn't have much in the way of feedback.

Personally I'm not overly concerned about the feedback portion. Obviously it would be nice, but I find recording myself I can pick up on things I need to work on, I just want the structure/direction. I think if you're really keen on getting personal feedback, I don't know why you'd be wasting time with these large group library websites, just go get a skype teacher.

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