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Re: Classical Pianist Lola Astanova in Rolling Stones magazine [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2911454 11/13/19 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
When a classical pianist feels they have to dress a certain way to either get attention or more fans, I assume that's because they're lacking in ability. Some would point me to Yuja Wang as an exception but I feel, even in her case, her attire often detracts from her performance. I think it's possible to dress in a sexy fashion without going to the extremes of Astanova or Wang.
I agree, Yuja Wang certainly isn't lacking in ability. I think she's just being an individual. I don't really know enough about Lola Astanova though.

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Re: Classical Pianist Lola Astanova in Rolling Stones magazine [Re: rmns2bseen] #2911455 11/13/19 07:41 AM
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Tyrone Slothrop Offline OP
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Originally Posted by rmns2bseen
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
When a classical pianist feels they have to dress a certain way to either get attention or more fans, I assume that's because they're lacking in ability.
Yuja Wang certainly isn't lacking in ability. I think she's just being an individual.

+1! We've been having a knockdown drag out over in this thread over here about whether performers/presenters/teachers have the right to be an individual.


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Classical Pianist Lola Astanova in Rolling Stones magazine [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2911467 11/13/19 08:26 AM
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"If a beautiful male pianist wears tight pants, I'm not going to think, 'What's in those pants'?" says concert pianist Yuja Wang. "OK, maybe. But if the music is beautiful and sensual, why not dress to fit?" Photographer: Ian Douglas

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across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Classical Pianist Lola Astanova in Rolling Stones magazine [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2911473 11/13/19 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by rmns2bseen
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
When a classical pianist feels they have to dress a certain way to either get attention or more fans, I assume that's because they're lacking in ability.
Yuja Wang certainly isn't lacking in ability. I think she's just being an individual.

+1! We've been having a knockdown drag out over in this thread over here about whether performers/presenters/teachers have the right to be an individual.
You call it "being an individual" or "slut shaming"(sorry, I find that one ridiculous) but many others would put it under the category of "what's appropriate concert/teaching attire?" And I don't think those two are mutually exclusive.

Re: Classical Pianist Lola Astanova in Rolling Stones magazine [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2911474 11/13/19 08:36 AM
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I've always felt that Yuja Wang dressed like that to hide her lack of ability. She's never really impressed me.

Lola Astanova, however, now she has chops.

I really enjoyed her rendition of Rhapsody in Blue. It's a pity they put her on that worn-out, unresponsive piano (or maybe it was just poorly mic'ed- hard to tell with pianos).


Austin Rogers, PhD
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Re: Classical Pianist Lola Astanova in Rolling Stones magazine [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2911476 11/13/19 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
With Yuja, I think she does it because she likes it and the effect it has, and because she is bored.
She dressed that way from early in her career so it's not because she's bored. I'm sure she likes it...otherwise she wouldn't do it. But the question is if it's appropriate? I think she can get away with it because she plays so well. A lesser pianist would probably be chastised a lot more for dressing so provocatively, similar to some of the criticism about Astanova.

Re: Classical Pianist Lola Astanova in Rolling Stones magazine [Re: pianoloverus] #2911477 11/13/19 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by rmns2bseen
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
When a classical pianist feels they have to dress a certain way to either get attention or more fans, I assume that's because they're lacking in ability.
Yuja Wang certainly isn't lacking in ability. I think she's just being an individual.

+1! We've been having a knockdown drag out over in this thread over here about whether performers/presenters/teachers have the right to be an individual.
You call it "being an individual" or "slut shaming"(sorry, I find that one ridiculous) but many others would put it under the category of "what's appropriate concert/teaching attire?" And I don't think those two are mutually exclusive.

Wikipedia: "Examples of slut-shaming include being criticized or punished for violating dress code policies by dressing in perceived sexually provocative ways,..."

Thank goodness that what is considered "appropriate" or good decorum changes over time. Some people just have trouble adjusting to change.


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Classical Pianist Lola Astanova in Rolling Stones magazine [Re: Dr. Rogers] #2911478 11/13/19 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Dr. Rogers
I've always felt that Yuja Wang dressed like that to hide her lack of ability. She's never really impressed me.

Lola Astanova, however, now she has chops.
?? Yuja Wang's reputation rests in part on her phenomenal technique.

Re: Classical Pianist Lola Astanova in Rolling Stones magazine [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2911485 11/13/19 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Wikipedia: "Examples of slut-shaming include being criticized or punished for violating dress code policies by dressing in perceived sexually provocative ways,..."

Thank goodness that what is considered "appropriate" or good decorum changes over time. Some people just have trouble adjusting to change.
But for now only the tiniest percent of classical performers dress like Wang and Astanova so what's generally considered appropriate hasn't changed.

Your "thank goodness" and "some people have trouble" are just unnecessary digs.

Re: Classical Pianist Lola Astanova in Rolling Stones magazine [Re: pianoloverus] #2911488 11/13/19 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Your "thank goodness" and "some people have trouble" are just unnecessary digs.

It's reality or else we'd be dressed like this:

[Linked Image]

When my generation dies off, the standards will be set by a generation which has a different set of hang ups than we do. Since in the other thread, we talked about tattoos, here is a statistic about the succeeding generation: "36% of Americans between the age of 18 and 29 have at least one tattoo."



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across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Classical Pianist Lola Astanova in Rolling Stones magazine [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2911489 11/13/19 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
But the question is if it's appropriate?
Personally I'm finding the old black tux or gown less and less appropriate. Nobody's really dressed like that in nearly a century. It makes an unnecessary distance between performers and audiences. Which is to say, who decides what's "appropriate"?

Re: Classical Pianist Lola Astanova in Rolling Stones magazine [Re: rmns2bseen] #2911490 11/13/19 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by rmns2bseen
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
But the question is if it's appropriate?
Personally I'm finding the old black tux or gown less and less appropriate. Nobody's really dressed like that in nearly a century. It makes an unnecessary distance between performers and audiences. Which is to say, who decides what's "appropriate"?

+1!


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Classical Pianist Lola Astanova in Rolling Stones magazine [Re: rmns2bseen] #2911520 11/13/19 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by rmns2bseen
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
But the question is if it's appropriate?
Personally I'm finding the old black tux or gown less and less appropriate. Nobody's really dressed like that in nearly a century. It makes an unnecessary distance between performers and audiences. Which is to say, who decides what's "appropriate"?

1. Lots of people today dress in tuxes or gowns for very formal or dressy affairs. In terms of pianists' attire, I can't give a precise time frame when pianists began dressing more informally it was far more recently than the hundred years ago you mention.
2. A significant percent of today's pianists don't even wear a jacket and tie except perhaps when playing with an orchestra or at the most prestigious venues. The dress of many of today's females pianists is far less conservative than even twenty years ago. IOW the dress today is generally far different from what you say, but performers like Wang and Astanova are at the extreme end of the spectrum.

Re: Classical Pianist Lola Astanova in Rolling Stones magazine [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2911523 11/13/19 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Your "thank goodness" and "some people have trouble" are just unnecessary digs.

It's reality or else we'd be dressed like this:

[Linked Image]

When my generation dies off, the standards will be set by a generation which has a different set of hang ups than we do. Since in the other thread, we talked about tattoos, here is a statistic about the succeeding generation: "36% of Americans between the age of 18 and 29 have at least one tattoo."

The fact that dress a long time ago was in "reality" far different from today's dress has nothing to do with the fact that your comment that I mentioned were unnecessary digs. Just the way you seem to characterize my opinion as a "hang up" in your last post.

I made no mention of tattoos so why mention it? I think most who felt the teacher's video was somewhat inappropriate were concerned about the length of her dress(emphasized by the camera angle) and not her tattoo.

Re: Classical Pianist Lola Astanova in Rolling Stones magazine [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2911531 11/13/19 11:00 AM
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As long as there are weddings and proms using tuxes, gowns, or tails, that form of dress will still be around.

Egalitarianism used to be important: orchestral musicians wore what that the audience, conductors, section leaders, and soloists did. I think a male soloist wearing a grey Armani suit without a tie, for example, is being a little too "set apart" from orchestra players in tails or long black gowns. But, I don't really fundamentally care what people wear, so long as a performance is good.

I respect Ms. Wang a great deal, musically and for the consistency of how she dresses. It's just "her." (Here comes the "but") BUT, I did see a vid of her where some males in an orchestra were looking at her like wolves for wearing a very revealing dress. I felt sorry for her and for the state of male behavior (this was slightly before the "me too" movement).


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Re: Classical Pianist Lola Astanova in Rolling Stones magazine [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2911682 11/13/19 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Lots of people today dress in tuxes or gowns for very formal or dressy affairs.
Who says classical music has to be such an affair? That's right, custom and tradition. That dry ritualistic way is one of the reasons classical music struggles to reach a wider audience. In Brahms' time I don't think musicians performed in hose and periwigs. Some of them, like Liszt and Paganini, were were downright scandalous.

Re: Classical Pianist Lola Astanova in Rolling Stones magazine [Re: pianoloverus] #2911686 11/13/19 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Your "thank goodness" and "some people have trouble" are just unnecessary digs.

It's reality or else we'd be dressed like this:

[Linked Image]

When my generation dies off, the standards will be set by a generation which has a different set of hang ups than we do. Since in the other thread, we talked about tattoos, here is a statistic about the succeeding generation: "36% of Americans between the age of 18 and 29 have at least one tattoo."

The fact that dress a long time ago was in "reality" far different from today's dress has nothing to do with the fact that your comment that I mentioned were unnecessary digs. Just the way you seem to characterize my opinion as a "hang up" in your last post.

I made no mention of tattoos so why mention it? I think most who felt the teacher's video was somewhat inappropriate were concerned about the length of her dress(emphasized by the camera angle) and not her tattoo.

BB Player, as moderator, asked me to stop posting to that other thread, so I think it would circumvent his request if I exported that discussion here. You get the last word regarding other thread.

I'll just talk about Lola and Yuja instead over here.


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"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Classical Pianist Lola Astanova in Rolling Stones magazine [Re: rmns2bseen] #2911694 11/13/19 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by rmns2bseen
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Lots of people today dress in tuxes or gowns for very formal or dressy affairs.
Who says classical music has to be such an affair? That's right, custom and tradition. That dry ritualistic way is one of the reasons classical music struggles to reach a wider audience. In Brahms' time I don't think musicians performed in hose and periwigs. Some of them, like Liszt and Paganini, were were downright scandalous.
My response was to a poster who said people don't dress is tuxes today. As I also mentioned in one of my posts, it's fairly common for male classical pianists to perform without a jacket and tie these days, so I think classical pianists are adopting the approach you prefer.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 11/13/19 05:47 PM.
Re: Classical Pianist Lola Astanova in Rolling Stones magazine [Re: Dr. Rogers] #2911736 11/13/19 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr. Rogers
I've always felt that Yuja Wang dressed like that to hide her lack of ability. She's never really impressed me.

Lola Astanova, however, now she has chops.


I assume this is sarcasm.

Astanova's "chops" aren't even remotely comparable to Yuja Wang's.

I don't know if there has ever been a pianist with a better command of her instrument than Yuja Wang.

Last edited by johnstaf; 11/13/19 09:05 PM.
Re: Classical Pianist Lola Astanova in Rolling Stones magazine [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2911790 11/14/19 04:02 AM
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Yuja Wang is certainly not lacking abilities; but there are tons of excellent pianists that have outstanding technique. To make it to the very top of the star system list, one need more than just excellent technique. We should not be naîve, for some pianists, the clothes and/or stage behavior are carefully thought through. Yuja Wang may like the type of dress she is wearing but that is a secondary reason. BTW outside the stage, she does not wear at all this type of clothes; she is usually in quite casual shorts, jeans and flat sport shoes, so very likely she is a different person than what she wants to appear on stage. She is not even at ease walking with her usual high heels shoes and I do not think most of her outfits are really comfortable. So all of this seems like actions to project a specific personality which participate to building a brand image, but that does not exclude pianistic talent or personal preferences. Our modern world just love iconic people, whether real or usually fabricated.

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