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Maybe in defense of learning to play classical music, if you can play Listz and Rachmaninoff, you can play anything 😁.

Hmmm
Don’t agree with that. I really want to learn to play jazz, but That will be a whole new ballgame that I will need to postpone until I can quit work

Happened to me too. In my case it turned out I had hyperthyroidism.

I'll just say there is a possibility that you can learn from someone who does not engender warm and fuzzy feelings--- why, most of my teachers in the public schools were pretty creepy (NOT all, thankfully). Feel they're getting their sadistic jollies at your expense? That's a game two can play. A little yelling, a little screaming,a little crying, a little drama with payments that are slow to arrive, or a million other tricks that are, really, beneath you to hear and beneath me to tell.

Then again. It just may not be 'you.' A teacher is not there to be your friend, in the social sense. You can use that. I got some of my best work in therapy done with a shrink I didn't care for much at all. A good practitioner can use that to help set you free. They don't call it psychodrama for nothing.

Still, I was glad enough to shuck both of these beauties off and find instruction and healing in situations which were more congenial. (It would have been very hard to find scenes which were less so!)

I'll tell you, it does anger me to hear of situations where innocent students are mistreated. Still, I think it is a poor policy to encourage these students to have more anger, more fear, more resentment, just from the viewpoint of their own emotional health. We think of the music; we recognize that our love, our effort, our ability to connect with the great souls who have communicated to such a huge extent their love, their feeling, their good wishes to us, in our own time, as if the centuries did not exist, as a barrier, in the least. There is so much of genius to fill the mind. So much of beauty. We let the hurt feelings go, let the bad lessons go, forget the very sight of the poor teacher's face. The mind, the heart, have only so much room. "Letting go" is the beginning of the essential technique of a great many wonderful things.

Your inner feeling has guided you to move from lower to higher. Next time, why not consider letting it have a greater share of your attention, much earlier on? The technique is entirely intelligible when viewed in this way; not even slightly mysterious, and hardly scary at all.

I'll just add. Who could have thought, but looking back, far away as it was, I find I can have a little hope, or a wish, that my teachers have found healing. Amazing.

At a piano lesson the student is the important one ,not the teacher.
Find someone else please !

What !

I have to say this after reading through all your posts more than once - I really don't know why you need a teacher at all.

What is it you're hoping to gain from one at your present stage, where you're already performing exactly what you like, and when and where you want, and to much acclaim too? To develop your technical skills? (That is likely to mean working with a classically-trained teacher and doing the stuff that classical pianists do to improve their technique.....which I'm sure you don't want.) To develop musical skills for what you actually enjoy performing? Well, it's obvious you already have all the skills for what you do, so what are you hoping to get from a teacher whose interest is pop, or jazz or blues? You don't really want to change what you're already doing.

I'm looking at it from a classical pianist's perspective. Student pianists - once they are performing and getting the concerts they want - stop lessons, but keep learning new stuff on their own. If they are still in the 'apprentice' stage, or feel they still have much to learn, they might still be attending a conservatory, or having private teaching, or doing masterclasses. Most of them put up with very demanding (even abusive) teachers if they think they can learn what they need from them (to see what I mean, look at a few masterclasses on YT). Some of the most famous teachers were martinets, and hated by their students.....

You don't need any of that - so, why do you need a teacher?


BTW, I play a monthly recital in public (and lots of other places, whoever there is a piano) purely for my personal satisfaction and joy, and to (attempt to) convert people to the delights of classical music. I haven't had a teacher since I finished with lessons in my late teens, even though I'm very far from being close to the skill level of a typical classical concert pianist, but I can learn new stuff on my own and eventually perform them to my satisfaction (and hopefully, that of my audiences). So, I'm OK with what I can do, and am doing, and don't need any more lessons - even though I'm pretty sure I will benefit from them.

If you really still want a teacher, I suggest that you play to your prospective teacher the stuff you're already doing (can be a recording), and tell him/her exactly what you want from a teacher. Don't just say something like 'I want to improve my skills/technique' - be very specific about what you want.

I will answer the question of why I started lessons.

3 years ago I was diagnosed with a serious medical (possibly life ending) issue. I had surgery. Not "cured" but not at deaths door. Then...i had a tumor (cancer, my 3rd in my life) and major surgery again. So far so good.

I realized time might be running out for me. My whole adult life I made attempts to "get back on stage" and performing like I did in my teens and twenties.

Life took over. I made sporadic attempts over the years auditioning for bands, had an audition that went unbelievably well! The group leader said "best singer we have heard so far". We melded. I was elated.

Then I was told I was "too old and I didn't fit in with twenty somethings". In my defense I am a very youthful fit 59 year old. Folks think my grandkids are MY kids lol.

So I take my wounded heart and decide to re-visit the piano and try to accompany myself so I could get back into performing.

I upgrade my instrument. I find a new tech (previous one did NOT tune my piano correctly, it was old and he didn't care) and the new tech says "my wife is a teacher".

So I jump at the opportunity to call her to discuss my needs and feel the "universe" was giving me a knudge and I pursue that line of thinking.

I have NEVER accompanied myself of the piano. I play guitar, but not well (3 expert guitar players in my family) but I am a good vocalist. So I had already spent a year or so practicing. From the beginning basically. I read music ok, but I realized I have issues with tempo and want to improve that. Reason #1. Reason #2 I believed I would benefit OVERALL from music instruction. And it might just aid me in gaining confidence. And anchor me to routine and repetition.

I devise a "lesson plan and approach" and "goals" to that end. I explain those needs, ask this teacher "can you help me?" She says yes. And I throw myself completely into the endeavor.

Ok. This teacher should have referred me OR said something like "your desires may be better served with another instructor." Or similar.

Listen, I suck at playing piano. I have maybe a small slice of talent. But I attempt to make that up with hard work and determination. And I figure I am learning something along the way.

My goal is to create a path for myself back into performing music. And after getting rejected I looked inward and decided I needed to facilitate that.

I guess I am (for this teacher) a pita. I attempted to steer my instruction to my needs. I was kept in as a student (more than likely) for the fee. That is apparent now.

I believe this teacher thinks I have zero talent and because I don't "fit" the bill for her as her student, or the "type" of student she generally accepts.

There have been many musicians that have been told "you suck" by others that went on to varying degrees of success in spite of that.

I stopped sharing with my teacher months ago the pieces I was playing and singing to...as..she just does not care. But I keep going to lessons, thinking again that I will derive something out of it.

I am a singer. Not a piano player first. But that shouldn't close me out. Why a teacher would keep me as a student whilst I annoy her or the instruction she provides isn't a fit...$.

I have a friend who years ago asked me to sit in at a concert (small, local, not a major band or what have you) and it was intoxicating! I realized how much I missed performing. And my voice box is as good as it ever was.

My teacher HATES the music I want to perform. And she is very opinionated, rigid, prudish, and the last 3 month's or so changed in her demeanor.

Teacher's like that do a disservice to people like me. Her opinion was important to me. But MY opinion trumps that. I will work as hard and as long as I need to.

A friend who owns a dive bar let's me come and play my silly low brow songs. Any exposure I can get in front of others is beneficial. It is a sympathetic room. With people who are happy to have me there, even though I'm not very good at playing piano AND singing. But I have to start somewhere.

I refuse to have my dream get [censored] on. I apologize if use of profanity is not allowed here

Rodeo Rider,

Congratulations on "cutting the cord"!!!!

You are in the same boat as a lot of us in regards to stagefright. Heck, I STILL get nervous playing for my teacher--he and I really do get along great, I just always want to play perfect (which never happens!).

Finding the right teacher for you is so crucial to your enjoyment. My teacher is NOT the typical teacher. No scales. No recitals. Heck, I haven't worked in the Alfred's book for almost a year. We just work on songs that he thinks I will like (usually jazz standards or similar), or he will bring in songs that I request. He will occasionally throw in some classical, too--but only if I want. His goal is to build upon the skills that he already sees. I find this keeps me motivated, and I LOVE going to my lesson (I tell him it's my bi-weekly therapy).

Best of luck in your search!

Rodeo Rider, you've shared a lot of information here, some quite personal. And, it looks like your thread has gotten a lot of attention and responses.

I honestly can't add much of anything that hasn't already been said, other than to try and offer some consolation and encouragement. It sounds like you and I have a lot in common. I too am in my early 60s, and started learning to play the piano about 14 years ago, or so, after years of playing stringed instruments. I too play mostly non-classical, and I like to sing with my playing, not an easy task. Playing alone is difficult, but playing and singing is double difficult.

Most non-classical pianists/performers/artists do play and sing, even the most famous and popular... Elton John, Stevie Wonder, and many, many more. So, what you want and your musical goals are not something that is rare or unusual. As for me, I was not in a position to take piano lessons because my late wife, of 42 years, was severely disabled and confined to a wheelchair for over 20 years due to a brain tumor. I paid a sitter to stay with her during the day while I worked. When I was not at work, I was her primary care provider.

So, there was no way I had time to take piano lessons. I learned what little I know on my own by watching others, listening to others, watching piano teachers on YT videos and so on. I learned and gleaned what I could where I could; yet, I still learned from others, though I did learn some things on my own; and, as a result, my playing style is likely unorthodox, but it is my own style, for better or worse.

I reached a point where I was able to enjoy my playing and singing, although there is always room for improvement. I was unable to play in a band or a group due to my wife's illness and disability, but her needs came first. I began recording some of my playing and singing, some of which were my own original songs and arrangements, and posting them on YouTube, just for the fun of it. And, I still do on occasion. Some of my YT music videos have a good many views, and I have received many comments from others, both good and bad.

I said all that to say this, be encouraged and don't stop trying to reach your piano playing goals and all your musical performance goals and objectives. I would say there is indeed a piano teacher out there who would be more sympathetic and accommodating to your needs and your goals. You just have to find them.

One of my original songs is entitled "Play it like you want to"... some of lyrics say "you can tell me what to do, you can tell me what say, but listen to me baby, I'm going to play it my way...

Sir Elton John plays it his way. Stevie Wonder plays it his way. Ray Charles played it his way. I play it my way...

My advice to you? Play it like you want to...

Good luck!

Rick

Great advice! Play it like you want to.

Wow Rick! You are my hero!

Rick and everyone thank you thank you.

I will start a new post on the appropriate forum as I want to discuss set lists and some other things.

I've got about 50 songs in my repertoire, at varying degrees of quality lol

Band practice went well. We might have a horn player! I love Nina Simone and similar artists, I slam dunk singing that genre, and I.am attempting to start my own group.

Awesome advice.

And, If I get to the point where I can play as good as Rickster, I'll be thrilled!!!

I agree that there's no absolute requirement for lessons. But, to be clear, lessons are generally recommended on this board. A little googling reveals that Elton John earned a scholarship at the Royal Academy of Music in London at age 11. Stevie Wonder began lessons at six. Ray Charles took lessons at the St. Augustine's School for the Deaf and Blind.

I majored in Music Theory, even though I wasn't primarily a classical fan, and studied classical piano repertory to become a better player. Over the centuries, people have learned a lot about teaching the instrument.

If you don't get along with your teacher, by all means change. If you want a teacher who will teach you what you want without bothering with a classical repertory, that's fine, too.

I guess I'm just a little leery of encouraging the belief that "popular" piano players generally don't study.

What's funny is that I take this seriously, but then I don't.

I roll with the punches so to speak. And I don't want my enthusiasm to get killed.

I have no desire to perform solo, unless it's just me and my DGX and sing a longs. I don't hold any biases ie classical is better than popular, etc.

One of my absolute favorite top 5 "tunes" is Pathetique. 2nd movement. I mean listening to that I can almost "feel" Ludwig Von's pain and sadness. And the "head held up, chin up, press onward through the pain" feel of the piece. There are many classical pieces that stir me the same way.

It is one of the original forms of music. It is the "root" of a lot of the music to follow. I hold that form of music in high regard. Respect is shown by me.

But silliness and pure fun and joy have a place too! I believe music is the best thing of all things. It was said I was "personal" in what I shared. And I'm not afraid to be "personal". I feel being honest and open is always the right way to be, for me anyway. I trust until I have a reason not to. I am capable of great empathy and acceptance. I want those things for myself..i can hardly ask for that from others if I'm not willing to give that myself.

Any teacher's reading this:

I know what your job entails. I have been an instructor of other things in my life. We get the students we get. Not all of them "fit the mold" or even are "likeable". It can be rewarding AND degrading being a teacher. Having to "put up with" varying degrees of ineptitude, lack of focus, students who are ill prepared, students we can't work with, etc. I get that.

But if we fall short of your expectations, annoy you, or just don't meet your "litmus test" however that happens, YOU as the teacher (more knowledgeable) need to soldier on. If your student is following the curriculum, doing the work, is putting effort forth and ligitimately working to potential, cop them some slack. You were someone's student at one time.

To instruct just to receive your fee is wrong. Your student has desires and wants. And if it is "musical" desires letting them down could create a deep wound.

I am pretty hurt folks, although I am downplaying that. I have to. If I didn't I would be sobbing in a chair.

I am terribly embarrassed. Feeling humiliated. My pro friend (pianist) said I was "set up" to fail. I won't believe that. I can't. I'd hate to think this teacher loathed me to the point where she orchestrated (pun intended, still have a sense of humor) this.

Getting back on the keys, fooling around and playing "American Pie" ( I STILL KNOW all the lyrics!) With everyone at my home this past weekend was medicine.

Low brow. Probably had tempo all over the place. Missed notes I'm sure. We all had so much fun! My grandbabies want to be musicians, grandson is an incredible musician, the middle one is playing violin, and the baby is a natural at percussion! Maybe I should recruit them and re-do the "Partridge Family" lol

tend to rush, since you quoted me here, I'll try to respond and set the record straight. In my previous post here, and the section you quoted, I never advocated, or even come close to advocating, or encouraging the belief that "popular" piano players generally don't study. Where did you get that idea? I never said that, or even come close... I said they played it their way, which is true. Not only is it ture, but it (playing it their way and what they wanted to play) is what helped make them famous superstar artists/performers.

Also, FWIW, I've studied various aspects of music all my life. Again, and I repeat, I never said or suggested or inferred, directly or indirectly, that popular piano players don't study.

Sorry, didn't mean to horn in on Rodeo Rider's thread, and was only trying to encourage them.

Rick

You have learned a lesson however ! Never engage anyone for any purpose
If you feel the slightest bit uncomfortable with them.Every teacher needs to
correct the problems they see that a student has. However EVERY teacher needs
to respect a music student and so you need to ALSO let the them play the piece
through at times and only then work on sections.
Sometimes suggest leavIng the piece for a "while ".,work on something new ! (Perhaps easier ?)
The teacher needs to have some liking for the music the student plays OR she needs to help them
find another teacher who is more versatile in thier approach to music .Keep playing, enjoy your
music! Just try and wipe out all the bad memories of this teacher.(yes it can be done )
Best wishes!

Fair enough, Rick. You didn't say that. However, others in the thread did suggest the OP needed no teacher (which I agreed was ok!). There is, I think, a sort of belief among some of the general public, in a kind of idiot savant view of musicians - that is often unaware of the serious study of popular musicians (Louis Armstrong, for example, started playing cornet in the Colored Waif's Home). I think the argument that the OP needn't study (which I agreed was ok!!) combined with your references to Elton, Ray and Stevie, just made me want to argue against that view. You clearly didn't say that, though. My apologies, as well, for hijacking the thread.

I am a believer that study with a competent professional is ALWAYS a good thing! Where would we be without teachers, coaches and mentors?

That is why I stayed with this teacher so long. She IS a very good teacher....for most I am sure...but not for..me.

And that doesn't make me defective or even not a decent musician. It was getting stressful with me being in the presence of the "dark moods" and face aschen. I inquired a few times if there was illness or something else. I'm an intense person, and very empathic and pick up on things a lot miss.

Well I really appreciate this forum. And the response from everyone. You have all been kind and helpful. And I've gathered needed insight.

I wish my teacher could have seen me at my best. I know she'd sing along. But I knew how she felt, and I had a difficult time processing that. As best as I could I followed her directions. But my abilities suffered badly in her presence. Guess it's hard to play in front of someone who is showing disinterest and apathy towards you. Good on those who can. I can't.

You're a great group of people! Play on!
P.s. Rick I loved everything you wrote. You didn't take anything away, but added a ton!

RR