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Re: Repair of sluggish action/repetition issues in Baldwin165 [Re: shirlkirsten] #2910580
11/10/19 08:40 PM
11/10/19 08:40 PM
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Some thoughts: Modern actions often use prefinished center pins, which can be reused because the cut end does not chew up the hole. The combination broach/burnishers work well. Loosening a joint can mean that there is more spring tension on the repetition lever. The piano is fairly new and could probably use more regulation than what has been done to it, particularly if there are things that were not quite right when the piano was brand new.


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Re: Repair of sluggish action/repetition issues in Baldwin165 [Re: shirlkirsten] #2910584
11/10/19 08:48 PM
11/10/19 08:48 PM
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shirlkirsten Offline OP
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Here's testing on Middle C, one of re-pinned notes, done by a student of mine.. D right above was not one of the pinned notes. https://youtu.be/VBcXpL74uwA
BDB the FEEL of Baldwin piano is remarkably different.. It's very edgy. Lots of bobbling, plus different key drop, plus the A 2 doing something quite out of normalcy that wasn't there before.


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NYC HS of Performing Arts
Oberlin Conservatory
NYU, M.A., Steinway M grand and Baldwin165, Yamaha 255
MTAC Alameda
Re: Repair of sluggish action/repetition issues in Baldwin165 [Re: shirlkirsten] #2910592
11/10/19 09:05 PM
11/10/19 09:05 PM
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shirlkirsten Offline OP
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I am hoping Baldwin Co. straightens out the piano.


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NYC HS of Performing Arts
Oberlin Conservatory
NYU, M.A., Steinway M grand and Baldwin165, Yamaha 255
MTAC Alameda
Re: Repair of sluggish action/repetition issues in Baldwin165 [Re: BDB] #2910601
11/10/19 09:48 PM
11/10/19 09:48 PM
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shirlkirsten Offline OP
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Don't recall the tech trying to re-use the existing pin .. all I recall is that she tried different sizes..


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NYC HS of Performing Arts
Oberlin Conservatory
NYU, M.A., Steinway M grand and Baldwin165, Yamaha 255
MTAC Alameda
Re: Repair of sluggish action/repetition issues in Baldwin165 [Re: shirlkirsten] #2910616
11/10/19 11:08 PM
11/10/19 11:08 PM
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shirlkirsten Offline OP
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Could this be a possibility: Maybe the tech should have checked the repetition spring after re-pinning.


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NYC HS of Performing Arts
Oberlin Conservatory
NYU, M.A., Steinway M grand and Baldwin165, Yamaha 255
MTAC Alameda
Re: Repair of sluggish action/repetition issues in Baldwin165 [Re: shirlkirsten] #2910618
11/10/19 11:20 PM
11/10/19 11:20 PM
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shirlkirsten Offline OP
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Opinion from a tech: Those center pins may have been a bit too tight to begin with, and the springs may have been adjusted to overcome that tightness - and now they are too strong. That could cause hammer bobble if the drop is adjusted too close.


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NYC HS of Performing Arts
Oberlin Conservatory
NYU, M.A., Steinway M grand and Baldwin165, Yamaha 255
MTAC Alameda
Re: Repair of sluggish action/repetition issues in Baldwin165 [Re: shirlkirsten] #2910620
11/10/19 11:39 PM
11/10/19 11:39 PM
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Can’t say I know how Baldwin decides how to deal with warranty but maybe they sent the tech to simply deal with the friction issues. Regulation can be lengthy and it’s more like maintenance, not repair. My guess is Baldwin will resist getting drawn into a regulation.
Do you have a copy of warranty?
maybe contact them to get some feedback from the visit. Try to get the techs perspective/analysis.


RPT
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Re: Repair of sluggish action/repetition issues in Baldwin165 [Re: shirlkirsten] #2910632
11/11/19 01:11 AM
11/11/19 01:11 AM
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It was also my thought that regulation would be maintenance, rather than warranty, and I suspect that the person sent for warranty work on a less expensive piano is not necessarily going to be the best person for the job.


Semipro Tech
Re: Repair of sluggish action/repetition issues in Baldwin165 [Re: shirlkirsten] #2910639
11/11/19 01:43 AM
11/11/19 01:43 AM
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Originally Posted by shirlkirsten
Linda Kay RPT was up to the task as revealed in this short video. Trust me, I allowed her to do her work over 3 plus dedicated hours. But it was definitely a learning experience for me. https://youtu.be/POE3Z_WBS0U


piano's technician madame crookedly holds a screwdriver, at the time of fixing off a screw. Is it so?

Re: Repair of sluggish action/repetition issues in Baldwin165 [Re: Gene Nelson] #2910642
11/11/19 01:53 AM
11/11/19 01:53 AM
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My problem is that the tech did something to create problems with the very notes she re-pinned. And that whatever maneuver caused drop problems, plus glaring A2 bellows after one strike on a note, must be addressed. For every action there's a reaction. Baldwin can't slip out of basic difficulties that ensued from the tech's intervention. Wish Israel Stein had not relocated. He would have been able to deal with all the issues. I have all the documentation in footage that I need, plus students who play this piano and notice problems that have now ensued. I can graphically show that A2 never had the glaring situation it's now in with my recorded BEFORE and AFTER detailing. The escapement and drop on Middle C, re-pinned by the tech now has a problem..

Last edited by shirlkirsten; 11/11/19 02:02 AM.

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NYC HS of Performing Arts
Oberlin Conservatory
NYU, M.A., Steinway M grand and Baldwin165, Yamaha 255
MTAC Alameda
Re: Repair of sluggish action/repetition issues in Baldwin165 [Re: Gene Nelson] #2910644
11/11/19 02:05 AM
11/11/19 02:05 AM
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shirlkirsten Offline OP
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The dealer was sent a copy of the Warranty from the get go. I was right on it. He's the new owner of the establishment.


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NYC HS of Performing Arts
Oberlin Conservatory
NYU, M.A., Steinway M grand and Baldwin165, Yamaha 255
MTAC Alameda
Re: Repair of sluggish action/repetition issues in Baldwin165 [Re: Gene Nelson] #2910646
11/11/19 02:07 AM
11/11/19 02:07 AM
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The dealer is on it and will get back to me Tuesday when he speaks to Baldwin. He said he was glad to have the various videos... keeping him informed.


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NYC HS of Performing Arts
Oberlin Conservatory
NYU, M.A., Steinway M grand and Baldwin165, Yamaha 255
MTAC Alameda
Re: Repair of sluggish action/repetition issues in Baldwin165 [Re: shirlkirsten] #2910741
11/11/19 10:37 AM
11/11/19 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by shirlkirsten
Opinion from a tech: Those center pins may have been a bit too tight to begin with, and the springs may have been adjusted to overcome that tightness - and now they are too strong. That could cause hammer bobble if the drop is adjusted too close.


Why hasn't the tech returned to come fix the problem? Following up quickly on issues that show up is basic good customer service 101.

Re: Repair of sluggish action/repetition issues in Baldwin165 [Re: shirlkirsten] #2910746
11/11/19 10:45 AM
11/11/19 10:45 AM
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Shirley,

You are correct in that for every action there is a reaction. I also agree that Baldwin is not like to consider regulation as part if warranty. What they (manufacturers) tend to do is toss this off to the dealer and let them worry about it. If the dealer is concerned enough about their reputation they may do something to alleviate it. Worth a try though.

Pwg


Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK0T7_I_nV8
Re: Repair of sluggish action/repetition issues in Baldwin165 [Re: P W Grey] #2910779
11/11/19 12:26 PM
11/11/19 12:26 PM
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shirlkirsten Offline OP
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Thanks for your feedback. So what I see here is every note (5 of them) that was re-pinned has good repetition response but each needed an adjustment in relation to the note beside it (sadly two of the five notes were Middle C and B) When you play a passage and have to approach these notes, the feel is different in and around them That is the crux of it. My student and I went over these relationships to the escapement. In addition the A2 that was fine prior to any work here, started bellowing three times at one target FF. The rest is my responsibility and I will gladly engage a tech for. The dealer has been very professional and is the new owner of the establishment. I brought a student two months ago over there to look at pianos. I am glad to do business with him. I think he is making good contacts in an amiable way with the MTAC.. our community of teachers. With the sale of pianos going down, and digitals flooding the market, I and others are very proactive to see acoustic pianos bought. Makes it easier for piano teachers, many of whom like myself ask a prospective student to have a real piano to learn on.


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NYC HS of Performing Arts
Oberlin Conservatory
NYU, M.A., Steinway M grand and Baldwin165, Yamaha 255
MTAC Alameda
Re: Repair of sluggish action/repetition issues in Baldwin165 [Re: Ed A. Hall] #2910780
11/11/19 12:27 PM
11/11/19 12:27 PM
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He is in Israel and relocated a few years ago. Simply put.


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NYC HS of Performing Arts
Oberlin Conservatory
NYU, M.A., Steinway M grand and Baldwin165, Yamaha 255
MTAC Alameda
Re: Repair of sluggish action/repetition issues in Baldwin165 [Re: Ed A. Hall] #2910788
11/11/19 12:58 PM
11/11/19 12:58 PM
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These are ideas from techs like those on PW.. not my tech.


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NYC HS of Performing Arts
Oberlin Conservatory
NYU, M.A., Steinway M grand and Baldwin165, Yamaha 255
MTAC Alameda
Re: Repair of sluggish action/repetition issues in Baldwin165 [Re: shirlkirsten] #2910804
11/11/19 01:32 PM
11/11/19 01:32 PM
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Ed Sutton Online content
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Shirley-
To repeat and expand on what I said before:
You were happy with the piano's performance when you bought it, and for nearly five years.
It is reasonable to expect that the piano be brought back to that level of performance, since it was clearly capable of that level of performance.
The problems you presented to the dealer were problems that should be covered by the warranty.
They were not unusual, they are very typical of problems encountered in fairly new pianos.
Further problems occurred immediately after the piano was serviced by a technician sent by the dealer.
It is reasonable to expect that the dealer will do what is necessary to return the piano to its original level of performance.
Hope for the best!


Ed Sutton, RPT
Just a piano tuner!
Durham NC USA
Re: Repair of sluggish action/repetition issues in Baldwin165 [Re: shirlkirsten] #2910870
11/11/19 05:05 PM
11/11/19 05:05 PM
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Single strike on A2--I photographed the hammer response-- ON A SINGLE STRIKE the hammer is hitting the string twice and often three times. This is important as I need to be informed at least about what is causing each issue as I look inside the action https://youtu.be/ImpNEn2Ec1E
This was NOT a pre-existing problem. (before tech came here) This note borders the one where the tech adjusted the drop on 22 notes by 1) tightening the resting rail screws, and in the footage I see that she
2)went under the rail and was doing something with a tool under the rail. (side to side movement) I have seen that done with regulation. I am sure the dealer (having the footage) will abide by the Warranty. So far the dealer has been very professional, understanding and cooperative. I will know more tomorrow.

Last edited by shirlkirsten; 11/11/19 05:08 PM.

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NYC HS of Performing Arts
Oberlin Conservatory
NYU, M.A., Steinway M grand and Baldwin165, Yamaha 255
MTAC Alameda
Re: Repair of sluggish action/repetition issues in Baldwin165 [Re: Ed Sutton] #2910872
11/11/19 05:10 PM
11/11/19 05:10 PM
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Thanks, Ed. I just posted a view of the A2 Hammer hitting the string twice on a single note strike. The piano is 4 years old--bought in 2015. (it gets 50% playing shared with 50% on my vintage Steinway M) https://youtu.be/ImpNEn2Ec1E


Piano blog: Performances, Instruction, Interviews
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You Tube Channel
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NYC HS of Performing Arts
Oberlin Conservatory
NYU, M.A., Steinway M grand and Baldwin165, Yamaha 255
MTAC Alameda
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