2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.9 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Free Trial
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

Who's Online Now
43 registered members (amyram, ChrisGoesPiano, Charades, Beowulf, Dfrankjazz, George Roos, fofig, Fer15, Animisha, 7 invisible), 269 guests, and 460 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
Repair of sluggish action/repetition issues in Baldwin165 #2909816 11/08/19 09:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,778
S
shirlkirsten Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
1000 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,778
Linda Kay RPT was up to the task as revealed in this short video. Trust me, I allowed her to do her work over 3 plus dedicated hours. But it was definitely a learning experience for me. https://youtu.be/POE3Z_WBS0U Note a second problem that she addressed. I had discovered about 22 bass notes that had extreme drop issues. You will see how that played out in the video.
Kudos to Linda Kay RPT Bay Area CA https://youtu.be/POE3Z_WBS0U


Piano blog: Performances, Instruction, Interviews
http://www.arioso7.wordpress.com

You Tube Channel
http://www.youtube.com/arioso7



NYC HS of Performing Arts
Oberlin Conservatory
NYU, M.A., Steinway M grand and Baldwin165, Yamaha 255
MTAC Alameda
(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
Re: Repair of sluggish action/repetition issues in Baldwin165 [Re: shirlkirsten] #2909829 11/08/19 10:06 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 276
Emery Wang Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 276
Nice. Quick question: why ream the sticking flanges to the extent you need a bigger pin? Could she have slightly reamed the flange to loosen it, then reinstalled the original pin?


Kawai MP11SE
Kawai GL10
Re: Repair of sluggish action/repetition issues in Baldwin165 [Re: shirlkirsten] #2909830 11/08/19 10:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,778
S
shirlkirsten Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
1000 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,778
All I know is that what she did worked!!! 5 notes are back to excellent repetitions!


Piano blog: Performances, Instruction, Interviews
http://www.arioso7.wordpress.com

You Tube Channel
http://www.youtube.com/arioso7



NYC HS of Performing Arts
Oberlin Conservatory
NYU, M.A., Steinway M grand and Baldwin165, Yamaha 255
MTAC Alameda
Re: Repair of sluggish action/repetition issues in Baldwin165 [Re: shirlkirsten] #2909886 11/09/19 03:53 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,092
D
David Boyce Offline
Gold Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
Gold Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member
D
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,092
So, as we suspected in here, irrespective of the ideal humidity in the room, the issue was sluggish action centers.

I think I'd be inclined to try Protek CLP before reaming and re-pinning. Do others disagree? Puzzled also, about the use of bigger pins, unless the action of removing the old pin had somehow widened the birds-eye hole.

Anyway, its great that your piano is repeating well now! But if more notes go the same way, I'd try the Protek CLP.

Re: Repair of sluggish action/repetition issues in Baldwin165 [Re: shirlkirsten] #2910219 11/09/19 10:29 PM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 221
Duaner Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 221
I'm with David for sure in that I would definitely use CLP first before anything else. If that fails then the pin change is needed....but bigger diameter pin??? I use the same diameter I took out even if I reem it. It's been a while but that's how I have done it in the past. Great video, though and very pretty "nails".... thanks.
.


Duane Graves


"Pushin 70...still haven fun I think..."
Re: Repair of sluggish action/repetition issues in Baldwin165 [Re: shirlkirsten] #2910258 11/10/19 04:08 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,092
D
David Boyce Offline
Gold Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
Gold Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member
D
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,092
The only reason to change to a bigger diameter pin, I think, would be if the birds-eye hole in the wood had somehow gotten enlarged, such that the original size pin was slack in the hole.

Reaming should be done carefully so as not to remove too much busing cloth. A centre pin of the same size, roughed-up between two files and held in a pin vice, can be used to help ream the bushing without cutting away too much bushing cloth from the interior of the hole.

Re: Repair of sluggish action/repetition issues in Baldwin165 [Re: shirlkirsten] #2910298 11/10/19 08:16 AM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,903
P
P W Grey Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,903
AFAIK it is standard practice to go up one pin size (.001") whenever repinning a cloth bushing. The clear reason is that the wood in the birdseye does not spring back sufficiently to hold the pin firmly enough to prevent rotation. This is of no consequence in New or nearly new wood as it is compliant. There are numerous misconceptions out there about this process and I have seen numerous examples of NOT understanding it...needing correction later. She did it correctly.

In the video the explanation for drop and hammer rest rail are slightly wanting. "Drop" is simply a visual indicator of movement limitation of the balancier. We call it drop because of how we adjust the screw (we do not tighten or loosen it but rather adjust it up or down). The function is to create a safety factor to prevent the hammer from bobbling against the string when not checked by the backcheck. (There was one point at which she was inadvertently adjusting the wrong screw but she eventually took care of it).

The hammer rest rail is a misnomer because the design of the action does not permit the shank to "rest" there, it is to be about a shanks width above it (as Linda said). Once again, it's junction is a limiter to prevent the shank from hitting the parts below it and making lots of noise.

I think she did a fine job.

Pwg


Last edited by P W Grey; 11/10/19 08:18 AM.

Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK0T7_I_nV8
Re: Repair of sluggish action/repetition issues in Baldwin165 [Re: shirlkirsten] #2910376 11/10/19 12:15 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 5,462
E
Ed McMorrow, RPT Offline
5000 Post Club Member
Offline
5000 Post Club Member
E
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 5,462
I am with Peter's explanation 100%.

Hope no other action centers start seizing.


In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible.
According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed.
Contact: Ed@LightHammerpiano.com
Re: Repair of sluggish action/repetition issues in Baldwin165 [Re: P W Grey] #2910406 11/10/19 01:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,778
S
shirlkirsten Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
1000 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,778
I am now furious as the piano is not in good playing condition post tech visit... The DROP screws being tightened by the tech in the 22 note bass area has caused problems all over the piano. And take a listen to A2 that now has three bellows in one target strike. https://youtu.be/b-c3dV1ij4Q There are bobbling notes all over the place. It's a disaster. Fix one thing, leave me with other problems in the aftermath. The piano "FEELS" entirely different now. and not for the better. I have now detailed the whole piano.
I made two other videos showing bobbling all over the place.. And those notes that were FIXED as to repetitions also feel differently. I am growing very frustrated by all of these post tech visit problems.
Would the DROP screw change have affected the whole piano's sense of depression into the keys. How could she restrict her bass area regulation without affecting the rest of the piano???

Last edited by shirlkirsten; 11/10/19 01:55 PM.

Piano blog: Performances, Instruction, Interviews
http://www.arioso7.wordpress.com

You Tube Channel
http://www.youtube.com/arioso7



NYC HS of Performing Arts
Oberlin Conservatory
NYU, M.A., Steinway M grand and Baldwin165, Yamaha 255
MTAC Alameda
Re: Repair of sluggish action/repetition issues in Baldwin165 [Re: Ed McMorrow, RPT] #2910410 11/10/19 01:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,778
S
shirlkirsten Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
1000 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,778
Ed, I am furious at how the piano functions NOW.. more details in another reply. I have retreated to my American made Steinway to protect my hands. I


Piano blog: Performances, Instruction, Interviews
http://www.arioso7.wordpress.com

You Tube Channel
http://www.youtube.com/arioso7



NYC HS of Performing Arts
Oberlin Conservatory
NYU, M.A., Steinway M grand and Baldwin165, Yamaha 255
MTAC Alameda
Re: Repair of sluggish action/repetition issues in Baldwin165 [Re: shirlkirsten] #2910411 11/10/19 01:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,778
S
shirlkirsten Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
1000 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,778
Would the size 20 pin have altered the weight of the keys addressed in the repair???


Piano blog: Performances, Instruction, Interviews
http://www.arioso7.wordpress.com

You Tube Channel
http://www.youtube.com/arioso7



NYC HS of Performing Arts
Oberlin Conservatory
NYU, M.A., Steinway M grand and Baldwin165, Yamaha 255
MTAC Alameda
Re: Repair of sluggish action/repetition issues in Baldwin165 [Re: Duaner] #2910415 11/10/19 02:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,778
S
shirlkirsten Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
1000 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,778
Would the greater size pin affect the "Feel" of the notes--or weight of the feel.. because there has been a change.. and not for the better. I have now detailed the repaired notes carefully and the whole piano.. Lots of additional problems now graphically displayed on video.. Such as this https://youtu.be/b-c3dV1ij4Q
plus an array of BOBBLING, indefinite notes all over the place. Piano feels significantly worse to play.

Last edited by shirlkirsten; 11/10/19 02:07 PM.

Piano blog: Performances, Instruction, Interviews
http://www.arioso7.wordpress.com

You Tube Channel
http://www.youtube.com/arioso7



NYC HS of Performing Arts
Oberlin Conservatory
NYU, M.A., Steinway M grand and Baldwin165, Yamaha 255
MTAC Alameda
Re: Repair of sluggish action/repetition issues in Baldwin165 [Re: shirlkirsten] #2910417 11/10/19 02:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,778
S
shirlkirsten Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
1000 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,778
At this point I will PAY what it takes to do a decent action regulation. I am otherwise exasperated. This Warranty work is not up to snuff as yet.


Piano blog: Performances, Instruction, Interviews
http://www.arioso7.wordpress.com

You Tube Channel
http://www.youtube.com/arioso7



NYC HS of Performing Arts
Oberlin Conservatory
NYU, M.A., Steinway M grand and Baldwin165, Yamaha 255
MTAC Alameda
Re: Repair of sluggish action/repetition issues in Baldwin165 [Re: shirlkirsten] #2910429 11/10/19 02:44 PM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,903
P
P W Grey Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,903
Shirley,

Okay, this is a little odd, however I personally questioned why she was adjusting the drop screws for the issue you had. What you are hearing is that the hammer is not checking at all. As to why, I cannot say without seeing it. Is A2 one of the notes that had the jack re-pinned?

It should have been caught before she left, either by her or by you. Did it work fine at first, and then start doing this?

Pwg

Last edited by P W Grey; 11/10/19 02:49 PM.

Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK0T7_I_nV8
Re: Repair of sluggish action/repetition issues in Baldwin165 [Re: shirlkirsten] #2910431 11/10/19 02:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,778
S
shirlkirsten Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
1000 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,778
NO it was not one of the jack re-pinned notes but it was in the area of the drop screw tightening maneuver that she recommended. Notice as well this bobbling D5 which epitomizes eons OF NEW BOBBLING NOTES----
https://youtu.be/mmdQ_BDc46M

Last edited by shirlkirsten; 11/10/19 02:49 PM.

Piano blog: Performances, Instruction, Interviews
http://www.arioso7.wordpress.com

You Tube Channel
http://www.youtube.com/arioso7



NYC HS of Performing Arts
Oberlin Conservatory
NYU, M.A., Steinway M grand and Baldwin165, Yamaha 255
MTAC Alameda
Re: Repair of sluggish action/repetition issues in Baldwin165 [Re: P W Grey] #2910435 11/10/19 02:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,778
S
shirlkirsten Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
1000 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,778
I never experienced A2 to have this issue prior to the tech visit. In fact I carefully detailed the whole piano numerous times in the days before her arrival and made a list of problems--related to the sluggish notes that she addressed. A2 was NOT on the list of sluggish notes. I had no problem with it prior..

Last edited by shirlkirsten; 11/10/19 02:53 PM.

Piano blog: Performances, Instruction, Interviews
http://www.arioso7.wordpress.com

You Tube Channel
http://www.youtube.com/arioso7



NYC HS of Performing Arts
Oberlin Conservatory
NYU, M.A., Steinway M grand and Baldwin165, Yamaha 255
MTAC Alameda
Re: Repair of sluggish action/repetition issues in Baldwin165 [Re: shirlkirsten] #2910438 11/10/19 03:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,778
S
shirlkirsten Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
1000 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,778
The new BOBBLING note, D5 is a skip down from the repaired re-pinned F5 https://youtu.be/mmdQ_BDc46M

Last edited by shirlkirsten; 11/10/19 03:11 PM.

Piano blog: Performances, Instruction, Interviews
http://www.arioso7.wordpress.com

You Tube Channel
http://www.youtube.com/arioso7



NYC HS of Performing Arts
Oberlin Conservatory
NYU, M.A., Steinway M grand and Baldwin165, Yamaha 255
MTAC Alameda
Re: Repair of sluggish action/repetition issues in Baldwin165 [Re: shirlkirsten] #2910461 11/10/19 04:01 PM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 194
E
Ed Sutton Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
E
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 194
In the earlier video, I did not understand the reason for lowering drop.
The hammers were resting on the hammer rest rail, and then were corrected. How?
Were the key capstans raised a little bit, or was the hammer rest rail lowered?
I'm grasping here, but lowering the rest rail too far can interfere with wippen movement, and thus possibly with full key movement, which might prevent full checking. Or by chance was the damper upstop rail set too low?
Certainly a time for another talk with the dealer.
You might insist that the action be regulated by a technician you can mutually agree upon.


Ed Sutton, RPT
Just a piano tuner!
Durham NC USA
Re: Repair of sluggish action/repetition issues in Baldwin165 [Re: shirlkirsten] #2910469 11/10/19 04:13 PM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,903
P
P W Grey Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,903
Ed,

You may have hit it. I didn't even think of that. Yes, if she lowered the rail rather than adjust the capstans that could do it.

Uh oh...

Pwg


Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK0T7_I_nV8
Re: Repair of sluggish action/repetition issues in Baldwin165 [Re: P W Grey] #2910499 11/10/19 05:18 PM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 194
E
Ed Sutton Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
E
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 194
It's easy to fix! ;-)


Ed Sutton, RPT
Just a piano tuner!
Durham NC USA
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Piano World 

What's Hot!!
News from the Piano World
Our January 2020 Newsletter Available Online Now...
Free Piano Newsletter
----------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Shop our Store for Music Lovers!
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Alicia Keys - Moonlight Sonata
by Pathetique1 - 02/25/20 03:09 AM
Int/Midi button on Kawai MP11
by giu - 02/25/20 02:56 AM
New bass strings sound hollow
by Emery Wang - 02/25/20 01:01 AM
About Yamaha cx
by Fer15 - 02/24/20 11:48 PM
grades of pieces
by Kaori Miyamoto - 02/24/20 05:40 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics197,176
Posts2,929,692
Members96,104
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2019 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3