2022 our 25th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Who's Online Now
35 members (David B, AlkansBookcase, Bruce Sato, dh371, APianistHasNoName, BillS728, bcalvanese, 10 invisible), 1,199 guests, and 297 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
#2906396 10/30/19 11:13 AM
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 72
A
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
A
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 72
I'm curious if anyone has had an insight they might like to share that others newer to the learning process might benefit from. Maybe the "eureka" moment that made a piece "click" or enabled some sort of rapid progress to be made--or some technique to fall into place.

I had two such moments yesterday during and after a lesson.

The first was very simple: I had been struggling to play an uptempo passage. My teacher suggested a looser wristed approach. This immediately brought the part to a presentable state. I generally have a fairly light touch but was tensing up in anticipation of difficulty---Perhaps the worst thing one could do.
Simple, tangible, immediate impact.

The other was after sharing with my teacher that I thought one of the pieces I've been working on sounded poor. She disagreed and suggested I record myself. For some reason I had never done so. I was pleasantly surprised to hear that she was right---and more importantly-- I was also able to make some minor tempo/dynamic tweaks to other pieces for an immediate impact. Wish I'd been doing this all along.

I realize that neither of these examples are novel or new ideas---low hanging fruit---but perhaps someone else may find this useful.

I'm curious to hear what others might have to share.

Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 249
E
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
E
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 249
This is probably really obvious to everyone but me, but...

I was practicing playing random major scales. The program would give me the key signature, and I had to play the scale, but there was a time limit to start. I was having trouble deciphering everything quickly enough to know where the sharps and flats were before starting. After a while, I realized they're really predictable. Sharps start on the left and go from the left black key in the group of 3, then the left black key in the group of two, then next from the left on the group of three, then the next from the left in the group of two, then the last in the group of three. Then you're out of black keys, so you go to the white key left of the group of 3, and then the white key to the left of the group of two. Flats are the same, but they start from the right side instead of the left side. Realizing this made it so much faster to see a key signature, count that there are x number of sharps/flats, and automatically know where they are on the keyboard without even thinking about it.

Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 72
A
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
A
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 72
Originally Posted by enw10
This is probably really obvious to everyone but me, but...

I was practicing playing random major scales. The program would give me the key signature, and I had to play the scale, but there was a time limit to start. I was having trouble deciphering everything quickly enough to know where the sharps and flats were before starting. After a while, I realized they're really predictable. Sharps start on the left and go from the left black key in the group of 3, then the left black key in the group of two, then next from the left on the group of three, then the next from the left in the group of two, then the last in the group of three. Then you're out of black keys, so you go to the white key left of the group of 3, and then the white key to the left of the group of two. Flats are the same, but they start from the right side instead of the left side. Realizing this made it so much faster to see a key signature, count that there are x number of sharps/flats, and automatically know where they are on the keyboard without even thinking about it.


Defintely not obvious to me---and definitely useful.

Thanks for sharing

Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 16
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 16
Originally Posted by Antihero
Originally Posted by enw10
This is probably really obvious to everyone but me, but...

I was practicing playing random major scales. The program would give me the key signature, and I had to play the scale, but there was a time limit to start. I was having trouble deciphering everything quickly enough to know where the sharps and flats were before starting. After a while, I realized they're really predictable. Sharps start on the left and go from the left black key in the group of 3, then the left black key in the group of two, then next from the left on the group of three, then the next from the left in the group of two, then the last in the group of three. Then you're out of black keys, so you go to the white key left of the group of 3, and then the white key to the left of the group of two. Flats are the same, but they start from the right side instead of the left side. Realizing this made it so much faster to see a key signature, count that there are x number of sharps/flats, and automatically know where they are on the keyboard without even thinking about it.


Defintely not obvious to me---and definitely useful.

Thanks for sharing


+1


Yamaha P-515 - Nord Stage 4
Previous: Yamaha CLP-155 || AUGUST FORSTER 116E
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,817
5000 Post Club Member
Online Crying
5000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,817
Originally Posted by Antihero
I'm curious if anyone has had an insight they might like to share that others newer to the learning process might benefit from. Maybe the "eureka" moment that made a piece "click" or enabled some sort of rapid progress to be made--or some technique to fall into place.

I had two such moments yesterday during and after a lesson.

The first was very simple: I had been struggling to play an uptempo passage. My teacher suggested a looser wristed approach. This immediately brought the part to a presentable state. I generally have a fairly light touch but was tensing up in anticipation of difficulty---Perhaps the worst thing one could do.
Simple, tangible, immediate impact.

The other was after sharing with my teacher that I thought one of the pieces I've been working on sounded poor. She disagreed and suggested I record myself. For some reason I had never done so. I was pleasantly surprised to hear that she was right---and more importantly-- I was also able to make some minor tempo/dynamic tweaks to other pieces for an immediate impact. Wish I'd been doing this all along.

I realize that neither of these examples are novel or new ideas---low hanging fruit---but perhaps someone else may find this useful.

I'm curious to hear what others might have to share.


Recording yourself can be very discouraging early on, You picked a good time to start. thumb

When it seems like small pieces of advice are having a big effect, you could argue that that's because of all our previous work.

Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 72
A
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
A
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 72
Originally Posted by johnstaf
Originally Posted by Antihero
I'm curious if anyone has had an insight they might like to share that others newer to the learning process might benefit from. Maybe the "eureka" moment that made a piece "click" or enabled some sort of rapid progress to be made--or some technique to fall into place.

I had two such moments yesterday during and after a lesson.

The first was very simple: I had been struggling to play an uptempo passage. My teacher suggested a looser wristed approach. This immediately brought the part to a presentable state. I generally have a fairly light touch but was tensing up in anticipation of difficulty---Perhaps the worst thing one could do.
Simple, tangible, immediate impact.

The other was after sharing with my teacher that I thought one of the pieces I've been working on sounded poor. She disagreed and suggested I record myself. For some reason I had never done so. I was pleasantly surprised to hear that she was right---and more importantly-- I was also able to make some minor tempo/dynamic tweaks to other pieces for an immediate impact. Wish I'd been doing this all along.

I realize that neither of these examples are novel or new ideas---low hanging fruit---but perhaps someone else may find this useful.

I'm curious to hear what others might have to share.


Recording yourself can be very discouraging early on, You picked a good time to start. thumb

When it seems like small pieces of advice are having a big effect, you could argue that that's because of all our previous work.



Maybe I should be glad I waited to start recording---but I am finding it extremely helpful already. Much more than anticipated.

You're probably right about the groundwork exaggerating the impact of small pieces of advice. But can't help but wonder about other low hanging fruit.

Joined: May 2019
Posts: 161
P
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 161
enw10 - Thanks for sharing about the flats and sharps. I didn't know that. That's cool!
Antihero - Talking about recording yourself. When you have been working on a piece for awhile, sometimes you don't really see the improvement where your teacher can. What I do is record a new piece fairly early in the learning process and then again when I pass the piece. Sometimes I'll record it a few times in the middle of my learning it. I save all these recordings on my computer in a folder with the date that I passed it with the name of the piece. I also make a paper copy of the piece and write the dates that I started and finished it and keep it in a three ring binder by date and year. I then have all pieces I've played in one location and can go to the recording if I want to or just play from my binder. It's an encouragement to see my progress this way. In January I will be starting my third year.


Pat, short for Patricia
Kawai KG-1 5’5” baby grand
Started piano lessons in my retirement, January 2018
PatG #2906507 10/30/19 04:59 PM
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 72
A
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
A
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 72
Originally Posted by PatG
enw10 - Thanks for sharing about the flats and sharps. I didn't know that. That's cool!
Antihero - Talking about recording yourself. When you have been working on a piece for awhile, sometimes you don't really see the improvement where your teacher can. What I do is record a new piece fairly early in the learning process and then again when I pass the piece. Sometimes I'll record it a few times in the middle of my learning it. I save all these recordings on my computer in a folder with the date that I passed it with the name of the piece. I also make a paper copy of the piece and write the dates that I started and finished it and keep it in a three ring binder by date and year. I then have all pieces I've played in one location and can go to the recording if I want to or just play from my binder. It's an encouragement to see my progress this way. In January I will be starting my third year.


Thanks. I like the approach to recording.

Out of curiosity: Does pass mean your instructor blesses you to move on or are you officially working through grades or levels?

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,065
E
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
E
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,065
Originally Posted by Antihero
I'm curious if anyone has had an insight they might like to share that others newer to the learning process might benefit from. Maybe the "eureka" moment that made a piece "click" or enabled some sort of rapid progress to be made--or some technique to fall into place.



My eureka moment came years ago, but a book I bought recently, (How to Blitz Sight Reading by Samantha Coates), reminded me of it because the author had formalised what I had discovered back then. It was simply that for sight reading (and playing in general), physically understanding the rhythm is a major factor. While we are taught to count, and initially encouraged to count out loud, it is often too demanding to count, think, look ahead and play, all at the same time. So recognising various rhythms needs to become as second nature as playing in keys with accidentals.

In the aforementioned book, the student taps out the treble with the right hand and the bass with the left (while counting). Seems easy enough until you hit your own personal wall. For some of these exercises, it might take me several days of test and sleep before the rhythm becomes more natural, and only then is it any use trying to do the actual exercise as a sight reading exercise.

As a side benefit, doing tapping exercises that were a little advanced of my sight reading level, made exercises at my actual level seem much easier.

What I have found during the journey, is that my eureka moments are generally me just finally getting something my teacher has already been telling me for ages. smile


Surprisingly easy, barely an inconvenience.

Kawai K8 & Kawai Novus NV10


13x[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 72
A
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
A
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 72
Originally Posted by earlofmar
Originally Posted by Antihero
I'm curious if anyone has had an insight they might like to share that others newer to the learning process might benefit from. Maybe the "eureka" moment that made a piece "click" or enabled some sort of rapid progress to be made--or some technique to fall into place.



My eureka moment came years ago, but a book I bought recently, (How to Blitz Sight Reading by Samantha Coates), reminded me of it because the author had formalised what I had discovered back then. It was simply that for sight reading (and playing in general), physically understanding the rhythm is a major factor. While we are taught to count, and initially encouraged to count out loud, it is often too demanding to count, think, look ahead and play, all at the same time. So recognising various rhythms needs to become as second nature as playing in keys with accidentals.

In the aforementioned book, the student taps out the treble with the right hand and the bass with the left (while counting). Seems easy enough until you hit your own personal wall. For some of these exercises, it might take me several days of test and sleep before the rhythm becomes more natural, and only then is it any use trying to do the actual exercise as a sight reading exercise.

As a side benefit, doing tapping exercises that were a little advanced of my sight reading level, made exercises at my actual level seem much easier.

What I have found during the journey, is that my eureka moments are generally me just finally getting something my teacher has already been telling me for ages. smile



The tapping exercise sounds very useful. I could have used that when learning Opening by Philip Glass!
Would have saved me some frustration.

Your last statement does make sense. Maybe it is just sometimes a matter of the right learning situationto make things "gel".

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 3,808
Silver Level
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
Silver Level
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 3,808
Thousands of these moments will combine to make you a great player!

AOTW Achievement of The Week is filled with moments like this.


Steinway A3
Boston 118 PE

YouTube

Working On
Chopin Nocturne E min
Bach Inventions

"You Can Never Have Too Many Dream Pianos" -Thad Carhart
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 72
A
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
A
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 72
Originally Posted by cmb13
Thousands of these moments will combine to make you a great player!

AOTW Achievement of The Week is filled with moments like this.


I hope you're correct!

I'm not sure what AOTW means. Could you please elaborate?

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,945
Silver Subscriber
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
Silver Subscriber
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,945
Slow practice.

When I practise, I slow down till I don't make mistakes. I read somewhere that a repeated mistake will take a lot of practice to get rid of it.



“To send light into the darkness of men’s hearts - such is the duty of the artist.”
- Robert Schumann

Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,824
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,824
Originally Posted by Antihero
I'm not sure what AOTW means. Could you please elaborate?

This thread here.


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 882
P
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 882
One of my Eureka moments (I've had a few, but they didn't always lead to much) was from watching a Graham Fitch video on practicing. For various reasons (which I've been into before at tedious length, but basically so as not drive those within earshot barking mad...) I often used to play a new piece through as a 'sketch' - the 'main parts,' as I recognise them (all the way through, though, which is probably a bit naughty, at tempo, with expression etc.) and then on subsequent playings add more and more in, although occasionally altering which bits were added if I needed to concentrate more on the new bit added, but always with the intention of getting it all included and working to tempo and with expression whilst going along.

From one of Graham's videos it seems that this is (in part) a valid approach
I tend not to do this so much at the moment because I can play using headphones, but in fact it is / was much more enjoyable than breaking the piece up into manageable chunks and practicing slowly. However, I'm grateful to Graham Fitch for at least a 'partial validation' of my approach - which was my 'Eureka moment.'


regards
Pete
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,824
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,824
Originally Posted by petebfrance
One of my Eureka moments (I've had a few, but they didn't always lead to much) was from watching a Graham Fitch video on practicing.

If you found that video worthwhile, I just wanted to mention that Fitch has an entire series on practicing of multiple parts and volumes. Some are free to read for Amazon Prime members.


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 882
P
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 882
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by petebfrance
One of my Eureka moments (I've had a few, but they didn't always lead to much) was from watching a Graham Fitch video on practicing.

If you found that video worthwhile, I just wanted to mention that Fitch has an entire series on practicing of multiple parts and volumes. Some are free to read for Amazon Prime members.

Thank-you, that is very interesting. Will have a look although I don't have Amazon Prime. I have watched a number of his videos and kept links to them for later use, but so far haven't needed to go back - his approach makes things 'sink in' rather well - kind of slow absorption, but goes in quite deep (or maybe I've just forgotten what they were about. wink )


regards
Pete
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,824
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,824
Originally Posted by petebfrance
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by petebfrance
One of my Eureka moments (I've had a few, but they didn't always lead to much) was from watching a Graham Fitch video on practicing.

If you found that video worthwhile, I just wanted to mention that Fitch has an entire series on practicing of multiple parts and volumes. Some are free to read for Amazon Prime members.

Thank-you, that is very interesting. Will have a look although I don't have Amazon Prime. I have watched a number of his videos and kept links to them for later use, but so far haven't needed to go back - his approach makes things 'sink in' rather well - kind of slow absorption, but goes in quite deep (or maybe I've just forgotten what they were about. wink )

Sorry, I realized it wasn't Amazon Prime, but Kindle Unlimited which I also am subscribing to. There is a 30-day free trial if you just want to subscribe, read, and cancel. This is the first in the series from Amazon.co.uk.


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 72
A
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
A
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 72
Originally Posted by Serge88
Slow practice.

When I practise, I slow down till I don't make mistakes. I read somewhere that a repeated mistake will take a lot of practice to get rid of it.


Great insight.

I unfortunately drilled the second part of Fur Elise with bad timing before I should have been

I am still trying to undo the damage.

Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 72
A
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
A
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 72
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by Antihero
I'm not sure what AOTW means. Could you please elaborate?

This thread here.


Thanks!

Seems so obvious now...

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Bart K, platuser 

Link Copied to Clipboard
What's Hot!!
Piano World Has Been Sold!
--------------------
Forums RULES, Terms of Service & HELP
(updated 06/06/2022)
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
(ad)
(ad)
New Topics - Multiple Forums
How Much to Sell For?
by TexasMom1 - 04/15/24 10:23 PM
Song lyrics have become simpler and more repetitive
by FrankCox - 04/15/24 07:42 PM
New bass strings sound tubby
by Emery Wang - 04/15/24 06:54 PM
Pianodisc PDS-128+ calibration
by Dalem01 - 04/15/24 04:50 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums43
Topics223,384
Posts3,349,159
Members111,630
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010

Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations |

Advertise on Piano World
| Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map


Copyright © VerticalScope Inc. All Rights Reserved.
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community.