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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
JoBert #2904044 10/24/19 11:39 AM
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So I tested a bit more, and have some more info.

First, a MIDI file won't help, as the noise doesn't trigger when MIDI is sent to the NV10 for playback. I tried a number of note-on and note-off velocities, and the sound output is always clean. The best I can do is a recording to give an idea of the velocity and duration required to trigger it (below).

When played directly on the NV-10, the sound triggers starting around MIDI velocity 48, and I can hear it up past velocity 100 as well.

Affected keys are A#5 to D#5 (keys 50 - 55 on the keyboard).

Pianist mode, Ballad Rendering. Pretty much default VT, Sound settings, and settings.

Damper off recording: https://soundcloud.com/user-653637026/nv10-audible-click/s-EPkNO
Simple 4-note chromatic scale, from C#5 to E5. The clicks immediately follow the release of each note (except for E5), most audibly on the first two runs (0:03 - 0:08). I don't hear the clicks in the last two runs.

Damper on recording: https://soundcloud.com/user-653637026/nv10-damper-click/s-aJaPe
Same chromatic scale. I can hear the clicks starting in the second run, for C#5 and D5 (0:07 - 0:09).

The click is audible through headphones and speakers, but is more noticeable through speakers.

I also tried again on 3-4 Sound Mode pianos, and there's no clicking in any of these either. So it's limited to Pianist Mode.

--

Oh, as an aside. while testing the MIDI input, I discovered that the NV10 does respond to differing Note-Off velocities when sent through MIDI smile I could definitely hear a longer and shorter decays with between 0-127. I couldn't really discern different note-off samples though, it sounds like the note just fades slower with lower note-off velocities. So ironically, there appear to be instances where a MIDI file contains techniques you can't reproduce directly on the NV-10!








Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
JoBert #2904068 10/24/19 12:42 PM
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Hi NV10 owners,

Some users find the sound lacking (also N1x owners) and prefer using external speakers (monitors with studio sub).
If adding only a sub to help till 150hz would that be an effective addition (so no monitors). I had this one in mind, the Adam Sub 7


This one (10") would maybe be beter, but its bigger for the living room and low pass goes to max 130hz...

Given that its best to have some space between the wall and the NV10, the Adam would fit there easy as being only 20cm. see below. This guy also seems to have something runnning there. not sure what....


[Linked Image]

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
atamgp #2904105 10/24/19 03:02 PM
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its from Osho smile Found the pic on google, its a "slim profile DAW PC" ")
See here.

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
Gombessa #2904145 10/24/19 04:49 PM
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Hi Gombessa, yes I have also noticed the exact same on my NV10. I just got the piano and it didn't bother me enough to post about it here but definitely some kind of artifact is there.

Regards, dohnjoy


-------------------
Erard, NV10
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
JoBert #2904152 10/24/19 05:01 PM
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I still can’t hear it. The ringing resonance is prominent, but no clicking.



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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
JoBert #2904180 10/24/19 06:40 PM
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Dohnjoy: thanks for confirming. I was pretty sure I'm not crazy, but glad to have some confirmation of that wink

Tom: Are you not hearing it on your own NV-10, or also not hearing it in the recordings I uploaded (or both)? Admittedly, it's one of those frustrating "louder in person than I can get on the microphone" issues. But when practicing in a quiet environment (my usual 5-6am piano time) it stands out quite a bit since it only happens on a few keys.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
Gombessa #2904183 10/24/19 06:47 PM
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I guess we should get Tyrone to listen to the recordings, since he has the most attuned and sensitive hearing... I played your recordings on my work speakers and on my phone and I'm struggling to convince myself that I can hear any clicks.

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
JoBert #2904184 10/24/19 06:51 PM
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It's not you navindra. It's frustratingly difficult to get the clicks recorded audibly (particularly since they're fairly prominent when playing). With earbuds, I have to turn them WAY up to hear them, and if there's any ambient noise outside I can't hear them either.

I think you need good earphones in order to hear the recordings (I put my phone into the earcups of my headphones to make the recording. With all the gear I have, as it turns out I don't have anything with a mic/line input that I can plug directly into the NV-10's headphone jack smirk


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
JoBert #2904185 10/24/19 07:02 PM
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Gom, I listened to your recordings and to my NV10. I guess I am so sensitive to the high resonance with headphones, that’s what I hear plus the mechanical key sound. I mostly use ballad when in pianist mode because the bass is nicer, (and because I am usually playing ballads). I don’t think I have ever heard clicking. Sorry, can’t help.



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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
JoBert #2904198 10/24/19 07:40 PM
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Gombessa, are you able to capture this sound using the USB audio recorder?

Kind regards,
James
x


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Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
Gombessa #2904204 10/24/19 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Gombessa

Tom: Are you not hearing it on your own NV-10, or also not hearing it in the recordings I uploaded (or both)? Admittedly, it's one of those frustrating "louder in person than I can get on the microphone" issues. But when practicing in a quiet environment (my usual 5-6am piano time) it stands out quite a bit since it only happens on a few keys.


I can hear it in the recordings. It's when you're letting off on the key.



Last edited by David B; 10/24/19 08:03 PM.

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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
Kawai James #2904205 10/24/19 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Gombessa, are you able to capture this sound using the USB audio recorder?

Kind regards,
James
x


Um...no.

Why not, you might ask?

Because I'm a fool blush

That was quite a facepalm moment.

I'll give that a shot next smile


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
JoBert #2904243 10/24/19 10:21 PM
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OK, I'm back.

The click DOES get recorded when output to USB. It's most audible from 0:07 to 0:14 here (mostly in the middle D note, it never clicks on the E5): https://soundcloud.com/user-653637026/nv10-click-sk-ex-recmp3/s-Twt4F

With earbuds or through computer speakers, it's hardly discernible, and comes across more like clipping than a click/tap. I think you need to use good headphones/speakers to hear it, and be playing at a volume similar to an acoustic grand.

So far:

1. I can hear it on multiple sets of headphones.
2. I can hear it over speakers (but much less prominent).
3. I cannot hear it when a note is sent via MIDI to the NV-10.
4. It's not a mechanical noise with the NV10, since it happens through the USB recording.
5. I can only hear it in Pianist Mode (loudest in Ballad rendering), not in any Sound Mode piano.
6. The sound appears to follow the release of the damper, not the key (hold the damper down, and the noise doesn't happen when you release the key, but when you release the damper after the key is struck).

It's not loud, but it's noticeable enough to be distracting when playing. It's the kind of sound you get when someone drops a pencil behind the fallboard and you can hear it rock when some keys are played. Any chance there was a pencil dropped into the SK-EX during the sampling session? smile


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
JoBert #2904263 10/25/19 12:28 AM
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I can hear it clearly even on my crappy in built speakers on my work imac! It's definitely a digital artifact or some kind. Hope they can get it sorted for you. Maybe someone can replicate a recording on another NV10 with the exact same settings? You could do a factory reset but if that fixes it it would then become virtually impossible to troubleshoot the bug if it can't be reproduced.

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
JoBert #2904276 10/25/19 01:47 AM
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I also hear it clearly on this latest recording, using my crappy phone speaker.
Especially clear for me to hear on the lowest note you play.


-------------------
Erard, NV10
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
JoBert #2904287 10/25/19 02:48 AM
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I can hear it clearly even on my iPhone speakers.


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Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
atamgp #2904350 10/25/19 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by atamgp
Hi NV10 owners,

Some users find the sound lacking (also N1x owners) and prefer using external speakers (monitors with studio sub).
If adding only a sub to help till 150hz would that be an effective addition (so no monitors). I had this one in mind, the Adam Sub 7


This one (10") would maybe be beter, but its bigger for the living room and low pass goes to max 130hz...

Given that its best to have some space between the wall and the NV10, the Adam would fit there easy as being only 20cm. see below. This guy also seems to have something runnning there. not sure what....




No one? cry

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
JoBert #2904396 10/25/19 08:19 AM
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I think I might be hearing something like a chirp. Hard to distinguish for me though. Did you try changing the settings or do a reset?



Kawai NV10
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
ˆTomLCˆ #2904490 10/25/19 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by TomLC
I think I might be hearing something like a chirp. Hard to distinguish for me though. Did you try changing the settings or do a reset?


I don't want to hard reset yet until I have a better grasp of this (if it's just me, a few others, a lot others, etc.).

I've tweaked most sound settings and VT settings to see if it makes a difference, and nothing eliminates the noise.

I have found a couple of interesting things while poking around, though:

1. The noise happens if you have Touch Curve Off, so for reproducibility that simplifies things a bit (you don't need to worry about hitting the key with the right velocity).

2. Sound Mode handles note-off very differently than Pianist mode! In Sound Mode, a faster note-off results in a louder fallback noise. Pianist Mode doesn't modify the fallback noise depending on note-off velocity. I thought that was an interesting change.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On
atamgp #2904513 10/25/19 12:44 PM
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Quote


No one? cry


Please ignore my question, found an existing thread to focus more on the subject.

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