|
Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments. Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers
(it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!
|
|
65 members (BWV846, Anglagard44, clothearednincompo, brdwyguy, amc252, Bellyman, 16 invisible),
2,249
guests, and
382
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 72
Full Member
|
OP
Full Member
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 72 |
Henle Verlag doesn't (generally) seem to assign difficulty levels to every movement of a given sonata. I know that there are exceptions but couldn't find the answer to my question.
My question: What is your best guess at a Henle Verlag-esque difficulty rating for the first (allegro moderato) movement of Schubert's Sonata in F sharp minor D571 (Fragment)?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 3,046
3000 Post Club Member
|
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 3,046 |
Cunningham Studio grand; Yamaha CLP-645 Clavinova
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 36,805
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
|
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 36,805 |
If you are asking because you have an interest in playing this piece, I think the best way to tell is by trying a small segment. The passage work is so similar throughout the piece that you only have to see how easy or difficult a small part of it is for you.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 72
Full Member
|
OP
Full Member
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 72 |
Doesn't the 7 rating apply to all movements---not just the first? I looked at this prior to posting. Perhaps I misunderstood.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 3,046
3000 Post Club Member
|
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 3,046 |
I'm assuming the level is seen as an overall rating for the entirety of the piece. I would think that someone who plays pieces at this level would be fine with this piece. If you're below it, then it would be a challenge. If you're far below it, then you might want to pass.
Cunningham Studio grand; Yamaha CLP-645 Clavinova
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 72
Full Member
|
OP
Full Member
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 72 |
I'm assuming the level is seen as an overall rating for the entirety of the piece. I would think that someone who plays pieces at this level would be fine with this piece. If you're below it, then it would be a challenge. If you're far below it, then you might want to pass. Thanks. I'm definitely not at level 7. I was wondering if this sonata might be graded a bit like Moonlight Sonata---where the first movement is markedly less technically demanding than those that follow. Maybe not the best example for obvious reasons but I think the point is clear enough. I think the overall difficulty rating from Henle Verlag for all of Moonlight is 7 or so---but the first movement is graded as a 4. Just wondering how much simpler (if indeed at all) the first movement of the Schubert work might be in the opinion of PW cognoscenti. If overall it is a 7---is the first movement markedly less demanding?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 5,067
5000 Post Club Member
|
5000 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 5,067 |
As a point of comparison, this piece will be significantly more difficult than the Fur Elise and also a good notch more difficult than the first movement of moonlight sonata. If you want to play it, give it a try over some short parts and see how it works for you.
Blüthner model 6
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 3,808
3000 Post Club Member
|
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 3,808 |
There are certainly easier and harder movements in various sonatas. I don't know this one personally, but it seems moderately difficult. It is in F#min, there are L hand arpeggio's throughout, and some sections have two R hand voices. It's probably moderate in difficulty; if I had to guess, Henle 5-6 (Henle's system is more difficult than RCM, where it might be a 7-8 or even 9). Just my guess.
Steinway A3 Boston 118 PE YouTubeWorking OnChopin Nocturne E min Bach Inventions "You Can Never Have Too Many Dream Pianos" -Thad Carhart
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 72
Full Member
|
OP
Full Member
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 72 |
There are certainly easier and harder movements in various sonatas. I don't know this one personally, but it seems moderately difficult. It is in F#min, there are L hand arpeggio's throughout, and some sections have two R hand voices. It's probably moderate in difficulty; if I had to guess, Henle 5-6 (Henle's system is more difficult than RCM, where it might be a 7-8 or even 9). Just my guess. Thanks. I probably shouldn't wade back into 5 or above territory again for awhile. My last attempt left an impression!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 72
Full Member
|
OP
Full Member
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 72 |
As a point of comparison, this piece will be significantly more difficult than the Fur Elise and also a good notch more difficult than the first movement of moonlight sonata. If you want to play it, give it a try over some short parts and see how it works for you. Thanks. I may try a passage out of curiosity but it may (very very likely) be too much of a stretch to commit the time beeded to play it at this stage.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 3,046
3000 Post Club Member
|
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 3,046 |
Just wondering how much simpler (if indeed at all) the first movement of the Schubert work might be in the opinion of PW cognoscenti. If overall it is a 7---is the first movement markedly less demanding?
I don't know. I do know that, in my personal experience with his pieces thus far, Schubert didn't write anything easy, lol.
Cunningham Studio grand; Yamaha CLP-645 Clavinova
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 72
Full Member
|
OP
Full Member
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 72 |
Just wondering how much simpler (if indeed at all) the first movement of the Schubert work might be in the opinion of PW cognoscenti. If overall it is a 7---is the first movement markedly less demanding?
I don't know. I do know that, in my personal experience with his pieces thus far, Schubert didn't write anything easy, lol. Haha. It does seem that anything I actually want to learn is more difficult than I'd prefer.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,824
9000 Post Club Member
|
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,824 |
Haha. It does seem that anything I actually want to learn is more difficult than I'd prefer. I've been learning for 20+ months and I expect that what you said to be true for me for a few more years.
across the stone, deathless piano performances "Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano "Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person "Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 3,046
3000 Post Club Member
|
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 3,046 |
Just wondering how much simpler (if indeed at all) the first movement of the Schubert work might be in the opinion of PW cognoscenti. If overall it is a 7---is the first movement markedly less demanding?
I don't know. I do know that, in my personal experience with his pieces thus far, Schubert didn't write anything easy, lol. Haha. It does seem that anything I actually want to learn is more difficult than I'd prefer. That's pretty much where I am, as well. 😂 I discussed his one musical moment wih my teacher, and we quickly pushed it to the back of the bus, lol.
Cunningham Studio grand; Yamaha CLP-645 Clavinova
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 17,276
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
|
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 17,276 |
I'd say it's ABRSM grade 7, or RCM grade 9.
What that is in Henle's very hit-and-miss grading is anyone's guess. (Henle's is very, very inconsistent, and I personally wouldn't take it at face value even with a barrelful of salt).
If music be the food of love, play on!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 3,046
3000 Post Club Member
|
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 3,046 |
Jane Mcgrath's book is much more consistant, but it only goes to beginner advanced repertoire. I don't like Henle much either.
Cunningham Studio grand; Yamaha CLP-645 Clavinova
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 36,805
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
|
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 36,805 |
Just wondering how much simpler (if indeed at all) the first movement of the Schubert work might be in the opinion of PW cognoscenti. If overall it is a 7---is the first movement markedly less demanding?
I don't know. I do know that, in my personal experience with his pieces thus far, Schubert didn't write anything easy, lol. Schubert wrote many sets of very short pieces called Landler, Waltzes, and German Dances. Most of these are much easier than the sonata movement in question or Schubert's more popular works. For example: http://waltercosand.com/CosandScores/Composers%20Q-Z/Schubert,%20Franz/Laendler/17_L%c3%a4ndler__D.366.pdf
Last edited by pianoloverus; 10/22/19 09:21 PM.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 3,046
3000 Post Club Member
|
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 3,046 |
True. I still don't find them easy, LOL. More difficult than the Chopin I've played, anyway.
Cunningham Studio grand; Yamaha CLP-645 Clavinova
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 26,909
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
|
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 26,909 |
If you can't find a "professional" rating of the difficulty of the movement in question (with which one may or may not agree), why not just sit down at the piano with it for a while and find out whether it is - or will reasonably be - within your grasp?
Regards,
BruceD - - - - - Estonia 190
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 72
Full Member
|
OP
Full Member
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 72 |
If you can't find a "professional" rating of the difficulty of the movement in question (with which one may or may not agree), why not just sit down at the piano with it for a while and find out whether it is - or will reasonably be - within your grasp?
Regards, It's a simple matter of not wanting to spend money on sheet music if it's advanced to the point I couldn't have success with it in the next 12 months or so.
|
|
|
Forums43
Topics223,403
Posts3,349,419
Members111,636
|
Most Online15,252 Mar 21st, 2010
|
|
|
|
|
|