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Headphone impedance? #2902999
10/22/19 06:31 AM
10/22/19 06:31 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 64
Glasgow, Scotland
C
CoJac Offline OP
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CoJac  Offline OP
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Glasgow, Scotland
Hi,

I'm getting my new DP delivered on friday and still trying to decide on some headphones. In the piano shop I tried the AKG k175. They have an impedance of 32 ohms and worked great, but I dont like on ear and closed. Other models I'm looking at have an impedance of 50 ohm which I imagine would be fine too, but I'm wondering at what point do you need to introduce an amp? Would 80 ohms still be ok?

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Re: Headphone impedance? [Re: CoJac] #2903009
10/22/19 07:19 AM
10/22/19 07:19 AM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 648
Celestis
Granyala Offline
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Celestis
You need an amp when the volume is too low to your taste.

I can drive 250Ω on my smartphone. Doesn't get very loud though. laugh

My guess: anything below 100Ω should be okay for a DP output.


The backbone of modern industrial society is, and for the foreseeable future will be, the use of electrical Power.
VPC 1 -> Pianoteq 6 Std | Garritan CFX / Pearl Alto Flute 201
Re: Headphone impedance? [Re: CoJac] #2903026
10/22/19 08:53 AM
10/22/19 08:53 AM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,474
Cheshire, United Kingdom
Doug M. Offline
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Originally Posted by CoJac
Hi,

I'm getting my new DP delivered on friday and still trying to decide on some headphones. In the piano shop I tried the AKG k175. They have an impedance of 32 ohms and worked great, but I dont like on ear and closed. Other models I'm looking at have an impedance of 50 ohm which I imagine would be fine too, but I'm wondering at what point do you need to introduce an amp? Would 80 ohms still be ok?


Hi CoJac,

Unless you contact the manufacturer and ask (or if the information is in the manual), you'll never know.
I asked Kawai about my MP7 and they told me that the headphone outputs do vary between models and that I'd need an amp to run 300 ohm headphones.
I'd email the manufacturer's support email address.

Kind regards,

Doug


Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7; Past - Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Re: Headphone impedance? [Re: CoJac] #2903063
10/22/19 10:04 AM
10/22/19 10:04 AM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,548
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newer player Online content
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Higher impedance headphones will work. But if impedance is too high and/or efficiency too low for the headphone amp, you might find some weak bass frequencies, generally low volume, etc.

Typical headphone amps in modern consumer electronics tend to be designed for lower impedance headphones but that is not always the case. I would generally look for low impedance, high efficiency headphones in your case but the marketing specs are always suspect. There are a few popular inexpensive headphone on so search the PW forums.

Best option always is to try before you buy.

Re: Headphone impedance? [Re: CoJac] #2903107
10/22/19 12:28 PM
10/22/19 12:28 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 6,463
Vught, The Netherlands
Dave Horne Offline
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Dave Horne  Offline
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Vught, The Netherlands
Whenever there's a discussion and headphone amplifiers pop up I always pass on what I bought.

Instead of buying a one trick pony, a headphone amplifier, I bought a four channel handheld mixer. I think I paid €100 or so, you can spend less and still have a name brand.

I now run the output of a tablet that resides on my music stand to that mixer and the output of that mixer goes to the AUX IN of the N3. I plug my headphones into the headphone jack of the N3 and now have more control over the volume of the tablet. My issue was with a low output of some videos on the tablet.

If my issue were that of a low headphone output to begin with, I would have sent the output of the piano to the mixer and plugged the headphones into the mixer.

I now have a handy little mixer that can be used for more than one purpose.


website | mp3 files | Yamaha AvantGrand N3 | Roland RD 2000 | Sennheiser HD 598 headphones
Re: Headphone impedance? [Re: CoJac] #2904172
10/24/19 06:08 PM
10/24/19 06:08 PM
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 6
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AndyOnThePiano Offline
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My Kawai MP5 drives my Beyer Dynamic DT880's just fine and they're 600 ohm.

They don't get silly loud mind you.

Re: Headphone impedance? [Re: CoJac] #2904207
10/24/19 08:04 PM
10/24/19 08:04 PM
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 118
Newfoundland, Canada
camperbc Online content

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camperbc  Online Content

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Newfoundland, Canada
CoJac, I have just begun using a pair of lovely Sennheiser HD-598's (over ear/open back) with my just-delivered Casio. They are rated at 50 ohms and sound incredible, and with plenty of volume. And I am doubtful that a more ridiculously-comfy pair of headphones exists anywhere in the universe... in fact I often forget that I have them on! Here's a pic of 'em:
[Linked Image]

Last edited by camperbc; 10/24/19 08:09 PM.
Re: Headphone impedance? [Re: CoJac] #2904234
10/24/19 09:41 PM
10/24/19 09:41 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 5,121
Richmond, BC, Canada
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Charles Cohen Offline
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Joined: Dec 2012
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Richmond, BC, Canada
Originally Posted by CoJac
Hi,

I'm getting my new DP delivered on friday and still trying to decide on some headphones. In the piano shop I tried the AKG k175. They have an impedance of 32 ohms and worked great, but I dont like on ear and closed. Other models I'm looking at have an impedance of 50 ohm which I imagine would be fine too, but I'm wondering at what point do you need to introduce an amp? Would 80 ohms still be ok?


My AKG K240 Studio phones are 55 Ohms;

My Senn HD280 Pro phones are 64 ohms:

. . . The Senn HD280's are substantially louder than the AKG K240's.

In fact, the K240's need more power than some low-end DP's can deliver to their "Phone" jacks, for satisfying volume.

There are considerations of headphone _efficiency_ -- and it's tricky (and sometimes impossible) to figure out whether you'll need an amp. No efficiency ratings on the headphones, no "maximum output voltage" or "output impedance" rating on the DP headphone socket.


. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / EV ZXA1 speaker
Re: Headphone impedance? [Re: CoJac] #2904324
10/25/19 04:55 AM
10/25/19 04:55 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,723
Raleigh, North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline
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MacMacMac  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2009
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Charles, the efficiency for many headphone models is given in the specs in the form of milliwatts required for a specified dB volume.
But without knowing the amplifier's output impedance (and without a bit of additional knowledge) then ... you're right. It's tricky.

Re: Headphone impedance? [Re: CoJac] #2904339
10/25/19 05:58 AM
10/25/19 05:58 AM
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 13
London UK
Tmax100 Offline
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Tmax100  Offline
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London UK
I've got a P515 and my 50ohm Sen HD598 are OK - volume I'd wanted a little more

I then got some DT880 32 ohm - these the P515 will drive OK also, but I still wasn't satisfied

I then got a SMSL SAPII TPA6120A2 headphone amp - AND WOW!!!! the difference is huge, well ....maybe BIG !!!!

It is so much more comfortable with the extra headroom, and the sound somehow just sounds bigger (soundstage, not just louder)

I've used velcro to attached under the Yamaha

[Linked Image]


Yamaha P-515
Previous: Yamaha CLP-155 || AUGUST FÖRSTER 116E
Re: Headphone impedance? [Re: CoJac] #2904364
10/25/19 07:35 AM
10/25/19 07:35 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 64
Glasgow, Scotland
C
CoJac Offline OP
Full Member
CoJac  Offline OP
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 64
Glasgow, Scotland
Thanks everyone for the info. The AKG K240 were probably top of my list but now I'm not so sure! I was also interested in the Sennheiser HD559 but I've read mixed reviews. Some say sound is quite muddy in the bass and weak mid range. But then others say there's not much between them and the rest of that range (579, 599). Really tough choice and that's my piano just been delivered today so need to pick something soon!!

Re: Headphone impedance? [Re: CoJac] #2904374
10/25/19 07:48 AM
10/25/19 07:48 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,723
Raleigh, North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline
9000 Post Club Member
MacMacMac  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,723
Raleigh, North Carolina
I'd be loathe to take any notice of what "some say" or what "others say". The only important thing is what "you say".
I have the 579. I like 'em. But why should you care about what I like????

So ... whichever ones you're interested in ... just try 'em at the shops.
Like 'em? Buy 'em!
Dislike 'em? Move on the next ones.
Originally Posted by CoJac
I was also interested in the Sennheiser HD559 but I've read mixed reviews. Some say sound is quite muddy in the bass and weak mid range. But then others say there's not much between them and the rest of that range (579, 599). Really tough choice and that's my piano just been delivered today so need to pick something soon!!
And don't be in a hurry to buy phones just because the piano is here. You'll live with the phones for a long time, so it's more important to choose correctly than to choose quickly.

Caveat: Some online retailers accept returns with no questions asked, and sometimes with free return shipping.
If so, buy anything and just try 'em.
Like 'em? Keep 'em!
Dislike 'em? Return 'em and move on the next ones.

Re: Headphone impedance? [Re: CoJac] #2904388
10/25/19 08:13 AM
10/25/19 08:13 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 64
Glasgow, Scotland
C
CoJac Offline OP
Full Member
CoJac  Offline OP
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 64
Glasgow, Scotland
I've checked loads of stores and cant find anywhere to try them. Also don't know of any online stores with free returns including shipping! Also most I've found has to he returned unopened. I've currently got really cheap and nasty ones so I'm sure whatever I buy will be a huge improvement!

Re: Headphone impedance? [Re: Tmax100] #2904393
10/25/19 08:17 AM
10/25/19 08:17 AM
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 6
A
AndyOnThePiano Offline
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Posts: 6
Originally Posted by Tmax100
I've got a P515 and my 50ohm Sen HD598 are OK - volume I'd wanted a little more

I then got some DT880 32 ohm - these the P515 will drive OK also, but I still wasn't satisfied

I then got a SMSL SAPII TPA6120A2 headphone amp - AND WOW!!!! the difference is huge, well ....maybe BIG !!!!

It is so much more comfortable with the extra headroom, and the sound somehow just sounds bigger (soundstage, not just louder)

I've used velcro to attached under the Yamaha

[Linked Image]



That looks great.

I have a homemade valve (or tube if you're in the US) headphone amp that I built from scratch using plans on the net, and it makes a huge difference to my DT 880s. I don't use it on my DP but I now feel obliged to plug it in to try it !

If anybody's interested it's a 'Starving Student rev 1' design.

Re: Headphone impedance? [Re: CoJac] #2904456
10/25/19 10:13 AM
10/25/19 10:13 AM
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 13
London UK
Tmax100 Offline
Junior Member
Tmax100  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 13
London UK
Andy

The DT 880s are lovely headphones and also very comfy around ears

That SS valve amp looks awesome - let us know how much of a difference there is to the sound quality - not just that it goes louder with and without


Yamaha P-515
Previous: Yamaha CLP-155 || AUGUST FÖRSTER 116E
Re: Headphone impedance? [Re: CoJac] #2904461
10/25/19 10:21 AM
10/25/19 10:21 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,723
Raleigh, North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline
9000 Post Club Member
MacMacMac  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,723
Raleigh, North Carolina
I didn't have to look very far at all to find such a retailer ...
Originally Posted by CoJac
I've checked loads of stores and cant find anywhere to try them. Also don't know of any online stores with free returns including shipping! Also most I've found has to he returned unopened. I've currently got really cheap and nasty ones so I'm sure whatever I buy will be a huge improvement!
In fact, I didn't even look! I bought Sennheiser 555's about 10 years ago. I gave no thought to the possibility of returning them.

Anyway ... I returned them ... no questions asked, return shipping prepaid. That was Amazon. I've had the same experience with B&H Photo in New York.

As for retailers in Glasgow, or shipping to Glasgow ... I cannot say.

Re: Headphone impedance? [Re: Tmax100] #2904498
10/25/19 11:50 AM
10/25/19 11:50 AM
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 6
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AndyOnThePiano Offline
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Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 6
Originally Posted by Tmax100
Andy

The DT 880s are lovely headphones and also very comfy around ears

That SS valve amp looks awesome - let us know how much of a difference there is to the sound quality - not just that it goes louder with and without


It's not really much louder, just a much fuller sound, more detailed etc. Apparently because they're high impedance they need quite a high voltage to drive them and the valve amp does that better than transistors. It's meant to be common practice to drive them from the loudspeaker terminals of a regular power amp, but I've never been brave enough to try that.



Cojack,

Sorry to hijack this thread.

You can return items to Amazon, but you'll probably end up paying shipping (which is only fair really). In reality all the headphones you've mentioned are very good and I honestly don't think that you'll have any problems with any of them. A lot of what you read online is really, really an@l stuff about the most insignificant minutia of details (try the HeadFi forum if you really want to expose yourself to it, but don't blame me when you run away screaming....).

In summary, Beyer Dynamics are probably the most neutral of the bunch and the DT880's are more open than the 770's or 990's in terms of soundstage etc. The Senn's are generally thought of as being slightly more 'polite', but the 555's, 598's are still superb headphones'. Grados tend to be more forward (i.e. a little brash, but great for rock and guitars) and some people find them uncomfortable and bit geeky looking. I don't know AKG well enough to comment, but have always fancied a pair of 701's.

None of the above is meant as criticism, it's all just down to personal taste.You won't be disappointed with any of them. Buy a lower impedance ie. 80 ohms or less and they should be okay on the DP. The higher ones are meant to be slightly more dynamic as the voice coils are a bit lighter (but then again....).

Buy a closed back version if there's people around who'll be disturbed by listening to what you're playing !

If you do want a recommendation, then I strongly recommend the DT880's. I'm sure everybody else who's posted will say the same about their own headphones, which again, isn't criticism, it's just that they are all really good.

Re: Headphone impedance? [Re: CoJac] #2904501
10/25/19 11:52 AM
10/25/19 11:52 AM
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 6
A
AndyOnThePiano Offline
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Joined: Sep 2018
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Just don't buy Beats..... (really, don't).

Re: Headphone impedance? [Re: AndyOnThePiano] #2904516
10/25/19 12:52 PM
10/25/19 12:52 PM
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 118
Newfoundland, Canada
camperbc Online content

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camperbc  Online Content

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Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 118
Newfoundland, Canada
Originally Posted by AndyOnThePiano
Just don't buy Beats..... (really, don't).


Agreed. By far, these are the worst headphones I've ever listened to. But with their ridiculously exaggerated bass, kids love 'em!

Re: Headphone impedance? [Re: Tmax100] #2904520
10/25/19 01:06 PM
10/25/19 01:06 PM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 648
Celestis
Granyala Offline
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Granyala  Offline
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Celestis
Originally Posted by Tmax100
Andy
The DT 880s are lovely headphones and also very comfy around ears

Absolutely, I can wear my DT-880 all day and forget it's even there.


The backbone of modern industrial society is, and for the foreseeable future will be, the use of electrical Power.
VPC 1 -> Pianoteq 6 Std | Garritan CFX / Pearl Alto Flute 201
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