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Re: From digital to real strings piano
ng80092a #2902257 10/20/19 08:59 AM
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Because most modern digital piano samples are in stereo, the number of notes of actual polyphony you get in reality is half the amount of the listed specification. At least, that was my recollection back when buying earlier digital pianos.


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Re: From digital to real strings piano
ng80092a #2902258 10/20/19 09:01 AM
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As someone who grew up playing only acoustic pianos, I was reminded frequently by my piano teacher and mother not to overuse the sustain pedal. The piano, on which I learned, was an upright that was a nice instrument but it didn’t have much sustain without the sustain pedal. I had to concentrate to not fall back on just laying on the pedal throughout the piece.
One of the things I absolutely love about my C3 is it has great natural sustain that even my piano technician commented on. This piano reminds me I don’t need to lay on the sustain pedal. I don’t remember the polyphony of my Casio, but my sustain pedal just does the job but isn’t something I want to use constantly.

I don’t know if our OP is going to get an acoustic or just might play an acoustic piano on occasion. In either case, it could be very helpful to master proper pedaling technique. I found this thread fascinating because I never noticed that I could pedal differently on my Casio Privia than I do on my C3. I’m also enjoying learning the difference on how sustain is accomplished on digitals vs acoustic pianos. I’m glad ng80092a posted this question.


J & J
Estonia L190 Hidden Beauty
Casio Privia PX-330
I don’t play well but I play far better than I sing.
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Re: From digital to real strings piano
ng80092a #2902265 10/20/19 09:33 AM
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I just measured (by ear and stopwatch) my Casio Privia has about a little over half the sustain of my C3. So in fact, pedaling mistakes would be far easier to miss. I never really noticed. One of the things I did notice from the first day on my Casio was it seemed easier to sound good than on my acoustic. Hmmm. So maybe for the Christmas holidays I should always practice on the C3 but when people come over and we sing carols, I should drag out the Casio.
Or maybe just straighten up my sloppiness and be a star on either piano or any piano put in front of me. laugh


J & J
Estonia L190 Hidden Beauty
Casio Privia PX-330
I don’t play well but I play far better than I sing.
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Re: From digital to real strings piano
ng80092a #2902267 10/20/19 09:37 AM
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A very easy to understand instructional piano book is
Pedal preludes... a series of lyrical exercises that demonstrate different pedaling techniques. Unfortunately the imslp.com is only in Russian but there are English translations available to purchase.

I really am an acoustical pianist so I can’t vouch for the book in terms of digital pedal technique.


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
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Re: From digital to real strings piano
ng80092a #2902275 10/20/19 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by j&j
I just measured (by ear and stopwatch) my Casio Privia has about a little over half the sustain of my C3. So in fact, pedaling mistakes would be far easier to miss. I never really noticed. One of the things I did notice from the first day on my Casio was it seemed easier to sound good than on my acoustic. Hmmm. So maybe for the Christmas holidays I should always practice on the C3 but when people come over and we sing carols, I should drag out the Casio.
Or maybe just straighten up my sloppiness and be a star on either piano or any piano put in front of me. laugh


I wonder why it's so hard for manufacturers to have a good long sustain in their digital piano's?

What's the problem?

Re: From digital to real strings piano
U3piano #2902277 10/20/19 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by U3piano

I wonder why it's so hard for manufacturers to have a good long sustain in their digital piano's?

What's the problem?


Sustain is easy on any electronic instrument - just switch to the "organ" mode and you have indefinite sustain smirk .

The problem is that just turning down the volume (fading it down, like a DJ for pop songs, because he never wants you to hear the ending of any song) doesn't cut it in terms of realism for vibrating piano strings dying away.....(listen to a fff chord dying away on an acoustic, and you'll know it's nothing like a volume control being turned down)

Which is where modelling comes in. And why sampled digitals struggle and resort to all sorts of tricks like 'looping' the sampled sounds.


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: From digital to real strings piano
U3piano #2902282 10/20/19 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by U3piano
I wonder why it's so hard for manufacturers to have a good long sustain in their digital piano's?

This is not a problem for some software pianos, for example Pianoteq. You can set sustain to be very long - longer than on a real acoustic.


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Re: From digital to real strings piano
Tyrone Slothrop #2902323 10/20/19 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by U3piano
I wonder why it's so hard for manufacturers to have a good long sustain in their digital piano's?

This is not a problem for some software pianos, for example Pianoteq. You can set sustain to be very long - longer than on a real acoustic.

Oh oh... do I read a potential hijack? wink

Last edited by Jethro; 10/20/19 12:03 PM.

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Bach/Busoni Chaconne in D minor BWV 1004
Preludio: Bach/Rachmaninoff E Major Sonata for Violin
Chopin: G Minor Ballade


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Kawai VPC-1
Re: From digital to real strings piano
Tyrone Slothrop #2902350 10/20/19 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by U3piano
I wonder why it's so hard for manufacturers to have a good long sustain in their digital piano's?

This is not a problem for some software pianos, for example Pianoteq. You can set sustain to be very long - longer than on a real acoustic.


There is the basic difference between digital and software pianos versus acoustics. A DP has a whole host of settings to make major changes to the sound, the pitch, the sustain and the overall volume. You can set up backup instruments. An acoustic piano is WYSIWYG. The player does all the expression, tonal character with their hands and feet.

Just for me I practice on both but spend more time on the acoustic.


J & J
Estonia L190 Hidden Beauty
Casio Privia PX-330
I don’t play well but I play far better than I sing.
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Re: From digital to real strings piano
U3piano #2902981 10/22/19 05:11 AM
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Originally Posted by U3piano
Originally Posted by j&j
I just measured (by ear and stopwatch) my Casio Privia has about a little over half the sustain of my C3. So in fact, pedaling mistakes would be far easier to miss. I never really noticed. One of the things I did notice from the first day on my Casio was it seemed easier to sound good than on my acoustic. Hmmm. So maybe for the Christmas holidays I should always practice on the C3 but when people come over and we sing carols, I should drag out the Casio.
Or maybe just straighten up my sloppiness and be a star on either piano or any piano put in front of me. laugh


I wonder why it's so hard for manufacturers to have a good long sustain in their digital piano's?

What's the problem?


In my experience - you get an ACOUSTIC piano and play it "as it comes". You learn to play from pp to ff. And the sustain pedal(s) work by ... sustaining.

But many Digital Pianos arrive home, and the volume it turned to ½ - or if a spouse, mother or invalid grandmother is present - maybe even to ¼ volume. And at those levels, the sustain pedal just doesn't work as effectively as on an acoustic. I've had it with pupils who have difficulty adapting to an acoustic piano at lessons till they "lose" the volume control.


Alan from Queensland, Australia (and Clara - my Grotrian Concert & Allen Organ (CF-17a)).
Re: From digital to real strings piano
U3piano #2903326 10/22/19 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by U3piano

I wonder why it's so hard for manufacturers to have a good long sustain in their digital piano's?

What's the problem?



Traditionally, it's storage space and polyphony (which translates into computing resources and cost). An fff bass note on an acoustic can ring out for something like 2 minutes, right? Sampling that fully takes up a lot more storage. And playing it back at full length eats into the number of sounds that can be played at once (since it has to continue to ring out as new notes are being played). So manufacturers employ tricks such as looping shorter samples over and over, or artificially shortening sustains so that they don't have to loop (as much). In either case it means a less realistic experience.

The resource issue is a bit less of a problem in newer DPs, and samples are getting quite a bit longer (or are modeled as others have mentioned, which doesn't take up space). So digitals are seeing a lot of progress on this front today, and mid-to-high end DPs nowadays have pretty long sustains. It's likely that sustain/decay length won't be an issue even for budget DPs within 5-10 years.


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