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Liszt is Awesome #2901611
10/18/19 11:28 AM
10/18/19 11:28 AM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 554
New York
didyougethathing Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
didyougethathing  Offline OP
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 554
New York
I was just listening to Reminiscences de Norma, and there is a full on ii-V-I using straight up jazz voicings. It's Emin9 / A7(13) / Dmaj9. That's pretty cool!!! Check out around 7:16-7:24 in the below video. Just wanted to share this as I just noticed it and it's awesome to see this kind of stuff in 19th century music. Usually when there is something "jazzy" it's one chord snuck in, but this is a true ii-V-I.


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Re: Liszt is Awesome [Re: didyougethathing] #2901719
10/18/19 02:29 PM
10/18/19 02:29 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 102
The Woodlands, TX
A
achoo42 Offline
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achoo42  Offline
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Posts: 102
The Woodlands, TX
Not sure if that harmonic progression comes directly from the opera or not, but yes Liszt was very advanced harmonically. He pretty much started Impressionism.

Listen to this Schumann piece and see if you catch any weird harmonies and progressions:



Schumann is the mann.
Re: Liszt is Awesome [Re: didyougethathing] #2901742
10/18/19 03:30 PM
10/18/19 03:30 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 122
R
Rania Offline
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Rania  Offline
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Beautiful moment! And nice catch:) Thank you for sharing. It reminded me of the vi-ii-V-I in the slow theme of his B minor sonata. Although the voicing is not as pronounced because of the moving notes and because the 9th in the ii and V resolves upward. (12:28, and then again at 27:03 in B major).

(And for some reason, in my head the third beat of the bar with the dominant (tenor voice) was a G double sharp (augmented 5th) instead of a G, which would make it much more "jazzy":))


Re: Liszt is Awesome [Re: achoo42] #2901761
10/18/19 04:10 PM
10/18/19 04:10 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 554
New York
didyougethathing Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
didyougethathing  Offline OP
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 554
New York
@achoo42 - 4:47-4:55 is awesome! Heard this piece many times but this just stuck out upon a relisten.

@Rania - Definitely, such a beautiful moment. See also 15:40 - 15:52, probably my favorite moment in the piece.

Also, the Spanish Rhapsody starts with a min7 chord i believe.

Like I said though, the Norma progression is sooooo jazzy, each of those chords is an extended one and there's three in a row, very rare for the time!

Last edited by didyougethathing; 10/18/19 04:10 PM.
Re: Liszt is Awesome [Re: didyougethathing] #2901765
10/18/19 04:17 PM
10/18/19 04:17 PM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 66
London
AAC127 Offline
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AAC127  Offline
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Posts: 66
London
I love the incredible diversity of character Liszt's compositions have. E.g.:
The diabolic/satanic:

The angelic/divine:

The lover/romantic:

The "fun", virtuosic, light hearted:

The morbid:

The impressionist, visionary:


Ok... I'll stop now, I think you get the point grin But in my opinion, no other piano composer was a match for Liszt's musical juggernaut.

Re: Liszt is Awesome [Re: didyougethathing] #2901777
10/18/19 04:34 PM
10/18/19 04:34 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 242
Maryland, USA
S
scriabinfanatic Offline
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scriabinfanatic  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 242
Maryland, USA
Originally Posted by didyougethathing
I was just listening to Reminiscences de Norma, and there is a full on ii-V-I using straight up jazz voicings. It's Emin9 / A7(13) / Dmaj9. That's pretty cool!!! Check out around 7:16-7:24 in the below video. Just wanted to share this as I just noticed it and it's awesome to see this kind of stuff in 19th century music. Usually when there is something "jazzy" it's one chord snuck in, but this is a true ii-V-I.



That's really cool -- it is like a progression straight out of jazz.

John Mehegan's landmark Jazz book series attributes the first appearance of a specific rootless voicing of ii-V-I progression used by modern jazz pianists to Chopin, where the two chord includes a minor ninth, the five chord has 9 and 13, and the one chord has added six and nine. Unfortunately he doesn't back that statement up with any specific examples, other than to say that it "became one of the vernacular sounds of the Nineteenth-Century piano concerto." I would have liked to have seen a nice example like the Liszt example you just pointed out.

Re: Liszt is Awesome [Re: scriabinfanatic] #2901779
10/18/19 04:43 PM
10/18/19 04:43 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 554
New York
didyougethathing Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
didyougethathing  Offline OP
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 554
New York
Originally Posted by scriabinfanatic
Originally Posted by didyougethathing
I was just listening to Reminiscences de Norma, and there is a full on ii-V-I using straight up jazz voicings. It's Emin9 / A7(13) / Dmaj9. That's pretty cool!!! Check out around 7:16-7:24 in the below video. Just wanted to share this as I just noticed it and it's awesome to see this kind of stuff in 19th century music. Usually when there is something "jazzy" it's one chord snuck in, but this is a true ii-V-I.



That's really cool -- it is like a progression straight out of jazz.

John Mehegan's landmark Jazz book series attributes the first appearance of a specific rootless voicing of ii-V-I progression used by modern jazz pianists to Chopin, where the two chord includes a minor ninth, the five chord has 9 and 13, and the one chord has added six and nine. Unfortunately he doesn't back that statement up with any specific examples, other than to say that it "became one of the vernacular sounds of the Nineteenth-Century piano concerto." I would have liked to have seen a nice example like the Liszt example you just pointed out.




That's really interesting! Yeah I wish he gave the example, but I guess i'll keep an ear out for something that sounds like that.

Re: Liszt is Awesome [Re: didyougethathing] #2901851
10/18/19 07:38 PM
10/18/19 07:38 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 102
The Woodlands, TX
A
achoo42 Offline
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achoo42  Offline
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A

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 102
The Woodlands, TX
Originally Posted by didyougethathing
@achoo42 - 4:47-4:55 is awesome! Heard this piece many times but this just stuck out upon a relisten.

@Rania - Definitely, such a beautiful moment. See also 15:40 - 15:52, probably my favorite moment in the piece.

Also, the Spanish Rhapsody starts with a min7 chord i believe.

Like I said though, the Norma progression is sooooo jazzy, each of those chords is an extended one and there's three in a row, very rare for the time!




Liszt has a lot of fun with tonality in this piece.


Schumann is the mann.
Re: Liszt is Awesome [Re: AAC127] #2901957
10/19/19 07:47 AM
10/19/19 07:47 AM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 3,136
In the Ozarks of Missouri
NobleHouse Online content
3000 Post Club Member
NobleHouse  Online Content
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 3,136
In the Ozarks of Missouri
Originally Posted by AAC127
I love the incredible diversity of character Liszt's compositions have. E.g.:
The diabolic/satanic:

The angelic/divine:

The lover/romantic:

The "fun", virtuosic, light hearted:

The morbid:

The impressionist, visionary:


Ok... I'll stop now, I think you get the point grin But in my opinion, no other piano composer was a match for Liszt's musical juggernaut.



+1. Liszt is my favorite, by far!


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