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Petrof or Schimmel?
#2898761 10/09/19 08:37 PM
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Hello,

My son is an advanced student, and he has overgrown his digital Roland HP-605.
I am planning to upgrade it to an acoustic upright.

My budget currently is 5k+-.

The majority of the pianos in this price range are 20-30-yo Yamahas or Kawais, but several teachers recommended us to buy European instrument.

In our area, we found a very nice Petrof 115 (1997) in perfect condition, for $3k.
Also we tried Schimmel (1987, forgot to write the model) which is in fair cosmetic but pretty good technical condition. The price is $3.5k.

My son told that Schimmel has much better piano action, and he likes the sound too, but since the piano is pretty scratched, I'm not sure if it's worth the money.

Which one would you recommend?
Or maybe there are better alternatives?

Re: Petrof or Schimmel?
dimon #2898803 10/10/19 12:13 AM
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I would say it's much more important that your son likes the tone and action, than if it's scratched or not. Of course, when you make a choice, have the piano checked by a technician before buying.

Personally, from my little experience of playing some piano's at dealers, i like Schimmel better than Petrof. But that's just a personal opinion, which maybe i shouldn't even mention because it should be worth nothing to you.

Buy the piano you or in this case your son likes, and have it's condition checked by a tech before buying, that's all there is to it actually.

And yes, there will always be different or better alternatives, but hey at some time you will have to make a choice or you will never have a piano. blush

I wouldn't rule out Yamahas and Kawai's either, just try them, you might just run into a piano you fall in love with.

Re: Petrof or Schimmel?
dimon #2898804 10/10/19 12:18 AM
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You might find the info in the following link of interest.

https://www.justanswer.com/musical-...trof-p115-ii-new-1997-serial-number.html

So much depends on the current condition of each piano.

If looks are important, the Petrof might be the way to go. If action and tone are of major importance, the Schimmel might make more sense.

More information regarding the Schimmel would be helpful (model etc.) .

I would strongly encourage you to pay an independent piano tech to evaluate each instrument. Always a good idea when buying used.





Last edited by Carey; 10/10/19 12:22 AM.

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Re: Petrof or Schimmel?
dimon #2898856 10/10/19 06:47 AM
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Depending on how bad the scratches are, a good piano touch up person might be able to make them invisible or less obvious.

Re: Petrof or Schimmel?
dimon #2898878 10/10/19 08:32 AM
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I’ve not played either brands of uprights but I have tried one Petrof large grand and several Schimmel Konzert grands, but I definitely prefer the Schimmels action and sound. Scratches can be covered. I would take an independent piano tech’s recommendation and your son’s playing preferences as your guide. Condition on the piano’s insides is what counts. The condition of the hammers, strings, sound board, and pin block tell the story. Best of Luck!


J & J
Estonia L190 Hidden Beauty
Casio Privia PX-330
I don’t play well but I play far better than I sing.
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Re: Petrof or Schimmel?
dimon #2898885 10/10/19 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by dimon

My budget currently is 5k+-.
The majority of the pianos in this price range are 20-30-yo Yamahas or Kawais, but several teachers recommended us to buy European instrument.

Where do you live? I would expect there to be many nice choices for relatively new Yamaha and Kawai uprights in that price range.


Yamaha P90, Kawai GL-10
Re: Petrof or Schimmel?
dimon #2900056 10/14/19 08:08 AM
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The nicest upright piano I ever played was a Schimmel (and I had a Schimmel grand at the time).

I've quite liked Petrof uprights too - certainly more consistent than their grands.

But if your son prefers the Schimmel, I'd be heading that way. As others have suggested, get him to try a few YAMAHA/KAWAIs before pulling out the cheque book.


Alan from Queensland, Australia (and Clara - my Grotrian Concert & Allen Organ (CF-17a)).
Re: Petrof or Schimmel?
dimon #2900340 10/15/19 07:41 AM
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Depending on your son's sense of style, the scratches might be desirable.


Learner
Re: Petrof or Schimmel?
dimon #2900345 10/15/19 07:46 AM
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Re the scratches, the real drawback is that if they are very obvious, it might mean you would get less for the piano if you want to re-sell it or trade it in.

I say this because when I was piano shopping, I asked every dealer how much they would give me for trade in on my upright. They always asked about the condition of the case and it was clear that they included that in their calculations for how they could sell the upright for.


Started piano June 1999.
Proud owner of a Yamaha C2

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Re: Petrof or Schimmel?
ShiroKuro #2900364 10/15/19 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by ShiroKuro
Re the scratches, the real drawback is that if they are very obvious, it might mean you would get less for the piano if you want to re-sell it or trade it in.

I say this because when I was piano shopping, I asked every dealer how much they would give me for trade in on my upright. They always asked about the condition of the case and it was clear that they included that in their calculations for how they could sell the upright for.


I agree with ShiroKuro about future resale. If you trade it in to the same dealer, since you’re paying less for a scratched piano, you will get less trade in value for it. However you’re getting more piano bang for the buck because it does have scratches.
For me shopping pianos, it’s a lot easier to ignore scratches and dents in the cabinet, if the sound and action are really good to great. I’m more focused on how the piano will work and play over cosmetics. However many potential buyers and dealers place cosmetics at the top of the list.


J & J
Estonia L190 Hidden Beauty
Casio Privia PX-330
I don’t play well but I play far better than I sing.
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Re: Petrof or Schimmel?
j&j #2901136 10/17/19 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by j&j
Originally Posted by ShiroKuro
Re the scratches, the real drawback is that if they are very obvious, it might mean you would get less for the piano if you want to re-sell it or trade it in.

I say this because when I was piano shopping, I asked every dealer how much they would give me for trade in on my upright. They always asked about the condition of the case and it was clear that they included that in their calculations for how they could sell the upright for.


I agree with ShiroKuro about future resale. If you trade it in to the same dealer, since you’re paying less for a scratched piano, you will get less trade in value for it. However you’re getting more piano bang for the buck because it does have scratches.
For me shopping pianos, it’s a lot easier to ignore scratches and dents in the cabinet, if the sound and action are really good to great. I’m more focused on how the piano will work and play over cosmetics. However many potential buyers and dealers place cosmetics at the top of the list.

When I was about 17yrs old (that's almost 50 yrs ago), I was at a Church youth rally in the City Hall - and we'd requested a piano be supplied. I only played a couple of accompaniments for the choir, with another pianist playing for everything else.

I took one look at the piano and ...

1) it was the biggest piano I'd ever seen (I suspect a D Hamburg Steinway); and
2) it had the worst appearance of any piano I'd ever seen - it looked like people had been dancing on it
BUT:
3) it was glorious to play!!!

It was then that I determined that a Steinway or similar grand would be mine some time in my life.

Appearances and scratches - don't matter to the pianist.


Alan from Queensland, Australia (and Clara - my Grotrian Concert & Allen Organ (CF-17a)).
Re: Petrof or Schimmel?
dimon #2901189 10/17/19 09:59 AM
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Both Schimmel and Petrof can be good pianos, and it depends on the condition of the piano internally - pin block, soundboard, action, strings. The case can be refinished if need be. I don't know the piano market over here that well but I think $3000 sound steep for a 20 year old Petrof upright and $3500 sounds steep for a 30 year old Schimmel upright with scratches on it. I'd shop around a bit more. The Petrof is likely to have the Czech built Detoa action which, at that time, was not as good as the German Renner action, if that helps your decision at all. But regulation and voicing are often far more important than the quality of the parts inside the piano, and again I say, at that age, condition is important. The piano could have been kept in very dry conditions in which case you'll have all sorts of rattles and loose things going on, or it could have been kept in very humid conditions in which case you'll have a clogged up quagmire, or it could have faced swings of humidity in which case it may have broken glue joints, etc etc. All of these things must be checked over by a competent technician who has no financial bias in the sale of the piano.

Where are you located?

Re: Petrof or Schimmel?
dimon #2901310 10/17/19 02:08 PM
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I sold Petrof back in the 1990's. Back then they were hit or miss, some being very good and others not so much. I do remember their action as being stiff. Our technicians needed to work on them a bit. When they were good they had a beautiful warm sound and bell-like quality in the upper register. I recently met someone who has a beautiful Petrof Chippendale console. It may be a 115C. I believe it is around 45" tall. Unfortunately, it's one of the less desirable units. The sound is dead and the action is terrible. Again, she purchased it in the 1990's and in all honesty, has not played for the last 12yrs and has not kept up on servicing. I managed to get my tuner to at least give it a tuning and glue some bad hammers, but even he told me that it wasn't one of the better Petrofs. I have not played any Schimmels, but do like their sound and have heard many good things about them.

Re: Petrof or Schimmel?
dimon #2901364 10/17/19 04:05 PM
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Schimmel. [If sound, touch and built quality should matter...]
P.S. In Europe, this wouldn't even be a question...

Norbert shocked

Last edited by Norbert; 10/17/19 04:08 PM.

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Re: Petrof or Schimmel?
backto_study_piano #2901390 10/17/19 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by backto_study_piano
Appearances and scratches - don't matter to the pianist.
That's only true if you mean they don't affect the sound. I'm sure you wouldn't be happy if someone scratched your personal piano.

Re: Petrof or Schimmel?
pianoloverus #2901555 10/18/19 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by backto_study_piano
Appearances and scratches - don't matter to the pianist.
That's only true if you mean they don't affect the sound. I'm sure you wouldn't be happy if someone scratched your personal piano.


I agree completely. One of the good things about buying a used piano or vehicle that already has scratches is when someone or something eventually puts another scratch on the piano or vehicle, it’s less heartbreaking.
But I can’t take my own advice. I bought my piano new and guard it like a junkyard dog.


J & J
Estonia L190 Hidden Beauty
Casio Privia PX-330
I don’t play well but I play far better than I sing.
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Re: Petrof or Schimmel?
dimon #2901615 10/18/19 11:31 AM
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A furniture repair person can do wonders for scratches and even worse. Have the scratches taken care of and you'll have the best of both worlds then. smile

Re: Petrof or Schimmel?
j&j #2901630 10/18/19 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by j&j
But I can’t take my own advice. I bought my piano new and guard it like a junkyard dog.
So do I. Even my spouse is afraid to touch our pianos. grin


Mason and Hamlin BB - 91640
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Kawai CA-65 Digital
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