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Roland DP10 pedal - is it actually 'continuous'? #2901103
10/17/19 05:07 AM
10/17/19 05:07 AM
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AlphaBravoCharlie Offline OP
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I recently bought Roland FP10, just as a controller for Pianoteq and connected Roland DP10 so-called continuous pedal. It has switch allowing to choose '0-1' mode or 'continuous'. When I connect it to FP10 and then use it with Pianoteq, even in continuous mode it sends 3 velocities: 0, ~64, 127.

With Korg Grandstage and DS-1H pedal, I am able to get full range of velocities for sustain.

I'm wondering, is DP10 not actually 'continuous' and sends only 3 velocities, or Roland FP10 is limiting it and sends only those 3 values by MIDI? I cannot test DP10 with Grandstage currently so I would appreciate information from you guys.


Ars non habet osorem nisi ignorantem
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Re: Roland DP10 pedal - is it actually 'continuous'? [Re: AlphaBravoCharlie] #2901106
10/17/19 05:14 AM
10/17/19 05:14 AM
Joined: Mar 2019
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East Gippsland, Australia
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Deltajockey Offline
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I was using my DP10 temporarily, while waiting for a Yamaha pedal, as an expression controller on my MODX.
When assigned to controlling the superknob, it appeared to work the full range.....if that helps.


The companions I can't live without.........

Kawai GL30 Acoustic Grand. Kawai MP11SE, Korg Kronos 2-88
Re: Roland DP10 pedal - is it actually 'continuous'? [Re: AlphaBravoCharlie] #2901120
10/17/19 06:43 AM
10/17/19 06:43 AM
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Sao Paul, Brazil
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EVC2017 Offline
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Deltajockey has it right. I tested it as an expression pedal once and behavior sounded continuous.

On a second thoght, it also looked continuous on the LED bargraph of RD2000 zone.

Last edited by EVC2017; 10/17/19 06:45 AM.

Kawai ES8, Roland RD2000, Yamaha AG06 mixer, Presonus Eris E5 monitors, Sennheiser HD598SR phones.
Re: Roland DP10 pedal - is it actually 'continuous'? [Re: AlphaBravoCharlie] #2901122
10/17/19 07:00 AM
10/17/19 07:00 AM
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puremusic Offline
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DP-10 is definitely continuous for me on my FP-90.


Roland FP-90 - Touchkeys - TEC BC - MIDI Expression
Kontakt - Arturia Piano V - Sonivox Eighty-Eight - Spitfire Symphony Orchestra

whitepianos.blogspot.com
Re: Roland DP10 pedal - is it actually 'continuous'? [Re: AlphaBravoCharlie] #2901125
10/17/19 07:05 AM
10/17/19 07:05 AM
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AlphaBravoCharlie Offline OP
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So it seems it is FP10 limitation. It's strange: would Roland implement it in a way, that only 3 values are being send? I understand, that internal soundengine might use only 3 values, but external MIDI communication should not be limited. I've reported a bug to Roland, hope to hear from them soon.


Ars non habet osorem nisi ignorantem
Re: Roland DP10 pedal - is it actually 'continuous'? [Re: AlphaBravoCharlie] #2901126
10/17/19 07:06 AM
10/17/19 07:06 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 7,954
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
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Originally Posted by AlphaBravoCharlie
I've reported a bug to Roland, hope to hear from them soon.

OMG. If you hear back from Roland, please tell us about it! It will be an "event"!


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Roland DP10 pedal - is it actually 'continuous'? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2901146
10/17/19 08:23 AM
10/17/19 08:23 AM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 390
Aberdeen, UK
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RichieBill Offline
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by AlphaBravoCharlie
I've reported a bug to Roland, hope to hear from them soon.

OMG. If you hear back from Roland, please tell us about it! It will be an "event"!

Why? They don't like own customers?


Roland FP-30 | Synthogy Ivory II - Grand Pianos | Production Voices - Compact Grand, Electric V | Neumann KH120 | Grado SR225i
Re: Roland DP10 pedal - is it actually 'continuous'? [Re: RichieBill] #2901153
10/17/19 08:35 AM
10/17/19 08:35 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 7,954
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
Tyrone Slothrop  Online Content

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Originally Posted by RichieBill
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by AlphaBravoCharlie
I've reported a bug to Roland, hope to hear from them soon.

OMG. If you hear back from Roland, please tell us about it! It will be an "event"!

Why? They don't like own customers?

I have an official ticket entered and logged into their trouble ticket system. It is 323 days old and I have never gotten one update on it from Roland even though the ticket has my contact info on it including email address, and I confirmed the ticket was in the system.

You are welcome to interpret this if you like.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Roland DP10 pedal - is it actually 'continuous'? [Re: RichieBill] #2901159
10/17/19 08:41 AM
10/17/19 08:41 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,723
Raleigh, North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline
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When you said "event" did you mean "miracle"?
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by AlphaBravoCharlie
I've reported a bug to Roland, hope to hear from them soon.
If you hear back from Roland, please tell us about it! It will be an "event"!

Re: Roland DP10 pedal - is it actually 'continuous'? [Re: AlphaBravoCharlie] #2901181
10/17/19 09:37 AM
10/17/19 09:37 AM
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Posts: 240
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AlphaBravoCharlie Offline OP
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Dexibell, who are basically ex-Roland Italy, tend to respond very quickly for all kinds of questions and issues. I had the same serivce quality with Casio and Korg as well. I've never had to deal with Yamaha, Kurzweil or Kawai. If what you guys are saying about Roland support is truth I wil be probably left with 'plug-unplug pedal and do the same with USB cable' as my only possible fixing attempt. Or I will just send FP10 for 'warranty' repair as 'half pedalling' is clearly stated in specs (and it currently works as 0/64/127 velocity switch, not proper half-pedalling). I could have bought FP30..


Ars non habet osorem nisi ignorantem
Re: Roland DP10 pedal - is it actually 'continuous'? [Re: AlphaBravoCharlie] #2901182
10/17/19 09:43 AM
10/17/19 09:43 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 7,954
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
Tyrone Slothrop  Online Content

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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
When you said "event" did you mean "miracle"?
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by AlphaBravoCharlie
I've reported a bug to Roland, hope to hear from them soon.
If you hear back from Roland, please tell us about it! It will be an "event"!

­čśé

Originally Posted by AlphaBravoCharlie
Or I will just send FP10 for 'warranty' repair as 'half pedalling' is clearly stated in specs (and it currently works as 0/64/127 velocity switch, not proper half-pedalling). I could have bought FP30..

Yeah, perhaps you need some sort of stratagem or argument for exchanging your FP10 for an FP30. The FP10 is a real beginners keyboard. You hardly seem to be the complete beginner if you need proper half pedalling.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Roland DP10 pedal - is it actually 'continuous'? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2901193
10/17/19 10:02 AM
10/17/19 10:02 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 240
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AlphaBravoCharlie Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Yeah, perhaps you need some sort of stratagem or argument for exchanging your FP10 for an FP30. The FP10 is a real beginners keyboard. You hardly seem to be the complete beginner if you need proper half pedalling.


I don't care if they target it as 'beginner' or 'Pro'. I like its action more than RH3 in Korg Grandstage and need it only for VSTs. Also, it's super compact. Let's wait for Roland to respond laugh


Ars non habet osorem nisi ignorantem
Re: Roland DP10 pedal - is it actually 'continuous'? [Re: AlphaBravoCharlie] #2901196
10/17/19 10:08 AM
10/17/19 10:08 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,723
Raleigh, North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline
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MacMacMac  Offline
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I don't understand this. I'm thinking your pedal works as advertised, but are you saying it does not?
Originally Posted by AlphaBravoCharlie
... 'half pedalling' is clearly stated in specs (and it currently works as 0/64/127 velocity switch, not proper half-pedalling).
Isn't that "64" the half-pedal point?

Re: Roland DP10 pedal - is it actually 'continuous'? [Re: AlphaBravoCharlie] #2901202
10/17/19 10:17 AM
10/17/19 10:17 AM
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AlphaBravoCharlie Offline OP
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Roland DP10 is a 'continuous' pedal in theory, able to send range of 0-127 velocity levels for sustain. And it apparently does, when used with FP30 for example. When connected to FP10, and then FP10 via USB MIDI to laptop, only single values 0,64,127 are being transmitted.


Ars non habet osorem nisi ignorantem
Re: Roland DP10 pedal - is it actually 'continuous'? [Re: AlphaBravoCharlie] #2901205
10/17/19 10:24 AM
10/17/19 10:24 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 7,954
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
Tyrone Slothrop  Online Content

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Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 7,954
Originally Posted by AlphaBravoCharlie
Roland DP10 is a 'continuous' pedal in theory, able to send range of 0-127 velocity levels for sustain. And it apparently does, when used with FP30 for example. When connected to FP10, and then FP10 via USB MIDI to laptop, only single values 0,64,127 are being transmitted.

MacMacMac is raising the technical and nomenclature point: Is "half"-pedaling just a single half-way point, or is it a range of values?


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Roland DP10 pedal - is it actually 'continuous'? [Re: AlphaBravoCharlie] #2901222
10/17/19 11:00 AM
10/17/19 11:00 AM
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Gombessa Offline
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This depends on the piano. Yamaha's lower end pianos also have a limited set of MIDI values for the pedal.

Originally Posted by AlphaBravoCharlie
Roland DP10 is a 'continuous' pedal in theory, able to send range of 0-127 velocity levels for sustain. And it apparently does, when used with FP30 for example. When connected to FP10, and then FP10 via USB MIDI to laptop, only single values 0,64,127 are being transmitted.


Note that the pedal itself doesn't send MIDI values. It just sends voltage readings that are adjusted by a pot. The DP reads the voltage and then decides what MIDI values correspond to it, whether, 0, 1, 2, 25, 64 or 127. So some DPs "support" only one or 2 half-pedal values, others might output a continuous range 0-127. The pedal itself though, can output a continuous voltage "curve" so if you plug it into another DP that supports it, you could have different MIDI behavior from it (more or fewer half-pedal values).


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Roland DP10 pedal - is it actually 'continuous'? [Re: AlphaBravoCharlie] #2901233
10/17/19 11:26 AM
10/17/19 11:26 AM
Joined: Oct 2018
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Brittany, France
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petebfrance Offline
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I looked the FP10 up on Roland's French site. Under the 'tech specs' it says:
in English rather than French!
- Pedals:
- Damper (capable of half pedal when optional pedal connected) br />Optional pedal DP-10 (capable of half pedal)

for the FP30
(not in English this time - very odd!)
- P├ędales
- Accessory pedal
- P├ędale fournie : Sourdine

- Optional pedals
- Damper (capable of continuous detection)
- P├ędalier optionnel : Sourdine (├á d├ętection continue), Douce (├á d├ętection continue),
- Sostenuto (fonction assignable)

Site: https://www.roland.com/fr/products/fp_series/fp-10/
The model numbers are near the top of the page, and the specs can be found by scrolling down to 'TECH SPECS'
it would appear that the FP30 is capable of continuous pedal operation but the FP10 does half-pedal.
It's a problem I came across in trying to interpret DP specs on a French site that I look at regularly (I'll really buy a new DP one of these days, honestly) - sometimes by 'half pedal' they mean continuous, other times literally half-pedal.


regards
Pete
Re: Roland DP10 pedal - is it actually 'continuous'? [Re: AlphaBravoCharlie] #2901261
10/17/19 12:19 PM
10/17/19 12:19 PM
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Gorlice, Poland
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pawelsz Offline
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Maybe FP-10 recognizes 0-127 from the pedal as 0-127 for the internal module but transmits only 3 separate values through midi out or usb port? MIDI implemetation chart isn't really helpful or I can't find that info
https://static.roland.com/assets/media/pdf/LX_HP_KF-10_GP_DP_RP102_FP-10_MIDI_Imple_eng04_W.pdf

Can you get different "lengths of decay" on FP-10 when half-pedaling or is this just one value for specific place of the pedal travel?


Yamaha P-515, Roland FA-07, Hammond XK-1c
Re: Roland DP10 pedal - is it actually 'continuous'? [Re: pawelsz] #2901263
10/17/19 12:23 PM
10/17/19 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by pawelsz
Maybe FP-10 recognizes 0-127 from the pedal as 0-127 for the internal module but transmits only 3 separate values through midi out or usb port?


That is certainly a possibility, but in the few times that situations come up where it could be the case (across numerous DPs), it turns out that the DP handles it internally exactly as the MIDI data would suggest.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Roland DP10 pedal - is it actually 'continuous'? [Re: AlphaBravoCharlie] #2901344
10/17/19 03:24 PM
10/17/19 03:24 PM
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AlphaBravoCharlie Offline OP
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Well, I've got response from Roland: 'With the FP-10 that is all you can do.'


Ars non habet osorem nisi ignorantem
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