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Second hand Yamaha 161 Arius or new DP #2900740
10/16/19 09:07 AM
10/16/19 09:07 AM
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 7
Murcia, Spain
J
John McM Offline OP
Junior Member
John McM  Offline OP
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J

Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 7
Murcia, Spain
Hello everybody,

I'm a dad whose 7-year-old son has started piano lessons and seems to enjoy them. I don't play myself. His teacher has said that, for practice, he needs a keyboard at least and it should have 88 keys and a realistic action.

I don't want to break the bank but I would like to have a nice instrument around the house as I've also got two 6-year-old twin sons and they should all have the option to take up music in the years ahead.

I'm thinking of possibly a Casio PX-120 or Korg B1 because they seem to meet the teacher's specs but I've noticed a second-hand Yamaha 161 Arius for sale near to us for $550. I like the idea that it is already mounted in a rosewood case with pedals and I know that it was a relatively expensive model about 8 years ago. I'm not sure how fast these things age though.

Would be great to get any feedback.

Many thanks,

John

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Re: Second hand Yamaha 161 Arius or new DP [Re: John McM] #2900822
10/16/19 12:36 PM
10/16/19 12:36 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,146
Canada
Serge88 Offline

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I think the PX-120 is also an old model and yes they depreciate fast because new model comes up every 2 years. They also get better every year, I recommend a new one or a recent model.
I have a 12 years old Roland FP-7 and I still enjoy it.



"The piano keys are black and white but they sound like a million colors in your mind.”
– Maria Cristina

Re: Second hand Yamaha 161 Arius or new DP [Re: John McM] #2900827
10/16/19 12:41 PM
10/16/19 12:41 PM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,863
Europe
JoeT Offline
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Well, most piano teachers ask for renting an acoustic upright piano as the bare minimum for serious lessons.

The question is what you want:

1. Steer your children away as fast as possible from a rather expensive hobby?

Get them a Casio or Korg or some oudated antique. They will lose interest quickly and then you can cancel the expensive lessons and throw the keyboard out.

2. Foster the gift and send them on a livelong journey of music?

Get them an acoustic upright (used or new) or a decent new digital ($/€ 1.500+).


Yamaha P-515 | Kawai ES100 | Steinberg UR22 | Sony MDR-7506
Re: Second hand Yamaha 161 Arius or new DP [Re: John McM] #2900831
10/16/19 12:43 PM
10/16/19 12:43 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 7,954
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
Tyrone Slothrop  Online Content

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Originally Posted by John McM
I'm thinking of possibly a Casio PX-120

This piano was released in September 2007. The design is 12 years old and it is an entry level piano. There are already 5 generations of Casios after the PX-120. After 12 years, many moving parts wear out including the silicone key contact strips may crack and become more brittle and less springy due to oxidation. I think it wouldn't be wise to buy such an old piano if you think your son might be playing for a while.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Second hand Yamaha 161 Arius or new DP [Re: John McM] #2900835
10/16/19 12:50 PM
10/16/19 12:50 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,723
Raleigh, North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline
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That answers the question, TS. I would not consider any twelve-year-old piano.

Re: Second hand Yamaha 161 Arius or new DP [Re: JoeT] #2900851
10/16/19 01:06 PM
10/16/19 01:06 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,146
Canada
Serge88 Offline

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Originally Posted by JoeT
Well, most piano teachers ask for renting an acoustic upright piano as the bare minimum for serious lessons.

The question is what you want:

1. Steer your children away as fast as possible from a rather expensive hobby?

Get them a Casio or Korg or some oudated antique. They will lose interest quickly and then you can cancel the expensive lessons and throw the keyboard out.

2. Foster the gift and send them on a livelong journey of music?

Get them an acoustic upright (used or new) or a decent new digital ($/€ 1.500+).


I disagree, I think children don't need serious lessons. They should have fun and enjoy the lessons. My teacher play games with young children, this is how they learn.



"The piano keys are black and white but they sound like a million colors in your mind.”
– Maria Cristina

Re: Second hand Yamaha 161 Arius or new DP [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2900862
10/16/19 01:15 PM
10/16/19 01:15 PM
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 7
Murcia, Spain
J
John McM Offline OP
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John McM  Offline OP
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J

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Posts: 7
Murcia, Spain
Ok. One thousand apologies. I actually meant the Casio PX-160 which is on sale now. I was asking for advice on whether to go for that, or the second hand Yamaha, that was about €1,500 about 8 years ago I think and had amazing reviews at that time.

Reviews of the Casio say that it has weighted keys so I thought it would serve for a beginner. The reviews are generally very good, saying it is the best at that price point: https://www.pianodreamers.com/casio-privia-px-160-review/

I understand that something at €1,500 is going to be better in many ways but surely you can enjoy playing on a less expensive but still high quality instrument.

If I'm wrong on that I'd love to have one or two recommendations of particular brands. I've just seen reviews online for brands like the Kawai KDP110 which seem like fantastic and beautiful instruments at a lower price point.

Many thanks,

John

Re: Second hand Yamaha 161 Arius or new DP [Re: John McM] #2900866
10/16/19 01:23 PM
10/16/19 01:23 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,146
Canada
Serge88 Offline

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Here's what a teacher has to say about digital piano,

http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2899260/1.html



"The piano keys are black and white but they sound like a million colors in your mind.”
– Maria Cristina

Re: Second hand Yamaha 161 Arius or new DP [Re: John McM] #2900868
10/16/19 01:27 PM
10/16/19 01:27 PM
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 69
New York
K
KL NY Offline
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Posts: 69
New York
Originally Posted by John McM
Hello everybody,

I'm a dad whose 7-year-old son has started piano lessons and seems to enjoy them. I don't play myself. His teacher has said that, for practice, he needs a keyboard at least and it should have 88 keys and a realistic action.

I don't want to break the bank but I would like to have a nice instrument around the house as I've also got two 6-year-old twin sons and they should all have the option to take up music in the years ahead.

I'm thinking of possibly a Casio PX-120 or Korg B1 because they seem to meet the teacher's specs but I've noticed a second-hand Yamaha 161 Arius for sale near to us for $550. I like the idea that it is already mounted in a rosewood case with pedals and I know that it was a relatively expensive model about 8 years ago. I'm not sure how fast these things age though.

Would be great to get any feedback.

Many thanks,

John


If you cant afford an acoustic piano, I think the used Arius is a good choice. Not sure the pricing is good or not, I sold a Arius 141 few months ago for $300, that is older than the 161. the 161 is a decent piano for beginner. Its may not sounds as good as newer model but it serves it purpose.

On the other hand, if you can afford an acoustic and get an acoustic,

Re: Second hand Yamaha 161 Arius or new DP [Re: John McM] #2900883
10/16/19 02:03 PM
10/16/19 02:03 PM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 43
Omaha, Nebraska
K
Kougeru Offline
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Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 43
Omaha, Nebraska
I always advise against used digital goods, unless you can get a warranty somehow. There's just so many things that can do wrong. And my luck is pretty bad, so it's not worth the risk for me personally. But also most people I know I've been hurt bad at least once. The way I see it, if it I buy something for 50% off and it breaks within a year, I gotta spend at least that much again to get it replaced. I would've been better off paying full price and getting a multi-year warranty. For example a relative of mine just spent $500 on a gaming monitor a few months ago and it just got a bunch of dead pixels. Luckily it has a warranty with free shipping both ways. But he almost bought a used one for $300. if that he did that and it broke, He'd be out at $600-$700 instead of just the $500.

Re: Second hand Yamaha 161 Arius or new DP [Re: John McM] #2900884
10/16/19 02:05 PM
10/16/19 02:05 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 7,954
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
Tyrone Slothrop  Online Content

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Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 7,954
Originally Posted by John McM
Ok. One thousand apologies. I actually meant the Casio PX-160 which is on sale now. I was asking for advice on whether to go for that, or the second hand Yamaha, that was about €1,500 about 8 years ago I think and had amazing reviews at that time.

Reviews of the Casio say that it has weighted keys so I thought it would serve for a beginner. The reviews are generally very good, saying it is the best at that price point: https://www.pianodreamers.com/casio-privia-px-160-review/

I understand that something at €1,500 is going to be better in many ways but surely you can enjoy playing on a less expensive but still high quality instrument.

If I'm wrong on that I'd love to have one or two recommendations of particular brands. I've just seen reviews online for brands like the Kawai KDP110 which seem like fantastic and beautiful instruments at a lower price point.

Many thanks,

John

At the price point of a PX-160, I'd really consider a Roland FP-10 instead. The action (which is the same as that in the FP-30) is better than that in a PX-160.

I think either a PX-160 or a FP-10 will be better for your son than an 8-year old Yamaha.

And both PX-160 and FP-10 would have a better action than a Korg B1, I'd think.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Second hand Yamaha 161 Arius or new DP [Re: Serge88] #2900911
10/16/19 03:17 PM
10/16/19 03:17 PM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,863
Europe
JoeT Offline
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JoeT  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,863
Europe
Originally Posted by Serge88
Originally Posted by JoeT
Well, most piano teachers ask for renting an acoustic upright piano as the bare minimum for serious lessons.

The question is what you want:

1. Steer your children away as fast as possible from a rather expensive hobby?

Get them a Casio or Korg or some oudated antique. They will lose interest quickly and then you can cancel the expensive lessons and throw the keyboard out.

2. Foster the gift and send them on a livelong journey of music?

Get them an acoustic upright (used or new) or a decent new digital ($/€ 1.500+).


I disagree, I think children don't need serious lessons. They should have fun and enjoy the lessons. My teacher play games with young children, this is how they learn.



You are of course entitled your opinion and might think that a TV with a Nintendo or other options for instant gratification are better.

However I think serious piano lessons are one of the best things to provide to a child with tremendous benefits lasting far into adult life.

Provided that there is something worthwhile available to practice piano on.


Yamaha P-515 | Kawai ES100 | Steinberg UR22 | Sony MDR-7506
Re: Second hand Yamaha 161 Arius or new DP [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2900912
10/16/19 03:18 PM
10/16/19 03:18 PM
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 7
Murcia, Spain
J
John McM Offline OP
Junior Member
John McM  Offline OP
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J

Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 7
Murcia, Spain
Thanks a lot for these comments and the recommendation on the Roland. At the moment my son is just happy that he's playing the opening to jingle bells but I realise he'll be a better player in the end if the instrument has some sensitivity. It's just that it seems that the €400 pianos aren't really trash.

I take the point about second hand goods as well. Here in Spain people seem to ask for way too much for second hand stuff.

I'll post back with what I choose. Might go a step up to the Kawai. I like the idea of a digital piano because it doesn't need tuning, can be used with headphones, record songs, midi and other benefits. We haven't got the space right now for an acoustic but if the first one is a success we can always upgrade a bit later.

Best wishes,

John

Re: Second hand Yamaha 161 Arius or new DP [Re: John McM] #2900914
10/16/19 03:23 PM
10/16/19 03:23 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 7,954
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
Tyrone Slothrop  Online Content

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Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 7,954
Originally Posted by John McM
It's just that it seems that the €400 pianos aren't really trash.

The FP-10 is roughly at that price point, and is definitely not trash. It is quite a good piano for that price, and would probably serve your son for a few years before he could benefit from a further upgrade.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Second hand Yamaha 161 Arius or new DP [Re: John McM] #2900916
10/16/19 03:27 PM
10/16/19 03:27 PM
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 7
Murcia, Spain
J
John McM Offline OP
Junior Member
John McM  Offline OP
Junior Member
J

Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 7
Murcia, Spain
Hi JoeT,

I see at the bottom of your post you seem to be recommending the Kawai ES100, which is only €530 now. That's kind of within my price range but earlier you seemed to be suggesting I would need to spend €1,500.

Re: Second hand Yamaha 161 Arius or new DP [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2900921
10/16/19 03:37 PM
10/16/19 03:37 PM
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 7
Murcia, Spain
J
John McM Offline OP
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John McM  Offline OP
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J

Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 7
Murcia, Spain
Thanks Tyrone. It's great to hear some informed opinions and makes me feel a bit more confident about the purchase.

Best wishes,

John

Re: Second hand Yamaha 161 Arius or new DP [Re: John McM] #2900934
10/16/19 03:56 PM
10/16/19 03:56 PM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,863
Europe
JoeT Offline
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JoeT  Offline
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Originally Posted by John McM
I see at the bottom of your post you seem to be recommending the Kawai ES100, which is only €530 now. That's kind of within my price range but earlier you seemed to be suggesting I would need to spend €1,500.


My signature states what I own. The ES100 not manufactured anymore and I wouldn't recommend it, because I actually managed to wear out its action within four years through regular amateur piano practice in a private setting - no heavy-duty use. (The successor ES110 features a different action.)

While the action was serviceable and is fixable, my original plan was to keep it for occasional low-duty use after five years of use and that didn't pan out.

My recommendation would be the instrument leftmost in my signature: Yamaha P-515. It not only features the state of art CFX tone generator and good speakers, Yamaha's actions also last for decades. And that's exactly at the price point I mentioned.


Yamaha P-515 | Kawai ES100 | Steinberg UR22 | Sony MDR-7506
Re: Second hand Yamaha 161 Arius or new DP [Re: John McM] #2900943
10/16/19 04:14 PM
10/16/19 04:14 PM
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 7
Murcia, Spain
J
John McM Offline OP
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John McM  Offline OP
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J

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Posts: 7
Murcia, Spain
Thanks for that explanation. Yes, the build quality is going to be a lot better and the speakers are important too.

Thanks to everyone. John

Re: Second hand Yamaha 161 Arius or new DP [Re: John McM] #2901002
10/16/19 07:33 PM
10/16/19 07:33 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 5,121
Richmond, BC, Canada
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Charles Cohen Offline
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Quote
. . . It's just that it seems that the €400 pianos aren't really trash. . . .


That's true for the Casio PX-160 and its cousins from other makes. You can learn a lot of music on "entry-level" DP's.

There's a substantial improvement in models like the Yamaha P515, Kawai ES8, Roland FP90. The action is closer to an acoustic piano "feel" (and every one of those DP's is different!), and the sound generators are better. But they cost more.

I figure that buying an entry-level DP, and then losing some money when you sell it, and upgrade when your child needs a better piano, is "the cost of information" --

. . . How else could you know that he/she had the talent, and drive, to succeed ?


. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / EV ZXA1 speaker
Re: Second hand Yamaha 161 Arius or new DP [Re: Charles Cohen] #2901003
10/16/19 07:35 PM
10/16/19 07:35 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 7,954
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
Tyrone Slothrop  Online Content

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Originally Posted by Charles Cohen
I figure that buying an entry-level DP, and then losing some money when you sell it, and upgrade when your child needs a better piano, is "the cost of information" --

. . . How else could you know that he/she had the talent, and drive, to succeed ?

+1 Agree!


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
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