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My church is having a 1903 NY Steinway D in mahogany rebuilt here in the UK, and I am looking for input on a few items. Here is the basic info:

Venue: historic elliptical church with domed ceiling, seats 1,200 (stepped auditorium and gallery). Inherently live space but dampened with acoustic panels.

Goals: rich, warm sound to accompany singing; action and projection suitable for solo piano concerts. Period authenticity is not really a priority. Concerto use is not possibility (at most, we might have a quintet).

Decisions so far: new Kluge keyboard with recycled tops, Renner action minus hammers, Ciresa soundboard with diaphragmic profile to match original, SAP okoume wood lid, pitthan wire (bass strings made in-house).

Decisions pending:
a) hammers. We are thinking of Ronsen Weickert on WNG shanks and flanges. In addition to input on the basic choice of make/model, we would be glad for any tips on specs to give to Ray from those who have used this combo.
b) scaling. The UK is more conservative than the US and my rebuilder is one of the few who sometimes re-scales. We were wondering what the "best practice" might be on a NY D. We do not have anything too dramatic in mind, but wondered if there were known areas where a change might be worthwhile (for instance, we obviously do not have a tech on payroll, so tweaks to improve tuning stability might be useful).
c) bridges. Likewise.

I should say that we currently have on loan a 1960s Steinway C rebuilt ten years ago using standard Hamburg parts. I am generally a fan of the C but we are not happy with this particular example. The Renner hammers had previously been needled down for a small venue so the projection is obviously lacking (even for basic church use). Yet it gained nothing in the trade; it does not have much in the way of warmth or depth either. Anyhow, having this C has given us greater clarity on what we want for the D.

Yes, I trust my rebuilder but no, he has not done a NY D before; yes, he definitely wants me involved on all these decisions. We are both very happy with the results of our collaboration on my personal instrument. Thanks very much for your help!

I would simply go and try finished examples of a rebuilder's work on similar pianos, with work of a similar scope. When you find a couple examples that you love, that's what (and who) you want.

If the rebuilder hasn't done a bunch of model D Steinways before, I wouldn't feel comfortable being the "guinea pig" while they are learning, unless the price is massively discounted and the space doesn't require a critically high level of performance.

Choosing from a specs list to automatically assume the best possible result is folly. Especially if you're not the person who's doing the rebuilding or the follow up service. Also, it makes you partially responsible for the result. The safest course of action is to purchase an already rebuilt or newer used D and trade or sell your rebuildable "core".

Steinway hammers will do whatever you want if you can find someone who knows how to deal with them.

What's the current state of the piano? Why must the soundboard be replaced, plus keyboard, strings and action. That sounds like the cabinet and plate are left as intact pieces.

That sounds eminently sensible to me (speaking as a non-rebuilder with no experience in that field).

What is being proposed is certainly a full rebuild and represents a LOT of work. Unless it's being done at very low cost as a kind of charitable endeavour by the rebuilder (in which case, what comeback do you have if the result isn't what you want?) it would seem to make sense to at least scope out what is available in already reconditioned/rebuilt pianos, and what you might get in trade-in.

You might find that there is something out there that isn't a Steinway but has got the sound you want and is competitively priced because it doesn't have the "brand cachet" of the Steinway name. And you might get a good price for yours because it DOES have the "brand cachet , even though it's old.

Steinway hammers are great especially if you can get them before they are juiced up.
For what you described I would choose Isaac hammers.
A good voicer is essential.
I have no experience with Pitthan wire but it looks like they have a great variety. Many techs are doing hybrid scaling these days and it is something to consider, string makers can usually help.
I would measure the original scale and remeasure after the work is complete before restringing and plot it on a scaling program and get professional help with any changes.
I don’t have experience with made to order ready to install soundboard assemblies but hopefully your rebuilder knows and trusts Ciresa.
There is no guarantee that copying an original design will get desired results.
Why WNG shanks only and no other WNG action parts? Did an artist request them?? Action geometry will need to be addressed regardless.
I assume new bridge or at least recapped with new pins?
What about a new tuning pin block??
New or reusing original is a big part of tuning stability. If not replacing I would suggest the Larudee lo-torque oversize pins.
Will the back action also be replaced?
Several things can be done to help tuning stability and it’s mostly focused on all of the string terminations.
You need a tuner who can do rock solid tunings that hold up through demanding performance

Terminal degree (from a fellow PhD),
Thanks very much for replying. Just to clarify, I said he had not done a *New York* D--there are few in the UK who have, this side of the pond being supplied by Hamburg. He has done many Hamburg instruments of all sizes including D's. My daughter is playing an example of his work downstairs now, and it sounds heavenly. In the four years since in was complete I still never tire of hearing it. Most of the specs I mention were what he used on it. The few exceptions are mainly related to the NY vs. Hamburg differences; hence the request for advice from the (largely US-based) experts.

Regarding just trying finished work and just leaving it to the rebuilder, well I would just not be interested in such a situation. My desire when I get involved in any project is to work together with someone who want this one to be special, their finest achievement yet. Some rebuilders are like factories, mass producing instruments with the same specs. I have chosen otherwise.

BDB, great point. I agree completely that well-voiced NY hammers could do what we want. I also agree with your qualification "if you can find someone who knows how to deal with them". Sadly, using chemicals on hammers is anathema here in the UK. I know both concert techs in my neck of the woods, and neither are sold on the concept let alone practiced in it. Same with my rebuilder; I ended up applying Ari Issac's special sauce to his hammers (which they absolutely need) myself last time. Someone might say that the London techs like Ulrich Gerhartz could do it, well, this is not a factory instrument and we are not in London. Hence we are looking for something that will not require too much in the way of building up. But I will keep that thought in mind.

Gene,
Thanks very much for replying.
On hammers, I have Isaac's on my 1920's model R. I truly love the way they sound. They are everything they are hyped to be in terms of sustain, tone quality, and stability over time. But it was a battle to get there. The production precision and consistency left much to be desired and my rebuilder had lots of extra work, and I ended up doing some additional reshaping myself as well as applying Ari's hardener solution to 2/3 of the scale. Even still I am tempted to get them just because the final result was so good. I was thinking in terms of the Ronsen Weickerts because I am told they share some of the qualities but have more precise/consistent production. Thoughts?
Yes, the soundboard is the biggest single gamble (in the long term as well as the short term), but we do have confidence in Ciresa's product. More importantly, the rebuilder is a compression board specialist, and knows how to design and install them.
Yes, it will have new pin block and bridge. Everything that can be replaced will be replaced, including the lid, legs, and castors. The core was not in good condition.

OE1FEU,

The core was in poor condition, and even many of the case parts must be be replaced. This is a total rebuild because it needs to be, not out of fiat.

For Ari’s hammers, I can usually get good results by applying a small amount of dilute solution of acetone/plastic keytop to the strike point and working with that. The felt is so resilient that the shoulders really don’t require reinforcement. Possible with exception in the high treble.

Also: for consistency, machining really helps. Even weight progression. For example: weigh #1 and #88 and divide by 88 before and after machining.
Sometimes I can simply choose the thinnest hammer and make them all the same width and achieve even weight progression. There are strikeweight programs available. Then there is even friction in the flanges etc. work like this helps create consistency and reduce voicing efforts

This is a huge topic. First, the tech responsible for tone-regulation must be in charge and responsible for the tone and touch quality. He/she can't be successful if they are "forced" to use materials they are unskilled with. They should understand how to reduce the mass of any new hammer they purchase to fit it to the leverage of the action.

Reducing the mass of the hammers, (especially from about C52 and getting ever more important as you reach note C88), will brighten up the tone. After that is the time to begin to employ felt stiffening agents to bring up the power and bite.

Second, the shape of the V-bar should be filed to a uniform true V-shape. The string should only contact a 1mm wide surface once it has been at tension and spaced. The V-bar should not be hardened. The string will "peen" the surface and self-machine the final shape of the string termination.

So, I wish you luck!

Erchoukyrie, you are getting some good advice. I have done a full action rebuild on a Steinway D using Ronsen Low Profile Weikert felt hammers and WNG parts (in this case, shanks, whippens, capstans, rail pins, backchecks). My NY D was a 2004 year model, my customer had requested these specs from me without my solicitation. We could not use NY Steinway hammers, because the hammer bore was off by 8 mm on the original hammers. Ray Negron will work with us rebuilders on a custom basis - we can ask specific things from him and he will accommodate. I know of no other hammer maker/supplier who does this. I was able to order hammers that were long enough to get the correct bore and the correct tail length. From there I do the boring, tail length, tapering, coving, and curving. I weigh all 88 hammers and adjust the hammer weights to a chosen Stanwood Spline curve, to a tolerance of .1 gram. Ed is correct in stating that controlling the mass of the hammer is very important. Controlling the weight to a close tolerance will result in a piano with fewer inconsistencies from one note to the next.

I have installed many sets of NY Steinway hammers over the past 45 years, and am very familiar with their specific voicing protocols. I use them now when working on newer Steinways and others' rebuilds that use these hammers. That said, they are not my hammer of first choice. I have been using the Ronsen Weikert felt since David Love developed them with Ray Negron. Some comments comparing the two: The Ronsen Weikert Felt hammers are the closest thing we can get to what was on your 1903 D originally in terms of tone and touch. The modern Steinway hammer is heavier and will have a somewhat different character being lacquered (that's not a criticism, these hammers can sound very good, but it is different). My experience with this D and other pianos that I use the Ronsen hammers on is that there is a broader range of color and a larger loudness ladder. My preference in voicing these hammers is to do as much tone regulation with needles and sandpaper grits. Then I can apply small amounts of dope to the hammers if I need to gain a bit more brilliance. I am not affecting the resilience of the felt in this way and I get the best of both worlds. Your voicers will find that they do not need as much needling and that the hammers will stabilize fairly quickly.

I would do some more exploration of the Pitthan wire before making that choice. Are they a newly resurrected company?

Let me say that I fully support your desire to achieve a fully artistic rebuild, to have a piano with its own special voice. It's not the easiest thing to achieve, but if you never reach for it, you won't likely get there. Allow me to make a recommendation for piano wire; that will be to use Paulello piano wire and hybrid stringing. In my eight plus years of using the wire on all my rebuilds, it has never disappointed and always achieves consistent and predictable results. To a person, my customers have been delighted. The use of hybrid wire will allow a more balanced and blended scale, and more seamless at the important transitions. The wire has been around for 25 years and is the finest piano wire in the world. It is a more liquid sound, with a broad range of color and more clarity. Combine that with the Weikert felt hammers, and you have a marriage made in Heaven. If you choose Paulello wire, consider using his Nickel plated soft iron wrapped bass strings. It is a different sound from the copper wrapped bass strings that are ubiquitous, dark, warm, and textured.

There may be others, but the only person in the UK that I know is using Paulello wire is Muzaffar Shah of Grand Passion Pianos in London. I have exchanged a few emails with him, and he has experience with Paulello wire and the iron wraps. https://www.grandpassionpianos.co.uk/single-post/2019/05/28/Ace-of-Bass.

I hope this can be useful to you.

Will Truitt

Which begs the question whether it would not make a lot more sense to go shopping for a European concert grand in better condition. Economically speaking that would definitely be the better solution, especially since you have a surprise egg that may not sound as expected and yet have cost a lot of money.

OE1FEU,
The poor condition of the core meant that we bought it for a good price, so that the core + total rebuild will still be under any finished instrument I know of. Also, we wanted one in mahogany with custom legs (a shop just made them for us in Nicaragua) to match the church interior. There are not all that many NY D's with mahogany cases ever built, and certainly not enough fully rebuilt ones in Europe to make choosing one of them preferable to commissioning a rebuild.

That being said, I think your advice is absolutely correct for the majority of situations.

I'm not a technician, but I did have my Steinway NY B rebuilt with Ronsen Weickert hammers and a full WNG action. My technician is very skilled at this and an excellent voicer. I'm so glad I made that decision. It plays like a dream.

DO NOt Copy the Original board, especially if it's a Diaphragmatic type as it gives the treble a structural weakness. Besides your 1903 is before that period. Steinway D's have a heavy rib scale that also should not be copied as it can be improved on. Also species is also not the most important factor, I have installed many boards using different species and the results are pretty similar with a slight variety of timbre. If your looking for a more luxurious tone then a proper grading of the panel and a properly designed rib scale will be the priority.

The agraffes need to be machined properly as they are not made properly as Ed M has mentioned.

Ronsens are a good choice for the Hammers. But I think its better to go with the recommendation of your rebuilder. As a good tone will be in his hands, it's best to go with the hammers that he has tons of experience with. Each type of hammer has their own idiosyncrasies , and it may be best to tap into the rebuilders favorite choice of hammer.
Good Luck.
-chris

Will,
I am working with Ronsen Weikert hammers; my second set and I am loving them. I used the Bacon felt on a Chickering 109C, and an 1872 Bluthner. with very nice results. The tone brightened up quite quickly with little effort beyond the initial repeated tunings for wire stability. And after a few years of service, they still sound good, but never really developed a harsh bite. This is perfect for these style pianos, but I think Steinways are meant for a slightly more aggressive hammer. The Ronsen Weikerts seem to fit that bill. Just that little more resilient than the Bacons, they still have a good weight profile. I recently returned an 1897 Steinway B to its original high leverage/low hammer mass configuration. The Weikerts fell right into line without any excessive machining.

MY question; What do you mean by "low profile"?

Thanks'
Craig