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Re: Recommendations for piano with MIDI recording? [Re: itm] #2898655
10/09/19 03:03 PM
10/09/19 03:03 PM
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Of course, new keyboard is always nice, especially if yours is old and wearing out. Most new keyboards will have built-in midi recording. But a few don't, e.g. the Roland FP-10 I got over the summer. Roland FP-30 has same nice key action and, as others have said, will record to usb-stick, but may be slightly over your spending limit.

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Re: Recommendations for piano with MIDI recording? [Re: itm] #2898660
10/09/19 03:19 PM
10/09/19 03:19 PM
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This article (from 2015) shows usb config menu that should be something like what you find, needing to change usb-otg configuration. https://www.androidcentral.com/inside-marshmallow-usb-connection-options Not sure, but this article is from 2015 and the Android phone has it, seems like it should be pretty standard by now. I haven't connected to my 2017 Android phone (Moto G5) by usb midi (don't have right adapter) but I have connected my keyboard via bluetooth midi with Roland's own app.

Re: Recommendations for piano with MIDI recording? [Re: hes] #2898671
10/09/19 03:47 PM
10/09/19 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by hes
This article (from 2015) shows usb config menu that should be something like what you find, needing to change usb-otg configuration. https://www.androidcentral.com/inside-marshmallow-usb-connection-options Not sure, but this article is from 2015 and the Android phone has it, seems like it should be pretty standard by now. I haven't connected to my 2017 Android phone (Moto G5) by usb midi (don't have right adapter) but I have connected my keyboard via bluetooth midi with Roland's own app.

As pointed out in this post here, not every Android device is guaranteed to support MIDI, natively.


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Re: Recommendations for piano with MIDI recording? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2898718
10/09/19 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

As pointed out in this post here, not every Android device is guaranteed to support MIDI, natively.


I think my saying "pretty standard by now" is compatible with "not . . . guaranteed to support"

fwiw, here's post from way back in 2014 where someone reported a midi keyboard working seamlessly vis usb midi with a Samsung Note 3 phone:
https://forums.androidcentral.com/s...di-keyboard-samsung-galaxy-note-3-a.html (post reports bad latency, which may still be an issue for live playing, but not a problem at all for merely recording the midi data).

Seems odd to me that in 2019 there are major problems connecting a midi keyboard to a Samsung tablet, but anything is possible.



Last edited by hes; 10/09/19 06:09 PM.
Re: Recommendations for piano with MIDI recording? [Re: itm] #2899159
10/11/19 06:04 AM
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I'll see if I can borrow another USB/MIDI adapter and check it out again.
The issue of latency does raise another question: I would often record a piano piece in several tracks (e.g. playing chords first and adding melody later).Any latency would make that sort of multi-tracking difficult or impossible. Does anyone know of a console piano which can do multi-track MIDI recording?

Re: Recommendations for piano with MIDI recording? [Re: itm] #2899169
10/11/19 07:36 AM
10/11/19 07:36 AM
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The latency is mostly an audio issue since digital device often works with buffers, then the size of the buffer induce latency. There are no such issue with MIDI.

If you plan to use some Android app sound, you may have latency. If you don’t, you will be limited by the sounds of your piano. Some are more limited than other and a full GM bank is not common among digital pianos.


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Re: Recommendations for piano with MIDI recording? [Re: hes] #2899242
10/11/19 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by hes
The notification panel pulls down from the top of screen and one of the notifications should be for usb options

I don't get anything in the notification bar when I connect the USB MIDI device, although a pop-up window appears whenever I connect it, asking me if I want to open Tasker whenever this USB device is connected (so the tablet is definitely detecting that some sort of USB device has been connected).
So I looked in Developer Options...USB Configuration. It was defaulting to MTP (Media Transfer Protocol), but there was also an option for "MIDI", so I selected it (other options were Charging, PTP - Picture Transfer Protocol, RNDIS (USB Ethernet) and Audio source).
I then tried n-Track Studio again - it still didn't seem to detect any MIDI devices. I then downloaded an app called USB MIDI monitor. When I connected the USB/MIDI interface it popped up a window asking me if I wanted to allow the app to access the USB device, which was very promising. It then seemed to capture keystrokes from the piano. So I closed the app and re-opened n-Track Studio. This time when I connected the USB/MIDI interface I got the message: "Connected USB interface requires more power than the Android device may be able to supply. Please consider using an external power supply". It then said that it wanted to do a latency test, but this repeatedly failed with the message "Error during latency estimation procedure, Please repeat the test. If the issue persists, please report us". After 5 or 6 attempts it finally succeeded, and reported a latency figure (which unfortunately I forgot to note). But I couldn't get the app to recognise/record keystrokes from the piano.
So I closed the app, disconnected the USB/MIDI interface, reopened the app and re-attached the USB/MIDI interface. Now it doesn't detect the MIDI device at all.
This is all pointing towards a world of pain :0(

Re: Recommendations for piano with MIDI recording? [Re: itm] #2899245
10/11/19 01:00 PM
10/11/19 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by itm
I'll see if I can borrow another USB/MIDI adapter and check it out again.
The issue of latency does raise another question: I would often record a piano piece in several tracks (e.g. playing chords first and adding melody later).Any latency would make that sort of multi-tracking difficult or impossible. Does anyone know of a console piano which can do multi-track MIDI recording?


The Casio PX-350 and PX-360 have 16-track MIDI recording. I don't know the equivalent console models, but they exist.


. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / Korg Wavedrum / EV ZXA1 speaker
Re: Recommendations for piano with MIDI recording? [Re: Charles Cohen] #2899467
10/12/19 11:23 AM
10/12/19 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Charles Cohen
Originally Posted by itm
I'll see if I can borrow another USB/MIDI adapter and check it out again.
The issue of latency does raise another question: I would often record a piano piece in several tracks (e.g. playing chords first and adding melody later).Any latency would make that sort of multi-tracking difficult or impossible. Does anyone know of a console piano which can do multi-track MIDI recording?


The Casio PX-350 and PX-360 have 16-track MIDI recording. I don't know the equivalent console models, but they exist.


Thanks for that. So it seems that the Casio Privia PX-760 offers 2-track MIDI recording, is a console piano, and is within my price range. Are the Privias decent pianos, in terms of playing and sounding like an acoustic piano?

Re: Recommendations for piano with MIDI recording? [Re: itm] #2899481
10/12/19 12:07 PM
10/12/19 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by itm

Thanks for that. So it seems that the Casio Privia PX-760 offers 2-track MIDI recording, is a console piano, and is within my price range. Are the Privias decent pianos, in terms of playing and sounding like an acoustic piano?


Hmmm....I've just downloaded the manual for the PX-760 and it seems that you can't copy recordings onto a USB memory stick - you have to connect the keyboard to a computer to transfer files
The search continues....

Re: Recommendations for piano with MIDI recording? [Re: itm] #2899503
10/12/19 12:51 PM
10/12/19 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by itm
Originally Posted by itm

Thanks for that. So it seems that the Casio Privia PX-760 offers 2-track MIDI recording, is a console piano, and is within my price range. Are the Privias decent pianos, in terms of playing and sounding like an acoustic piano?


Hmmm....I've just downloaded the manual for the PX-760 and it seems that you can't copy recordings onto a USB memory stick - you have to connect the keyboard to a computer to transfer files
The search continues....


Oh wait....the PX-770 has replaced the PX-760, and DOES seem to have USB memory stick functionality.
So...would anyone care to suggest how a 2019 Casio PX-770 might compare with a 20-year-old Clavinova CLP-350? (for acoustic piano sound and feel)

Re: Recommendations for piano with MIDI recording? [Re: itm] #2899508
10/12/19 01:08 PM
10/12/19 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by itm
So...would anyone care to suggest how a 2019 Casio PX-770 might compare with a 20-year-old Clavinova CLP-350? (for acoustic piano sound and feel)


The CLP-350 was actually introduced in 1988, so it's a 31 years old model.

Casio will sound more realistic and the action is different, but it's difficult to say if it's better. Probably in some ways and not in others.

Re: Recommendations for piano with MIDI recording? [Re: itm] #2899617
10/12/19 08:50 PM
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FWIW --

The PX-780 was the "console version" of the PX-350 -- over 300 "tones", and a 16-track MIDI recorder. There should be a "console" model of the PX-360 -- it'll have a color touch-screen display. I don't know its model number.

On my PX-350, you can record MIDI onto "Songs" in the DP, and then copy that "Song" onto the USB thumb drive. (I haven't tested that, but the manual is very clear.) I assume the PX-780, and "console" PX-360, are the same.

So it's one extra step . . .


You should try out one of the current-generation Casio console pianos. I think they have the same action as my PX-350. IMHO it's better than the Yamaha GHS action. But I have no idea how the CLP-350 keyboard feels, or whether you'll like the Casio.

The newest "slab" Casio's (S1000 and S3000) have a different action.


. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / Korg Wavedrum / EV ZXA1 speaker
Re: Recommendations for piano with MIDI recording? [Re: itm] #2899618
10/12/19 09:09 PM
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The Casio AP-650 seems to be the "Celviano" (fancy cabinet) version of the PX-350.

For the PX-360 (newer, and better version of the PX-350 slab piano), as a "console" piano, you might ask Piano Man Chuck, or Tim Praskins at:

AZpianonews.com


. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / Korg Wavedrum / EV ZXA1 speaker
Re: Recommendations for piano with MIDI recording? [Re: itm] #2899686
10/13/19 07:51 AM
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Ah OK I guess that a modern Casio will have no problems at least matching the sound and feel of my CLP-350. The AP-650 and PX-780 both sound like good potential second-hand purchases.
What's the difference between the PX range and the AP range?

Re: Recommendations for piano with MIDI recording? [Re: itm] #2899833
10/13/19 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by itm
Ah OK I guess that a modern Casio will have no problems at least matching the sound and feel of my CLP-350. The AP-650 and PX-780 both sound like good potential second-hand purchases.
What's the difference between the PX range and the AP range?


A PX-780 would give you Line Out jacks, Line In jacks, and MIDI In/Out jacks (as well as "MIDI-over-USB"). Read the manual, see if the MIDI recorder seems like what you want.

As far as I know, the differences between "model lines" are in loudspeakers, amps, and cabinets. The "tri-sensor keyboard" has been around for maybe 5 years, in many models. Casio re-packages the electronics; there are fewer motherboards, than there are models.

Some of the PX- models are "slab pianos", others have simple cabinets. I'm pretty sure that you can get wooden cabinets, even for the slabs (PX-350 / PX-360, etc). The AP- series look more like "console pianos".

I'd guess that the Casio's will have better sound samples -- in particular, longer sustain -- than the CLP-350. Memory has gotten much cheaper, so the makers can use longer sustain samples, and decay them more slowly. "String resonance" has recently become available. IMHO, it's a valuable feature, if you want to simulate an acoustic piano. (PX-350 doesn't have it, and I think neither does the PX-780).

What hasn't changed much in twenty years, is loudspeaker design. It'll be interested to get your opinions on the comparison, when you try a Casio (or some other current-generation DP's).


. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / Korg Wavedrum / EV ZXA1 speaker
Re: Recommendations for piano with MIDI recording? [Re: itm] #2900107
10/14/19 12:19 PM
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So the PX-780 sounds perfect. I've been trying to find one, but I can't find anywhere in the UK that sells them. Does anyone know if there's an equivalent model in the UK?

Re: Recommendations for piano with MIDI recording? [Re: itm] #2900217
10/14/19 06:17 PM
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The PX-780 might be out of production.

I suggest phoning or e-mailing Bonner's (a large-scale Casio dealer) and enquiring about available Casio models that give you multi-track MIDI recording in a "console" format.

I bet there's a PX-360 (slab piano format) equivalent, in a cabinet, that will do what you need. But I don't know its model number.

I'm not sure if Yamaha packages the DGX-660 in a "cabinet" model. It might also suit your needs.


. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / Korg Wavedrum / EV ZXA1 speaker
Re: Recommendations for piano with MIDI recording? [Re: itm] #2900671
Yesterday at 05:19 AM
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Sadly Bonners have broken the bad news:
"None of the Casio console-style models available in this country have multitrack MIDI recording, I'm afraid. Not even the premium Grand Hybrid models. The only Casio instrument I can find that has it is the PX560M, which is a portable piano - and it's blue!"
:0(

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