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Re: Do music examiners care about heavily marked music scores? [Re: Ijustplaypiano] #2899107
10/10/19 09:41 PM
10/10/19 09:41 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 7,043
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
Tyrone Slothrop  Online Content

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Originally Posted by Ijustplaypiano
Unfortunately RCM does not allow photocopied music, even if you photocopy from a book you already bought. It sucks, but that’s just how it works. They just won’t accept photocopied music😕

Do they want you to bring the book with the etudes also? Or only for the repertoire?

Most of the RCM repertoire selections are not in the RCM repertoire book. I imagine some people may be bringing loose sheet music for some of the pieces, including popular selection pieces, although not photocopies of course.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
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Re: Do music examiners care about heavily marked music scores? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2899120
10/10/19 10:27 PM
10/10/19 10:27 PM
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 26
Seattle, Washington
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Ijustplaypiano Online content OP
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Seattle, Washington
Yes they require you to bring officially published scores of all pieces. I have the RCM 10 etude book and I’m working on Chopin etude opus 25 no 2. So far it has survived with no markings, a personal record for me. 🤣 I don’t bother with buying the repertoire book because it only includes a limited amount of pieces out of all the pieces you can choose in the syllabi. If you’re curious on the books I’m using here they are:
Henle- Beethoven sonata
Henle- well tempered clavier
Paderewski edition- Chopin nocturnes and polonaises
RCM 10 etude book-level 10 etudes


Working on:
Preparing for RCM 10 piano exam
Chopin etude op. 25 no 2
Beethoven sonata op 28 pastorale
Bach WTC
Some Chopin nocturnes
Re: Do music examiners care about heavily marked music scores? [Re: Ijustplaypiano] #2899147
10/11/19 02:26 AM
10/11/19 02:26 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,229
Orange County, CA
AZNpiano Offline
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Your pages are barely marked. BARELY.

No examiner should be bothered by those markings. The notes are clearly readable.


Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member
Re: Do music examiners care about heavily marked music scores? [Re: Ijustplaypiano] #2899193
10/11/19 09:21 AM
10/11/19 09:21 AM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 354
Texas
Dr. Rogers Offline
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Texas
A few thoughts regarding downloads/copies and the marking of scores:

I invested in a comb binder machine. It only cost about $100, and that was some of the best $100 I've ever spent! I absolutely love it. It gives me so much flexibility to slice and dice music however I want, and I can quickly and easily prepare custom music books for my students. My teacher (a retired conservatory department chair whom I affectionately call the Professor) loves them, too.

For instance, I am currently working up a programme for the ARSM diploma. It consists of a Bach Prelude and Fugue (from a public domain edition on IMSLP which happens to be the Professor's preferred edition), a Beethoven Sonata (from a Henle digital edition that I also own in clothbound), a Chopin mazurka (for which I bought a hefty book), and a Debussy prelude (from a public domain edition on IMSLP, but silly me I bought the latest Durand edition just to have it).

What I did here was print out the Bach, Beethoven, and Debussy, and photocopy the Chopin. I have access to a high-end laser printer that can easily print or copy pages front-and back. I designed a simple but decent cover in a word processor and printed that out. Then I used my comb binder to bind it all together with a heavy translucent plastic front cover and heavy cardstock back cover.

Viola et bien, I only have to carry a single, convenient, lightweight volume to and from the Professor's house every week rather than a heavy, bulky volumes of Bach, Beethoven, Chopin, and Debussy.

Furthermore, the Professor is an inveterate scribbler. After letting her scribble up one movement of a Beethoven sonata in an expensive Henle clothbound edition (she did ask my permission as she knew it was an expensive edition), I decided to let her scribble on the printouts and photocopies. On exam day, I'll bring my print editions of Bach and Beethoven (Henle clothbound), Chopin (Alfred comb bound), and Debussy (Durand "perfect" bound - a binding method I hate with a passion).

Now, regarding your teacher's scribbles. In twenty years or so you may find yourself valuing those scribbles more than gold or diamonds. I sure do, whenever I get out any music from my childhood. I miss my former piano teacher dearly. But I also adore my Professor, and I plan on keeping the scribbled-up booklet for the rest of my days. I know that after she's gone, those scribbles will mean as much to me as the music itself - maybe even more.


Austin Rogers, PhD
Music Teacher in Austin, TX
Baldwin SD-10 Concert Grand "Kuroneko", Baldwin Upright, Yamaha P-255
Re: Do music examiners care about heavily marked music scores? [Re: AZNpiano] #2899214
10/11/19 10:24 AM
10/11/19 10:24 AM
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 26
Seattle, Washington
I
Ijustplaypiano Online content OP
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Seattle, Washington
Originally Posted by AZNpiano
Your pages are barely marked. BARELY.

No examiner should be bothered by those markings. The notes are clearly readable.


Oh phew that’s a relief to know.


Working on:
Preparing for RCM 10 piano exam
Chopin etude op. 25 no 2
Beethoven sonata op 28 pastorale
Bach WTC
Some Chopin nocturnes
Re: Do music examiners care about heavily marked music scores? [Re: Dr. Rogers] #2899235
10/11/19 11:47 AM
10/11/19 11:47 AM
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 26
Seattle, Washington
I
Ijustplaypiano Online content OP
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Ijustplaypiano  Online Content OP
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Joined: Sep 2019
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Seattle, Washington
Originally Posted by Dr. Rogers
A few thoughts regarding downloads/copies and the marking of scores:

I invested in a comb binder machine. It only cost about $100, and that was some of the best $100 I've ever spent! I absolutely love it. It gives me so much flexibility to slice and dice music however I want, and I can quickly and easily prepare custom music books for my students. My teacher (a retired conservatory department chair whom I affectionately call the Professor) loves them, too.

For instance, I am currently working up a programme for the ARSM diploma. It consists of a Bach Prelude and Fugue (from a public domain edition on IMSLP which happens to be the Professor's preferred edition), a Beethoven Sonata (from a Henle digital edition that I also own in clothbound), a Chopin mazurka (for which I bought a hefty book), and a Debussy prelude (from a public domain edition on IMSLP, but silly me I bought the latest Durand edition just to have it).

What I did here was print out the Bach, Beethoven, and Debussy, and photocopy the Chopin. I have access to a high-end laser printer that can easily print or copy pages front-and back. I designed a simple but decent cover in a word processor and printed that out. Then I used my comb binder to bind it all together with a heavy translucent plastic front cover and heavy cardstock back cover.

Viola et bien, I only have to carry a single, convenient, lightweight volume to and from the Professor's house every week rather than a heavy, bulky volumes of Bach, Beethoven, Chopin, and Debussy.

Furthermore, the Professor is an inveterate scribbler. After letting her scribble up one movement of a Beethoven sonata in an expensive Henle clothbound edition (she did ask my permission as she knew it was an expensive edition), I decided to let her scribble on the printouts and photocopies. On exam day, I'll bring my print editions of Bach and Beethoven (Henle clothbound), Chopin (Alfred comb bound), and Debussy (Durand "perfect" bound - a binding method I hate with a passion).

Now, regarding your teacher's scribbles. In twenty years or so you may find yourself valuing those scribbles more than gold or diamonds. I sure do, whenever I get out any music from my childhood. I miss my former piano teacher dearly. But I also adore my Professor, and I plan on keeping the scribbled-up booklet for the rest of my days. I know that after she's gone, those scribbles will mean as much to me as the music itself - maybe even more.


That comb binder machine seems very useful and I can see what you mean by putting sheet music together. But I’m not sure how to convince my parents to buy one so for now I just have to resort to taping loose papers together. I never do this for exams, only for more casual performances.


Working on:
Preparing for RCM 10 piano exam
Chopin etude op. 25 no 2
Beethoven sonata op 28 pastorale
Bach WTC
Some Chopin nocturnes
Re: Do music examiners care about heavily marked music scores? [Re: Ijustplaypiano] #2899300
10/11/19 04:15 PM
10/11/19 04:15 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 866
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Nordomus Offline
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 866
100$? Seriously? I got mine for about 20$ smile Anyway I agree- money well spent.

Re: Do music examiners care about heavily marked music scores? [Re: Ijustplaypiano] #2899308
10/11/19 04:29 PM
10/11/19 04:29 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 118
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spk Offline
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I wouldn’t worry about the markings on the score.

The examiners know most of the syllabus pieces so well they probably don’t even need the score really to evaluate the performance.

Re: Do music examiners care about heavily marked music scores? [Re: Dr. Rogers] #2899311
10/11/19 04:36 PM
10/11/19 04:36 PM
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 6
Bay Area, CA
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DSC Offline
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Bay Area, CA
Originally Posted by Dr. Rogers


.......

Now, regarding your teacher's scribbles. In twenty years or so you may find yourself valuing those scribbles more than gold or diamonds. I sure do, whenever I get out any music from my childhood. I miss my former piano teacher dearly. But I also adore my Professor, and I plan on keeping the scribbled-up booklet for the rest of my days. I know that after she's gone, those scribbles will mean as much to me as the music itself - maybe even more.


This is very true for me. I recently went home and collected all the books/sheet music that I used ~40 years ago when i was a young piano student. It's amusing to see what issues I had with each piece then, as I have completely different issues with the same piece all these years later as I try to recapture my ability from all those years ago.

Re: Do music examiners care about heavily marked music scores? [Re: spk] #2899335
10/11/19 05:24 PM
10/11/19 05:24 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 7,043
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
Tyrone Slothrop  Online Content

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Posts: 7,043
Originally Posted by spk
The examiners know most of the syllabus pieces so well they probably don’t even need the score really to evaluate the performance.

This may be true for ABRSM. However, I'm skeptical this is true for RCM. Not only are there 5-6 times as many repertoire pieces allowed for each level of RCM, for each level, there may be some substitutions for popular selection pieces, which adds a large number of additional possible pieces. In fact, as mentioned above, the official RCM repertoire books only have a small portion of the allowed pieces.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Do music examiners care about heavily marked music scores? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2899397
10/11/19 11:02 PM
10/11/19 11:02 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,971
Victoria, BC
BruceD Offline
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
[...] However, I'm skeptical this is true for RCM. Not only are there 5-6 times as many repertoire pieces allowed for each level of RCM, for each level, there may be some substitutions for popular selection pieces, which adds a large number of additional possible pieces. In fact, as mentioned above, the official RCM repertoire books only have a small portion of the allowed pieces.


For those who don't know the RCM Syllabus for piano, at level 10 RCM there are 235 repertoire selections over five time periods. One (in some cases two related short pieces) from each period must be chosen, and among the 12 Etudes listed, two must be chosen. No wonder examiners require the scores in the event that someone comes up with one or two of the lesser known works.

Regards,


BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
Re: Do music examiners care about heavily marked music scores? [Re: Ijustplaypiano] #2899408
10/12/19 12:11 AM
10/12/19 12:11 AM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 118
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spk Offline
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Obviously, the examiners can’t be familiar with the the entire syllabus

My point is that the examiners are highly trained and experienced. They probably would know most of the mainstays pretty well. The OP is playing Beethoven, WTC, Chopin and etudes from the RCM book. No big surprises there.

They’ve probably heard the Pastoral a few times. I doubt some markings on the score are going to distract them.

Last edited by spk; 10/12/19 12:16 AM.
Re: Do music examiners care about heavily marked music scores? [Re: BruceD] #2899416
10/12/19 01:37 AM
10/12/19 01:37 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 7,043
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
Tyrone Slothrop  Online Content

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Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 7,043
Originally Posted by BruceD
For those who don't know the RCM Syllabus for piano, at level 10 RCM there are 235 repertoire selections over five time periods. One (in some cases two related short pieces) from each period must be chosen, and among the 12 Etudes listed, two must be chosen. No wonder examiners require the scores in the event that someone comes up with one or two of the lesser known works.

ABRSM also has a teacher's guide for each grade with some notes on each repertoire piece and some things to watch out for. I haven't seen anything like that for RCM. Probably there are just too many pieces to give teachers or examiners guidance on each piece.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Do music examiners care about heavily marked music scores? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2899523
10/12/19 01:48 PM
10/12/19 01:48 PM
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 26
Seattle, Washington
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Ijustplaypiano Online content OP
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Seattle, Washington
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by BruceD
For those who don't know the RCM Syllabus for piano, at level 10 RCM there are 235 repertoire selections over five time periods. One (in some cases two related short pieces) from each period must be chosen, and among the 12 Etudes listed, two must be chosen. No wonder examiners require the scores in the event that someone comes up with one or two of the lesser known works.

ABRSM also has a teacher's guide for each grade with some notes on each repertoire piece and some things to watch out for. I haven't seen anything like that for RCM. Probably there are just too many pieces to give teachers or examiners guidance on each piece.


That’s why I prefer RCM. ABRSM 8 has a very limited selection of pieces, no doubt examiners are going to mark harder after hearing the same few over and over. I’m genuinely surprised ABRSM didn’t include more Beethoven sonatas in grade 8. The only one is op. 79, I believe. That sonata is listed as grade 9 for RCM.
However I do need to prepare more pieces for RCM. Level 10 is 7 pieces, 5 pieces for repertiore and 2 etudes. ABRSM 8 is only 3 pieces, a much lighter work load.
I think I know what 7 pieces I’m going to prepare. Let me know what you think, are they severely overplayed?
Beethoven- pastorale sonata op 28 1st and 2nd movements
Bach-WTC prelude and fugue in f minor bwv 881
Chopin- nocturne in e minor op post. 72 no 1
Debussy- arabesque no 1
Gallant- 6 variations on land of the silver birch
Chopin- etude op 25 no 2
Burgmuller- that octave etude in e major (someone recommended this to me in a seperate thread)


Working on:
Preparing for RCM 10 piano exam
Chopin etude op. 25 no 2
Beethoven sonata op 28 pastorale
Bach WTC
Some Chopin nocturnes
Re: Do music examiners care about heavily marked music scores? [Re: Ijustplaypiano] #2899525
10/12/19 01:56 PM
10/12/19 01:56 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,971
Victoria, BC
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I think your selection of pieces is just fine for the Level 10 examination. I wouldn't worry too much about some of the selections being overplayed; part of that is due to the level of the pieces in question, as they often come up as possibilities for some examination students who might be approaching Debussy and Chopin (for example) for the first time.

I think that it is more important that you like the pieces you are preparing so that you can spend the right amount of time with them and really "make them your own," as they say, and play them convincingly for the examiner.

Regards,


BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
Re: Do music examiners care about heavily marked music scores? [Re: BruceD] #2899547
10/12/19 03:43 PM
10/12/19 03:43 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,229
Orange County, CA
AZNpiano Offline
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Orange County, CA
Originally Posted by BruceD
I wouldn't worry too much about some of the selections being overplayed

That's my recommendation to anybody who can play the music convincingly and musically. However, many of my former upper level students are very bad students. So I picked the most wayward music possible, because there's no way they can play anything well, and if they play an overplayed piece on top of that, it would spell failure. For these awful students to pass, they will have to bank on the fact that the evaluators don't know the music very well, and thus cannot make too much criticism.


Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member
Re: Do music examiners care about heavily marked music scores? [Re: Ijustplaypiano] #2900243
10/14/19 08:28 PM
10/14/19 08:28 PM
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 26
Seattle, Washington
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Ijustplaypiano Online content OP
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Seattle, Washington
Dear Chopin...

Why.

[Linked Image]upload photos url

I didn’t want to create a new thread, so here’s a random update. After many hours of practice this weekend, I managed to get this etude up to performance speed. This being my first Chopin etude, yeah it took a while. However, I feel like the only times I can play it through with no slips at performance tempo is when I’m properly warmed up and used to the piano. So in the case of recitals and exams I’m just not sure how I’m going to pull it off with no noticeable slips. Any slip in this piece is particularly noticeable considering it’s marked molto legato at a tempo of “presto”. Each slip will be like a hiccup in the smoothness the piece is meant to be played with. Not to mention the added nerves that come with performances. I’m not that heavily affected by nerves, but it certainly does cause some small slips that I otherwise won’t have.
So...am I doomed?

Ps. Short rant. Most of you may know that each Chopin etude has a nickname (I know Chopin didn’t create those nicknames, someone else later did) like torrent (op 10/4) winter wind (25/11) wrong note (25/5) waterfall (10/1) tristesse (10/3) etc. Those seem like pretty cool nicknames right? Imagine how cool it would be to tell another musician “I’m playing the torrent etude”. The etude im playing is nicknamed “the bees”. 😐
I don’t know, I just feel like I’ve been robbed of the coolness factor here. It’s still an amazing etude.


Working on:
Preparing for RCM 10 piano exam
Chopin etude op. 25 no 2
Beethoven sonata op 28 pastorale
Bach WTC
Some Chopin nocturnes
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