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Re: What is the best sampled VST for classical piano?
MacMacMac #2896905 10/03/19 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
In the meantime the choices don't matter much. Fingers on the keys ... that's what matters.

Yes, yes. I have an RCM level 4 exam coming up in December so I certainly have enough fingers on the keys.


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"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: What is the best sampled VST for classical piano?
Tyrone Slothrop #2898354 10/08/19 07:13 PM
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Those who have both VSL Synchron pianos and the Garritan CFX, can you tell me if the VSL pianos are different enough from the Garritan CFX that it might still be worth it for me to get the Garritan CFX if I already have all three of the VSL Synchron pianos? Does it sound different? Is it a worthwhile experience?

Also, anyone who has Yamahas own CFX sound (for example, on the Avantgrands) and also Garritan CFX, can you tell me if these are different enough to be worth the money having Garritan CFX also? (When I was planning on getting Garritan earlier, because it got some many votes from forum members, I hadn't realized I would end up with a DP with a built in CFX voice.)


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: What is the best sampled VST for classical piano?
Tyrone Slothrop #2898376 10/08/19 08:59 PM
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Tyrone, I think it might be interesting to compare different recordings/mixing variations of the same piano.

However, are you really seeking justification from the PianoWorld community to spend more money?


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

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Re: What is the best sampled VST for classical piano?
Kawai James #2898377 10/08/19 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Tyrone, I think it might be interesting to compare different recordings/mixing variations of the same piano.

However, are you really seeking justification from the PianoWorld community to spend more money?

Actually, just the opposite. Garritan was the highest vote getter in my informal poll (above) - not just by a little, but by 14-3 as the next vote getter. However, I just acquired VSL so I'm thinking I've realism covered. So if I don't get Garritan, I'd just spend my money on something else instead. wink Might still be a VST, but maybe a totally different piano, like the Wavesfactory Mercury Fazioli, for example. Anyways, it's easy to buy Garritan since it got so many votes and supporters. It's much harder to decide what to get instead, because of the high probability of ending up with something cr@ppy.


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: What is the best sampled VST for classical piano?
Tyrone Slothrop #2898382 10/08/19 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Those who have both VSL Synchron pianos and the Garritan CFX, can you tell me if the VSL pianos are different enough from the Garritan CFX that it might still be worth it for me to get the Garritan CFX if I already have all three of the VSL Synchron pianos? Does it sound different? Is it a worthwhile experience?

Also, anyone who has Yamahas own CFX sound (for example, on the Avantgrands) and also Garritan CFX, can you tell me if these are different enough to be worth the money having Garritan CFX also? (When I was planning on getting Garritan earlier, because it got some many votes from forum members, I hadn't realized I would end up with a DP with a built in CFX voice.)


Tyrone, all other people's opinions, including experiences, are personal and subjective, and can never replace your own ideas. Now that you have a powerful music workstation, compare them by yourself and use it as a new benchmark for others in the future. May be the best way I think. laugh


CA98+ART RM5~~RME ADI2 DAC
VSL CFX&D274&Bluthner1895, Ivory2 ACD, Galaxy VintageD&StD, Bechstein DG, Embertone 1955Walker
Re: What is the best sampled VST for classical piano?
Tyrone Slothrop #2898383 10/08/19 09:40 PM
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The Garritan CFX is unique to me because its room ambience is very natural and fitting. I personally don't like the Synchron Stage in the VSL pianos, it takes a lot of work to make it sound tolerable. The Abbey Road Studios though sound fabulous in the Garritan piano right out of the box. The two downsides, coming from the VSL pianos, are that the Garritan has a lower dynamic range which you might find distracting, and the room reverb is very prominent, borderline being too much. To me it is beautiful, but plenty of others here have said that it's too much for them. On the other hand, the Garritan CFX is the most evenly playable sampled piano out there. In the Classic mic configuration, there is no note sticking out, no out of tune notes. Everything is as it should be.

I would also advise against getting the Lite version - coming from the VSL pianos, it will most likely be a disappointment as it lacks the room mic and you won't get the full effect of the studio hall. Most people here advise getting the Lite version to upgrade to the Full version later. Coming from VSL, you will most likely not get that much out of the Lite version. But that's just my opinion.

Other than that, ask yourself what it is that you would most likely want to get more of, compared to the VSL. Is it "life" and "tone"? Then it's most likely gonna be the Embertone, but it has some pretty harsh flaws, especially when coming from the VSL offerings, and playability doesn't compare to them.

Is it playability? IMHO the American Concert D has a really great playability, and also the Bechstein Digital. Former seriously lacks in its sustain pedal sound but has half and repedaling, latter requires a beast PC to run properly, but has sustain samples and also has solid playability, but lacks half pedaling or repedaling as far as I'm aware.

OH and wait for a couple of weeks before purchasing anything else, Black Friday is coming!

Last edited by Grazilerimba; 10/08/19 09:42 PM.
Re: What is the best sampled VST for classical piano?
Tyrone Slothrop #2898385 10/08/19 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Also, anyone who has Yamahas own CFX sound (for example, on the Avantgrands) and also Garritan CFX, can you tell me if these are different enough to be worth the money having Garritan CFX also? (When I was planning on getting Garritan earlier, because it got some many votes from forum members, I hadn't realized I would end up with a DP with a built in CFX voice.)


To my ear I prefer Garritan CFX over the native CFX of the N1X by a fairly wide margin. It sounds absolutely glorious on my near field monitors. If I close my eyes I can actually imagine I am playing a CFX at Abbey Road Studios. The atmosphere is superb. I’m so impressed with it I don’t plan to get any other VST.

The weak link is my playing skills. But the beautiful sound motivates me to practice more.


Yamaha N1X, P-515.
Genelec 8331 monitors and 7350 sub.
VI’s: Garritan CFX, VSL Bösendorfer Upright, and VSL Blüthner 1895. Pianoteq.
Re: What is the best sampled VST for classical piano?
Tyrone Slothrop #2898444 10/09/19 03:14 AM
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VST users, do you use internal piano speakers or external monitors/speakers?

Re: What is the best sampled VST for classical piano?
Tyrone Slothrop #2898448 10/09/19 03:41 AM
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As for sampled vst's my opinion has changed.

I now prefer acoustic samples Kawai ex pro over both garritan cfx and ravenscroft.

Somehow i can't get garritan cfx to sound good over my speakers, (jbl lsr305's) and i'm done spending time trying. Strangely it sounds fine over my headphones. So at first i blamed the speakers, but everything else sounds better using them.

Pianoteq sounds good over my speakers while i don't really enjoy the sound with my headphones.


Now Acoustic samples Kawai ex-pro, this one sounds just great over my speakers as well as my headphones. And it's just very realistic, evenly sampled and playable. I think the recording technique/microphones/environment they used is just the best. It's my go to (sampled) piano now. A real joy to play, and that bass end is just amazing. Im wondering about their C7 now, anyone got experience with that?

Also in both garritan cfx and ravenscroft i find some notes stand out/sound a little different than others which can be annoying. None of this in kawai ex pro.

Re: What is the best sampled VST for classical piano?
Tyrone Slothrop #2898466 10/09/19 05:11 AM
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Tyrone Slothrop since I have VSL Synchron Pianos I don't use Garritan CFX or any other

Re: What is the best sampled VST for classical piano?
U3piano #2898471 10/09/19 06:01 AM
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I, too, have fallen away from the Garritan.
Originally Posted by U3piano
I now prefer acoustic samples Kawai ex pro over both garritan cfx and ravenscroft.
Somehow i can't get garritan cfx to sound good over my speakers, (jbl lsr305's) and i'm done spending time trying.
Maybe it's just that I don't like the Yamaha sound?

Regardless, I like the EX Pro better than the Garritan ... and I like the Steinways (Vintage D and Grandeur) much better. Despite their flaws the sound is much more to my liking.

Re: What is the best sampled VST for classical piano?
U3piano #2898473 10/09/19 06:05 AM
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Originally Posted by U3piano
As for sampled vst's my opinion has changed.

I now prefer acoustic samples Kawai ex pro over both garritan cfx and ravenscroft.

Somehow i can't get garritan cfx to sound good over my speakers, (jbl lsr305's) and i'm done spending time trying. Strangely it sounds fine over my headphones. So at first i blamed the speakers, but everything else sounds better using them.

Pianoteq sounds good over my speakers while i don't really enjoy the sound with my headphones.


Now Acoustic samples Kawai ex-pro, this one sounds just great over my speakers as well as my headphones. And it's just very realistic, evenly sampled and playable. I think the recording technique/microphones/environment they used is just the best. It's my go to (sampled) piano now. A real joy to play, and that bass end is just amazing. Im wondering about their C7 now, anyone got experience with that?

Also in both garritan cfx and ravenscroft i find some notes stand out/sound a little different than others which can be annoying. None of this in kawai ex pro.


Yes, the Acoustic Samples Kawai EX Pro really flys under the radar in the sampled piano world. It was produced by Lance Herring, who went on to release the VI Labs True Keys collection (Steinway D, Fazioli 308 & C.Bechstein) & the Ravenscroft 275 grand. He really know his stuff.

Despite the Acoustic Samples Kawai EX Pro being quite old and basic by today's piano sampling standards, it just has a body and presence which is really appealing to me also, and benefits from multiple release samples based on velocity & duration which really helps with the realism. I've used it live and to record with, and it just works. I also have the Acoustic Samples C7 which is very solid & playable, but I play the Kawai EX Pro more often - it just has that something extra smile


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Re: What is the best sampled VST for classical piano?
Tyrone Slothrop #2917905 11/29/19 11:11 PM
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Well, observations about mice and men seem applicable. I now have several more VIs than planned, in addition to the three VSL Synchron pianos, which I bought in September. I guess I will know for myself how these compare to Pianoteq.


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across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: What is the best sampled VST for classical piano?
Tyrone Slothrop #2975987 05/06/20 10:26 PM
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Hi everyone!
I'm thinking about eventually investing in a Steinway sampled VST library when I'm ready to take that hit on my card. So far, I've heard the Synchron Steinway D demos and really marvel at the velocity layers more in number than any other sample libraries out there. But I'm a bit on the fense about it.
I play classical music, with the occasional showtune, little entertainment for friends or whatever just for fun. How do you think the VSL Steinway reacts in terms of playability and controlling? Can it beautifully recreate the acoustic experience? How does it compared to Garritan CFX Concert Grand?
Many thanks! smile
David

Re: What is the best sampled VST for classical piano?
David Lai #2976027 05/07/20 02:27 AM
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David,

I have both Garritan CFX and VSL Concert D-274. I use VSL almost exclusively now.

VSL playability is excellent - almost as good as Pianoteq (which is the gold standard for playability among Piano VSTs, IMHO). It has excellent dynamics as well. Overall, it is an excellent VST. Though, note that it has the sound of the room in which it is recorded 'baked in'. So, make sure you like the sound of it in the demos - especially the demos that are slow music with lingering notes. Because, if you hate the room sound in which it is recorded - you will be disappointed. I am not a big fan of the room acoustics - I would prefer a much drier sound. But, this is still my go-to VST for its playability and timbre.

Re: Garritan CFX - it is an excellent VSL as well. Very good playability. And, the sound is to die for. Very sweet. You can't go wrong with either of this. I just personally prefer the timbre of the VSL over CFX. Also, the CFX has the Abbey Road studio room sound 'baked in'. For practicing at home, I find there is too much reverb, even in the close samples. Also, there are reports of noise in Garritan CFX in this forum (which I personally haven't noticed) - FYI.

I have both and plan to keep Garritan CFX even though I am mostly playing VSL. Garritan might be an excellent choice for some recordings.


Osho


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Kawai Novus NV10 + VST. Current VST favorites (in the order of preference): VSL Synchron Concert D//Garritan CFX/Pianoteq 6/Embertone Walker D Full

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Re: What is the best sampled VST for classical piano?
Tyrone Slothrop #2976072 05/07/20 06:50 AM
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Osho, you say Pianoteq is the ‘gold standard for playability’. Of course, you’re correct, but just imagine where Pianoteq7 will take things. I truly believe it will spell the beginning of the end for sampled pianos! Actually, I think that might’ve started with Pianoteq6 but 7 will finish the job!

Re: What is the best sampled VST for classical piano?
Pete14 #2976080 05/07/20 07:28 AM
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Curious ...
Originally Posted by Pete14
Osho, you say Pianoteq is the ‘gold standard for playability’. Of course, you’re correct, but just imagine where Pianoteq7 will take things. I truly believe it will spell the beginning of the end for sampled pianos! Actually, I think that might’ve started with Pianoteq6 but 7 will finish the job!
Most samplers sound better than Pianoteq. Pianoteq must first make itself sound right before it can "spell the beginning of the end for sampled pianos".

But several years ago they diverted off course. They decided to make many different piano brands (Steinway, Bluthner, Steingraber, etc.), none of which sound good, and all of which take resources away from making at least one piano that sounds good.

Re: What is the best sampled VST for classical piano?
Tyrone Slothrop #2976092 05/07/20 08:21 AM
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I think the playability of the VSL pianos is better than Pianoteq.

Re: What is the best sampled VST for classical piano?
Tyrone Slothrop #2976095 05/07/20 08:25 AM
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Mac, I agree with you on that: ‘too many instruments’. I have no idea what they’re trying to prove there. Just recently they came out with another ‘collection’ of so-called vintage (or whatever they call it) instruments; when the reality is that we just want/need a few of the top-notch pianos; which they do offer; but yes, perhaps more attention should go towards the few that matter instead of adding more and more brands/collections.

Re: What is the best sampled VST for classical piano?
Tyrone Slothrop #2976100 05/07/20 08:40 AM
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Maybe artificial intelligence is the future. A modelling piano software that models the sound to sound like a piano that it has "heard".

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