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Re: Ethical question about recording for recitals [Re: patH] #2896948
10/04/19 03:35 AM
10/04/19 03:35 AM
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Norway
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Ganddalf Offline
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I use recordings all the time during the learning process, because this helps me identify the things I have to work more on. I'm never able to make a recording I'm really satisfied with, but when I have practiced a piece to "acceptable" level, I usually consider the recording ready for submission. I never edit my recordings.

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Re: Ethical question about recording for recitals [Re: mr_super-hunky] #2897007
10/04/19 09:56 AM
10/04/19 09:56 AM
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 213
USA
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JJHLH Offline
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Originally Posted by mr_super-hunky
Originally Posted by bSharp(C)yclist
Perhaps we can call it a Piano Workshop instead, to show our snapshot in time. I will be participating in monthly workshops and it's exactly that. If you only know half the piece, you just play half!


This is a great concept and is what our monthly Piano Bar is set up for. It is a casual setting where you can sit down and submit anything you want. Finished or not, an actual piece or just musical nonsense, it doesn't matter. Whatever you feel like doing or submitting.

But when you have a piece that is complete and finished that you are willing to perform for others,....that is what the recital is for.


Where is the Piano Bar loacated? That sounds very interesting.


Yamaha N1X, P-515. Garritan CFX. Genelec 8331 monitors.
Re: Ethical question about recording for recitals [Re: JJHLH] #2897030
10/04/19 11:07 AM
10/04/19 11:07 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,310
Georgia, USA
Sam S Offline

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Originally Posted by JJHLH
Originally Posted by mr_super-hunky
Originally Posted by bSharp(C)yclist
Perhaps we can call it a Piano Workshop instead, to show our snapshot in time. I will be participating in monthly workshops and it's exactly that. If you only know half the piece, you just play half!


This is a great concept and is what our monthly Piano Bar is set up for. It is a casual setting where you can sit down and submit anything you want. Finished or not, an actual piece or just musical nonsense, it doesn't matter. Whatever you feel like doing or submitting.

But when you have a piece that is complete and finished that you are willing to perform for others,....that is what the recital is for.


Where is the Piano Bar loacated? That sounds very interesting.



Anyone who is interested and has something to share (like you!) can start the monthly piano bar thread. I don't see one for this month yet - go for it!

Sam

Re: Ethical question about recording for recitals [Re: patH] #2897152
10/04/19 08:24 PM
10/04/19 08:24 PM
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Posts: 3,026
Maine
Peyton Offline
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My general feel for it is that it's a recital... in any recital the performance is live and you live with the mistakes. In less you are a pro there will be mistakes (and I'm sure they make them as well). I think we should try our best and just accept our performance, mistakes and all.


"Nothing moves...where would it go?"
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Re: Ethical question about recording for recitals [Re: patH] #2897158
10/04/19 10:09 PM
10/04/19 10:09 PM
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Auckland, New Zealand
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Ted Offline
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I use Audacity to trim the beginnings and endings of my recordings and to improve the stereo balance. The only times I have edited an improvisation recording posted on the internet were on the rare occasions my phone rang or someone arrived at the door. When that happens I can usually remember where I was, carry on after the interruption, then delete the appropriate section at zero crossings in the finished file. However, I doubt this constitutes editing as implied in this thread, and I wouldn't do it at all with repertoire.


"We shall always love the music of the masters, but they are all dead and now it's our turn." - Llewelyn Jones, my piano teacher
Re: Ethical question about recording for recitals [Re: KevinM] #2897173
10/04/19 11:54 PM
10/04/19 11:54 PM
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Posts: 3,535
Australia
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earlofmar Offline
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Originally Posted by KevinM
This is just my opinion. I think you can do as many takes as you like to get a decent recording, and that is already a lot easier compared to doing a live recital. But editing a take I think is a step too far.



+1

if I were to see someone had edited their recital piece I would not know where, or by how much. I might still listen to their piece but the whole listening experience would somehow be tainted for me.


Following Trying to follow the Ling Ling 40 hour method

Kawai K8 & Kawai Novus NV10


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Re: Ethical question about recording for recitals [Re: Peyton] #2897243
10/05/19 09:24 AM
10/05/19 09:24 AM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 3,131
In the Ozarks of Missouri
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Originally Posted by Peyton
My general feel for it is that it's a recital... in any recital the performance is live and you live with the mistakes. In less you are a pro there will be mistakes (and I'm sure they make them as well). I think we should try our best and just accept our performance, mistakes and all.



I agree with this!


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Re: Ethical question about recording for recitals [Re: patH] #2897333
10/05/19 02:41 PM
10/05/19 02:41 PM
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Posts: 7,855
Northern England.
peterws Offline
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Northern England.
I reckon if you're honest about it, then why not edit? It's your best shot at that time, and you want it listenable. I did it once, the piece was long and hard, but I manged a single take later which I re-listed.
Actually, the pros do this all the time in recordings. Several takes are expertly spliced to give the best results. But that's not a recital, of course. Nor are most of us pros.
A bit of give and take, guys! A one-take recital would be out of the question for most of us.


"I am not a man. I am a free number"

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Re: Ethical question about recording for recitals [Re: patH] #2897366
10/05/19 04:00 PM
10/05/19 04:00 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,026
Maine
Peyton Offline
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Well, each to his or her own. But I would agree with what was said earlier, that if someone does edit their performance it should be mentioned. But I would still not call that a "recital piece". It would be as if you bought a live performance of Pletniev, only it was edited later so we did not hear what the audience heard. If it's a" recital" then I want to hear it, mistakes and all. If I want to hear the piece played perfectly then I'll buy a recording. Just my 2 cents....


"Nothing moves...where would it go?"
www.youtube.com/Biffer5
www.peytonart.com

Re: Ethical question about recording for recitals [Re: peterws] #2897468
10/06/19 01:57 AM
10/06/19 01:57 AM
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Posts: 4,368
mr_super-hunky Offline
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[quote=peterws]I reckon if you're honest about it, then why not edit?

Because it's not wanted and counter-productive to the goal of becoming a more proficient piano player/performer which is what we are trying to do here.

I do however understand where you are coming from.

I once recorded a recital piece that was absolutely perfect [for me at the time]. Only problem was it had that [only] one blaringly obvious mistake that others may never notice. But it bugged the crap out of me! I couldn't stand listening to it as I knew I COULD play this correctly! I just didn't at the time. If only I could just correct that one simple mistake and not only 'save' this recording [as opposed to hating it], but it would become one of my best submissions ever. A difficult piece performed very well with [one] No mistakes!

I hear you and can understand. I think we all can.

So rather than eliminate the possibility of editing your submission, we purposely left the wording to read that editing your submission is "strongly discouraged". That way, in that super-rare instance that you feel it is justified to edit a mistake out,...you can. Disclose that you did and everything is fine as this is the way the recitals were designed to function. For that rare, once in a while mistake. We've all been there.

But doing this more than occasionally is going down the wrong path. If people find themselves doing this on an ongoing basis then they are establishing a pattern of behavior that we are trying to discourage here.

Occasionally [at most] is understandable. More than that is "strongly discouraged" as stated.

Most should hopefully understand this as well as respect it. It's tricky to satisfy everyone while still trying to achieve your originally stated goal. All things considered, this is what we came up with. And all things considered, I think the rules are very reasonable as everyone's viewpoint was taken into consideration and no one was excluded for any reason.

Last edited by mr_super-hunky; 10/06/19 02:04 AM.
Re: Ethical question about recording for recitals [Re: mr_super-hunky] #2897477
10/06/19 02:36 AM
10/06/19 02:36 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 7,855
Northern England.
peterws Offline
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Northern England.
Originally Posted by mr_super-hunky
[quote=peterws]I reckon if you're honest about it, then why not edit?

Because it's not wanted and counter-productive to the goal of becoming a more proficient piano player/performer which is what we are trying to do here.

I do however understand where you are coming from.

I once recorded a recital piece that was absolutely perfect [for me at the time]. Only problem was it had that [only] one blaringly obvious mistake that others may never notice. But it bugged the crap out of me! I couldn't stand listening to it as I knew I COULD play this correctly! I just didn't at the time. If only I could just correct that one simple mistake and not only 'save' this recording [as opposed to hating it], but it would become one of my best submissions ever. A difficult piece performed very well with [one] No mistakes!

I hear you and can understand. I think we all can.

So rather than eliminate the possibility of editing your submission, we purposely left the wording to read that editing your submission is "strongly discouraged". That way, in that super-rare instance that you feel it is justified to edit a mistake out,...you can. Disclose that you did and everything is fine as this is the way the recitals were designed to function. For that rare, once in a while mistake. We've all been there.

But doing this more than occasionally is going down the wrong path. If people find themselves doing this on an ongoing basis then they are establishing a pattern of behavior that we are trying to discourage here.

Occasionally [at most] is understandable. More than that is "strongly discouraged" as stated.

Most should hopefully understand this as well as respect it. It's tricky to satisfy everyone while still trying to achieve your originally stated goal. All things considered, this is what we came up with. And all things considered, I think the rules are very reasonable as everyone's viewpoint was taken into consideration and no one was excluded for any reason.


Maybe these rules shuld be set in stone, maybe not. I think we all strive to this end anyway and accept the slip ups with a genial grimace . . . .ultimately, some of us run out of patience, or take it out on the dog . . . . .


"I am not a man. I am a free number"

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Re: Ethical question about recording for recitals [Re: patH] #2897483
10/06/19 03:15 AM
10/06/19 03:15 AM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,368
mr_super-hunky Offline
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The red recording dot is pure evil.

It brings out the worst in people. Turn on the red dot and watch your polished performance go all to heck. But it doesn't stop there. Not only do you now have a crappy recording due to the stress of "The Dot", your next move is to consider committing some Tom-Foolery to cover your mistakes. Plus you're all pissed off to boot!

I'm telling you, it's the red dots fault.

No need to scrutinize the recital rules as they're not the problem. Knowing that that stupid 'red-dot' is on,...flashing,...and RED, is!

It seems to make people who are in the act of recording a piece go bananas. Kinda like one of those ground mole/weasel electronic pulse things that drive 'em nuts.

I'm thinking of starting a grass roots effort to change the color of the industry standard "Raging Red" recording dot to a more calming Nordic blue. Much more relaxing and less stressful .

Re: Ethical question about recording for recitals [Re: patH] #2897492
10/06/19 03:48 AM
10/06/19 03:48 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,535
Australia
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earlofmar Offline
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Australia
the recitals are already intimidating enough for beginners, and it is not helped by some of the wonderful playing by long term participants. Somehow it is strangely comforting, and perhaps even solidifies the community spirit among us, to hear one of the better players make a mistake. So, I will be continuing to make really bad recordings and butcher everything that is sacred........for the good of the many smirk


Following Trying to follow the Ling Ling 40 hour method

Kawai K8 & Kawai Novus NV10


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Re: Ethical question about recording for recitals [Re: patH] #2897563
10/06/19 09:38 AM
10/06/19 09:38 AM
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Posts: 6,623
Santa Fe, NM
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I'll confess - one of my submissions has a mistake - on the very last note. I don't even remember which one it was now.

C'est la vie.

If you heard me live that's exactly what you'd hear. I'm off this morning to another gig filled with, with luck, recoveries from mistakes. With no luck - well, there's always next time smile

I like the recitals - a snapshot of where we are now. The best we can do given the circumstances. No need to apologize. No need to feel bad about the mistakes. It's the music that counts. No need to feel bad about anything - everyone's doing the best they can.

(P.S. And actually, sometimes I'm not at my best, either. I need *some* down time!)

Last edited by jotur; 10/06/19 09:40 AM.

Cathy
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Re: Ethical question about recording for recitals [Re: patH] #2897604
10/06/19 12:21 PM
10/06/19 12:21 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,019
Germany
patH Online content OP

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Germany
Just uploaded my submission for the Northern Themed Recital.
It was the 4th complete take, and the only editing was trimming and normalizing the volume with Audacity.

The performance was not perfect, but acceptable in my opinion.
So all is good. smile

Last edited by patH; 10/06/19 12:23 PM.

My grand piano is a Yamaha C2 SG.
Re: Ethical question about recording for recitals [Re: mr_super-hunky] #2897606
10/06/19 12:27 PM
10/06/19 12:27 PM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 7,855
Northern England.
peterws Offline
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Posts: 7,855
Northern England.
Originally Posted by mr_super-hunky
The red recording dot is pure evil.

It brings out the worst in people. Turn on the red dot and watch your polished performance go all to heck. But it doesn't stop there. Not only do you now have a crappy recording due to the stress of "The Dot", your next move is to consider committing some Tom-Foolery to cover your mistakes. Plus you're all pissed off to boot!

I'm telling you, it's the red dots fault.

No need to scrutinize the recital rules as they're not the problem. Knowing that that stupid 'red-dot' is on,...flashing,...and RED, is!

It seems to make people who are in the act of recording a piece go bananas. Kinda like one of those ground mole/weasel electronic pulse things that drive 'em nuts.

I'm thinking of starting a grass roots effort to change the color of the industry standard "Raging Red" recording dot to a more calming Nordic blue. Much more relaxing and less stressful .

Especially when a car pulls up in front of you with those blues and twos. Very relaxing, officer! How can I help you? (cheesy grin)


"I am not a man. I am a free number"

"[Linked Image]"
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