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Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: puremusic] #2896577
10/02/19 08:17 PM
10/02/19 08:17 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
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Tyrone Slothrop Online content
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Originally Posted by puremusic
I was hoping the update would fix the static sound bug I get with this instrument that makes it unplayable, but nope, still unplayable. At least I only sprung for the lite version.

What bug is this? Have you reported it to the company?


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Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: Gabriel Hikaru] #2896587
10/02/19 11:05 PM
10/02/19 11:05 PM
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Posts: 250
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puremusic Offline
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Yup.

There's a crackle/pop after each key press. Another fellow had the same problem.


Roland FP-90 - Touchkeys - TEC BC - MIDI Expression
Kontakt - Arturia Piano V - Sonivox Eighty-Eight - Spitfire Symphony Orchestra

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Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: Grazilerimba] #2896590
10/02/19 11:59 PM
10/02/19 11:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 13
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Wolfram Offline
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Originally Posted by Grazilerimba
Yes, and I think that's because your velocity response is too flat. Try changing the start and end point values of the lines. Someone else can explain it much better but what I mean is, try to configure it so that your highest velocity is not 127, but, say, 100 or so. Or try putting the lowest velocity not at 1, but at perhaps 25. See if that changes anything, and then take it from there.


Exactly what I am trying to achieve, but no clue how to do it.

I know, that my keyboard (my old and still beloved GT-2) sends in a velocity range between circa 10-100. Its easy to set this lowest and highest value in some other VST's. For example in the Ravenscroft, where I get in combination with a slightly bended curve a very playable result with a satisfying dynamic range.
But I don't understand how to use the velocity and volume sliders here to get such results. Any help on this is appreciated.

Thanks, Wolfram

Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: Gabriel Hikaru] #2896600
10/03/19 02:15 AM
10/03/19 02:15 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 101
Tenerife-Canary Island-Spain
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sorrownightingale Offline
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I sent a request to Embertone for it, let's wait to see what they answer (I also sent them the recording).
Grazilerimba your configuration proposal ( velocity setting 25-100) the only thing it does is ratify my opinion. Here the natural dynamic of a piano does not exist!!

Last edited by sorrownightingale; 10/03/19 02:16 AM.
Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: puremusic] #2896617
10/03/19 04:09 AM
10/03/19 04:09 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,657
Raleigh, North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline
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This sounds less like a problem with the Embertone and more like a problem in the audio chain.
Originally Posted by puremusic
There's a crackle/pop after each key press. Another fellow had the same problem.
What kind of computer are you using?
What audio interface?
Do you use ASIO interface software?
If you're running Windows without ASIO ... that's likely the cause.
If you are using ASIO, what settings are you using?

Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: Gabriel Hikaru] #2896619
10/03/19 04:09 AM
10/03/19 04:09 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 333
Cali
Terry Michael Offline
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Cali
You guys who are getting the snap crackle and pops. Are using a DAW to host? Could it be a buffer setting? Try increasing it.


TH
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Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: Gabriel Hikaru] #2896721
10/03/19 10:20 AM
10/03/19 10:20 AM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 153
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bsntn99 Offline
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I have the Lite version and played around with the update a bit last night. The half pedaling uses a fade out function in Kontakt and has five different levels in the scripting at least in the Lite version. It seems to engage at about half way down on the pedal and then lifting off incrementally will shift to one of the other five levels with progressively shorter fade times. It works whether engaging the pedal first then striking a key or if you strike a key first and then engage the pedal. For me the half pedal window is a little narrow. I may try to widen it a bit.

The half pedal script is only a few lines and I'm a bit befuddled why it took a year and half to release this. Could of been written in a day or less. I'm not surprised with the heavy cpu load since the scripting is very inefficient as the developer chose to break all the samples into six different interleaved groups in the full version, two in the Lite. With better scripting it should be very easy to get all the mics into one instrument as I have seen this done with other libraries and recent versions of Kontakt have greatly expanded the number of samples and groups you can have. As I suggested before, an 'eco' version and a full version with all the mics would make more sense and use less cpu. On the plus side you can choose which mics you want to pay for with the full version.

In the end for me, I'm underwhelmed with what has been accomplished in a year and half. I'm still not enamored to the overall sound. Because of the way it is scripted, the velocity curve is not very smooth and I can pick up noticeable jumps. There is a certain unevenness to this library that I find distracting. Also, the attack is a little hard for my taste. I probably will stay away from upgrading to the full version unless a fire sale comes along.

If you are having problems with crackles and pops, as suggested make sure you are using an ASIO interface and not running any other software in the background. Make sure to turn off any real time anti-virus software as this messes with the streaming. You should be using an SSD not a hard drive for this library. You can try increasing the pre-load buffer size as well. I run this library with these changes in place and a minimum pre-load buffer on a 4 gHz i7 Intel cpu under windows 10 without any issues.

Last edited by bsntn99; 10/03/19 10:29 AM.
Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: MacMacMac] #2896740
10/03/19 11:16 AM
10/03/19 11:16 AM
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 250
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puremusic Offline
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Originally Posted by Terry Michael
You guys who are getting the snap crackle and pops. Are using a DAW to host? Could it be a buffer setting? Try increasing it.


Originally Posted by MacMacMac
This sounds less like a problem with the Embertone and more like a problem in the audio chain.
Originally Posted by puremusic
There's a crackle/pop after each key press. Another fellow had the same problem.
What kind of computer are you using?
What audio interface?
Do you use ASIO interface software?
If you're running Windows without ASIO ... that's likely the cause.
If you are using ASIO, what settings are you using?



Been there, done all that, don't need the troubleshooting help though thanks. Experienced user with a top flight machine here and an RME card, all my hundreds of other Kontakt instruments work fine.


Roland FP-90 - Touchkeys - TEC BC - MIDI Expression
Kontakt - Arturia Piano V - Sonivox Eighty-Eight - Spitfire Symphony Orchestra

whitepianos.blogspot.com
Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: Gabriel Hikaru] #2896749
10/03/19 11:39 AM
10/03/19 11:39 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 101
Tenerife-Canary Island-Spain
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sorrownightingale Offline
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Puremusic ...I have the same here crackles and pops!!. Also, after the response from Embertone support I have completely uninstalled Embertone Walker from my SSD, so I confirm what I said previously...this piano is useless ( a toy piano).

Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: bsntn99] #2896753
10/03/19 11:51 AM
10/03/19 11:51 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 617
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slobajudge Offline
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Originally Posted by bsntn99
The half pedal script is only a few lines and I'm a bit befuddled why it took a year and half to release this. Could of been written in a day or less.

I don`t think they sleep in front of script for a year and half. Maybe they are doing something more in their lives.

Originally Posted by bsntn99
I'm not surprised with the heavy cpu load since the scripting is very inefficient as the developer chose to break all the samples into six different interleaved groups in the full version, two in the Lite. With better scripting it should be very easy to get all the mics into one instrument as I have seen this done with other libraries and recent versions of Kontakt have greatly expanded the number of samples and groups you can have. As I suggested before, an 'eco' version and a full version with all the mics would make more sense and use less cpu. On the plus side you can choose which mics you want to pay for with the full version.
In the end for me, I'm underwhelmed with what has been accomplished in a year and half. I'm still not enamored to the overall sound. Because of the way it is scripted, the velocity curve is not very smooth and I can pick up noticeable jumps. There is a certain unevenness to this library that I find distracting. Also, the attack is a little hard for my taste. I probably will stay away from upgrading to the full version unless a fire sale comes along.

Your technical elaboration is very detailed as always bsntn99, but I don`t know what to do with that, I just playing piano outside my work and I don`t have too much problems with that piano but you really convince me that you can do better. In every end of your elaboration I was hope to find something or extract some better piano...but nothing. Thank you anyway. It was a hard day on job, I need to play something to relax.

Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: Gabriel Hikaru] #2896754
10/03/19 11:55 AM
10/03/19 11:55 AM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,897
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Pete14 Offline
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I’ve had Snap Crackle and Pops before, but I still prefer Cinnamon Toast Crunch.

Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: sorrownightingale] #2896764
10/03/19 12:20 PM
10/03/19 12:20 PM
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 250
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puremusic Offline
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Originally Posted by sorrownightingale
Puremusic ...I have the same here crackles and pops!!. Also, after the response from Embertone support I have completely uninstalled Embertone Walker from my SSD, so I confirm what I said previously...this piano is useless ( a toy piano).


Yup, it's totally useless for anyone with the issue. We're not the only ones with it too. Sorry to hear you bought it.


Roland FP-90 - Touchkeys - TEC BC - MIDI Expression
Kontakt - Arturia Piano V - Sonivox Eighty-Eight - Spitfire Symphony Orchestra

whitepianos.blogspot.com
Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: Gabriel Hikaru] #2896772
10/03/19 12:37 PM
10/03/19 12:37 PM
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Posts: 333
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Grazilerimba Offline
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Hi, not sure what to think about the crackles and pops. I do get them too but on my end it's clear that it's a CPU related issue. This thing uses a ton of CPU and it's one of the few piano VSTs to bring my (relatively old) computer to its knees, alongside the VSL pianos and the Bechstein Digital.
But from what I understand, you are getting some kind of pop after every single keypress? That would indeed either mean a faulty ASIO setting with a too low buffer, or playing the instrument too soon before it finished loading. You could also try messing with the sample start knob. But other than these things, the samples are clean from pops and crackles on my end, I only get them when the CPU is obviously strained.

Now, as for the velocity thing, I am not sure how to explain it because I don't have a technical understanding of it. You have to insert a plugin in your host so that it can take care of the incoming midi values of your digital piano and then change that value which then reaches the piano VST. In Reaper, this is accomplished by inserting that plugin and dragging it above the piano VST plugin in the left column of the plugin selector window. You can change the velocity range with Midi Polysher (I am not sure whether this actually scales the range or just crops it, someone please confirm this or suggest another plugin that works). Just to be clear, I think a range between 25 and 100 is too small. My suggestion was to do either 25-127 or 01-100 and see if that changes anything. From what you tell me, it sounds as if you have it configured so that you only use the lower part of the velocities. As to how to change the velocity curve, I am not sure. What tools do you use? I think I heard of Midi Shapeshifter, but I am not sure it actually does that. I know that the Cantabile plugin that came with Synthogy Ivory had a very basic curve changer, but it only allowed for three or so predefined curves.

Of course my recording sounds "flat" because I tried to play it as even as possible in order to not taint the recording. As someone else said, there are plenty of dynamic recordings of this. Look, I have my personal beef with this piano VST, but it being dynamically flat is not part of that. It's dynamically brilliant once you configure it properly, and it is free of non-CPU related crackles and pops on my end.

What did Embertone write to you that made you delete the library?

I think personally it sucks that some piano libraries are harder to configure than others. That's one of the reasons I ended up never using the Acousticsamples pianos, because I couldn't make sense of their three or so curves and dynamics related knobs. I could never make it sound and feel good so I stopped using it. Now Embertone is not as difficult to set up, but far from being intuitive like the Garritan CFX or the Ivory Pianos, in my opinion.

I also agree that this patch should not have taken more than a year. They have yet to offer a sensible explanation for why it took so long. This looks like the patch they promised a year ago when they said "it's basically done, guys". And they just waited for a full year because reasons, lol. Anyway, I'm curious to see how this develops.

Last edited by Grazilerimba; 10/03/19 12:39 PM.
Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: puremusic] #2896774
10/03/19 12:44 PM
10/03/19 12:44 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,657
Raleigh, North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline
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And Pete takes us WAAAAAY off topic. smile
Originally Posted by Pete14
I’ve had Snap Crackle and Pops before, but I still prefer Cinnamon Toast Crunch.
But what the heck. I'll join him. And I'll agree about the Cinnamon Toast Crunch. That stuff is addictive.

As for this:
Originally Posted by puremusic
Originally Posted by sorrownightingale
I have the same here crackles and pops!. ... I confirm what I said previously...this piano is useless ...
Yup, it's totally useless for anyone with the issue. We're not the only ones with it too. Sorry to hear you bought it.
I'm glad you guys gave feedback before I bought this thing. I have a bad case of GAS, and I buy too many pianos. Now I can strike this one off the list.

Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: sorrownightingale] #2896786
10/03/19 01:26 PM
10/03/19 01:26 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 617
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slobajudge Offline
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Originally Posted by sorrownightingale
Puremusic ...I have the same here crackles and pops!!. Also, after the response from Embertone support I have completely uninstalled Embertone Walker from my SSD, so I confirm what I said previously...this piano is useless ( a toy piano).

Yeah man, bury him alive, are you sure it is crackles and pops from your computer, seems to me you are very angry smile I have crackles and pops only on my laptop from 2013 but only with 2mics, with one mic no problems. With my i5 4690 desktop and 16gb ram (2015) I have no problem with 2 mics and with all options on. Anyway, solution is simple, play something else. No hard feelings.

Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: Gabriel Hikaru] #2896795
10/03/19 02:00 PM
10/03/19 02:00 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 288
The Netherlands
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pianistje Offline
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I wonder what people use as keyboard controller.
I use the wooden Kawai renderings only....
I had to play the NI Grandeur ( pretty good) in a studio for a project that needed a piano track.
They had a Kurzweil Forte and compared to my Kawai MP11SE i found it quite challenging to maintain control over the velocities.

I know the Grandeur is very playable from the Kawai VPC-1 ( played this set up several times), but seemed not that great from the Forte.
I imagine that the Walker 1955 is also very dependent on the right controller+ velocity curves.
And no matter what the specs may show, it sometimes remains a struggle to trigger a specific vst from a specific keyboard.

Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: Gabriel Hikaru] #2896816
10/03/19 02:36 PM
10/03/19 02:36 PM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 101
Tenerife-Canary Island-Spain
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sorrownightingale Offline
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Grazilerimba ...My system runs Bechstein Digital, Garritan CFX and VSL Synchron Pianos 7mics with no crackles and pops with Sonarwork Reference 4 Sound Calibration in Cantabile and Cubase Artist 10 with a buffer of 128 (Steinberg UR-44) i7 7700 3.6Ghz 32GB ram , 3 SSD ,
Windows 10 Pro optimized for audio (ThrottleStop, Core Parking Manager...). My kerboard NU1 with Ipad pro with midiflow for velocity curve...

Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: MacMacMac] #2896857
10/03/19 04:41 PM
10/03/19 04:41 PM
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 250
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puremusic Offline
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
And Pete takes us WAAAAAY off topic. smile
Originally Posted by Pete14
I’ve had Snap Crackle and Pops before, but I still prefer Cinnamon Toast Crunch.
But what the heck. I'll join him. And I'll agree about the Cinnamon Toast Crunch. That stuff is addictive.

As for this:
Originally Posted by puremusic
Originally Posted by sorrownightingale
I have the same here crackles and pops!. ... I confirm what I said previously...this piano is useless ...
Yup, it's totally useless for anyone with the issue. We're not the only ones with it too. Sorry to hear you bought it.
I'm glad you guys gave feedback before I bought this thing. I have a bad case of GAS, and I buy too many pianos. Now I can strike this one off the list.


It's hard even to turn down buying even mediocre piano libraries at times. November is almost here, there'll be more to splurge on than most folks wallets permit soon enough, it's time to save up.


Roland FP-90 - Touchkeys - TEC BC - MIDI Expression
Kontakt - Arturia Piano V - Sonivox Eighty-Eight - Spitfire Symphony Orchestra

whitepianos.blogspot.com
Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: Gabriel Hikaru] #2896863
10/03/19 05:02 PM
10/03/19 05:02 PM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 101
Tenerife-Canary Island-Spain
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sorrownightingale Offline
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Posts: 101
Tenerife-Canary Island-Spain
Grazilerimba...Embertone wrote it to me: ``The attached screenshot shows the ideal settings for the most natural dynamic response. If you want a more exaggerated sound between the softest and loudest, you might try moving the bar below volume scaling to the left!´´

https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ao4ZOLlCXwBRhIg-FsJzD367484iwQ?e=DE2Mw2

and that was the first thing I had done before writing to them!!, for this reason, this library disappeared from my SSD today

Last edited by sorrownightingale; 10/03/19 05:05 PM.
Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: sorrownightingale] #2897513
10/06/19 04:57 AM
10/06/19 04:57 AM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 41
Netherlands
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pianogabe Offline
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Originally Posted by sorrownightingale
Grazilerimba ...My system runs Bechstein Digital, Garritan CFX and VSL Synchron Pianos 7mics with no crackles and pops with Sonarwork Reference 4 Sound Calibration in Cantabile and Cubase Artist 10 with a buffer of 128 (Steinberg UR-44) i7 7700 3.6Ghz 32GB ram , 3 SSD ,
Windows 10 Pro optimized for audio (ThrottleStop, Core Parking Manager...). My kerboard NU1 with Ipad pro with midiflow for velocity curve...


I installed the Walker Steinway update, and like it very much, as do some other users here. Interestingly, on the same machine I run the Bechstein Digital, which I think is very beautiful too, and in my case that one seems to be more demanding in terms of 'computer power' than the Walker. I.e. with the Walker I hardly get any hiccups, even with setting to 36 layers and sample start to max, while the Bechstein is basically unplayable at more demanding settings on the same machine (Windows, i5, 8 Gb, buffer 128 on focusrite scarlett). I happily play the Bechstein at less demanding settings though.

Last edited by pianogabe; 10/06/19 04:58 AM. Reason: typo hiccup
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