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Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: Gabriel Hikaru] #2896331 10/02/19 03:24 AM
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Grazilerimba Offline
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I haven't spent too much time with this yet, but I gotta say, respect to Embertone for finally putting out the patch.
Half pedalling works pretty nicely, I have to say. One weird thing is that while half pedalling, it sounds to me as if the pedal noise samples can be heard pretty loudly. If you put the Half Pedaling to HQ+ it's more noticeable.
Another thing is, it looks like silent key doesn't work. Did anyone manage to get a silent note when turning the setting on?
Also there are still notes that stick out badly, most notably B4 which is like a guard standing right next to you and stabbing you with a needle every time you play it, yikes!

But hey, at least the instrument works. I'll spend more time with this soon.

Edit: It also seems as if repedaling isn't working as smoothly as half pedaling. But I'll look more into that later.
I'd love to hear your thoughts on this patch, can't wait to read your reviews of it.

Last edited by Grazilerimba; 10/02/19 03:31 AM.
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Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: Gabriel Hikaru] #2896340 10/02/19 05:14 AM
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On first view, patch is working very good, I love this piano, for me it is probably the best sounding Steinway VST ever and among top three of the best VST pianos. Half pedal is working good, most of the time I use eco mode for half pedal, but I didn`t notice any distraction noise that is not normal even with HQ plus. The same for B4 note, for me there is no notes that stick out badly, but piano has beautiful vintage and classic charm. I know that people are different in that matter and someone is more sensitive for problems than others but for me the positive things about this piano far outweigh possible problems that maybe left. I try silent note and it is working. I will play more and we will see later. Now I agree, instrument now works, and for sample piano with so much soul it is more than enough. If we were waiting for more than a year for crucial update, I am sure that we will be waiting also for some small and not so crucial update in the future. Many thanks to Embertone, very good job.

Last edited by slobajudge; 10/02/19 05:18 AM.
Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: Gabriel Hikaru] #2896350 10/02/19 06:53 AM
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So with the crucial update which would be the most recommendable version for a newbie intending to use it for playing - not yt or recording?

Thanks

Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: Gabriel Hikaru] #2896351 10/02/19 06:54 AM
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Sincerely...this piano is useless!!. Full version here, I don´t know where are the 36 layers?, I read the manual to see if I was doing something wrong,but...the Black Grand MKii is a 10 compared to this, the dynamic shines by its absence. Slobajudge compares this to Vienna Imperial, which I know you own or the new D-274 Light from VSL (30 layers). Cybergene don't even try it because the half-pedaling from Vintage D will look wonderful!!.It's a real shame after so long waiting...

Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: Gabriel Hikaru] #2896358 10/02/19 07:23 AM
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Hello! Thank you slobajudge for your reivew. I am not sure what ti make of your assessment, that B4 is clear as night and day different from the other keys. I'll try to see if I can make some recordings of it. There's a bunch of other notes that stick out to my ear as well, whether they have a different tone or whether they are slightly out of tune. I'm a bit disappointed that Embertone didn't fix more of those, that was my main reason for feeling disappointed in the original version. Silent Key doesn't work on my end. But yeah Silent Key is a small issue, who cares about it right? Just sucks that it is supposed to work but doesn't.
I agree with you otherwise, this piano has a wonderful tone to it and this update defintiely brings it up a notch and makes it more worthwhile, at least to me. Now I just need to get a beast CPU to actually run it without crackles.

@sorrownightingale, when the piano loads up, by default it only has a small amount of velocity layers enabled. You have to turn a knob in one of the tabs where you can turn it all the way up to 36 layers, which will then load the additional samples. As far as velocity layers go, this piano feels decent. At least much better than the Light and Sound Steinway (anyone remember how someone posted a velocity map and found out that some notes only have five layers? That was mad stuff lol). You have to experiment with the two graphs and change the curve, and the volume of the instrument, so that it can feel somewhat natural. I found it tedious to configure, but once you've done it one time, it gets easier for the other mics.

@Chordo, if you want to play you should definitely not get the light version as it's missing a bunch of velocity layers. Get the full version and start with the main mic. Others have posted their favorite mic combinations, I haven't experimented with that myself too much yet, but from what I can remember, you can always buy other mics later if you want more. That's probably a good way of demoing this piano without spending the full price. The additional mics are additional Kontakt instruments, so you have to load them as multis, which can be annoying because if you make one change in one single mic instrument and you want that change across all mics, then you have to make that change manually in all other mic instruments as well, which can get tedious. Too bad Embertone hasn't put all mics into one instrument with a mixer panel.

Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: Gabriel Hikaru] #2896375 10/02/19 07:47 AM
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Grazilerimba...The first one I did was turn velocities knob to 36 layers, and I tried to modify the velocity curve in panel response but this piano sounds like one of 4 layers!!,

Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: sorrownightingale] #2896378 10/02/19 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by sorrownightingale
Sincerely...this piano is useless!!. Full version here, I don´t know where are the 36 layers?, I read the manual to see if I was doing something wrong,but...the Black Grand MKii is a 10 compared to this, the dynamic shines by its absence. Slobajudge compares this to Vienna Imperial, which I know you own or the new D-274 Light from VSL (30 layers). Cybergene don't even try it because the half-pedaling from Vintage D will look wonderful!!.It's a real shame after so long waiting...

I think you are rushing with such extreme statement, I agree with advice that Grazilerimba gives to you, and most important go to response tab and make linear velocity on both dynamic and volume scaling and experiment further till you satisfied. I agree with you for VSL pianos, they are really fantastic and they have the best dynamics and playability but the price for them is huge and the vienna key is pain in the...s. On the other hand I prefer Embertone sound, it is incredible and it is playable enough to be inspired for life.

Grazilerimba, I don`t know, I try to play all B`s and there is no red alarm in my ears. For comparison, I have Light and sound Steinway C, and I like it but some of the notes just hurts and this is obvious. Here with Embertone overall I am satisfied. I play with and without silent key strikes and there is a difference. Silent key strikes here means that with light touch there is no sound similar to piano. That is working. Now there is a difference with silent key where you hold light touch without sound and playing other notes makes sympatethic resonance on key you hold. I will try that at home tonight and see if that is working. But Embertone was very clear about silent key strikes and that is working. Try with different mics maybe you will be more satisfied with B4.

Last edited by slobajudge; 10/02/19 07:58 AM.
Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: Gabriel Hikaru] #2896386 10/02/19 08:13 AM
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Sorrownightingale, I forgot to mention that first time I play Embertone I have similar thoughts about dynamics but no so dramatic. After I set linear velocity on both dynamic and volume scaling I was also turning on Dyn on Sweetening tab and that was better. After some time I turn it off and now I don`t need it any more. I hope you will found a way to sound you are looking for. Good luck !

Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: Gabriel Hikaru] #2896388 10/02/19 08:16 AM
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Could you record what you are hearing sorrownightingale, and post, so we can hear what went wrong?

Grazilerimba, could you also do a recording, not only with the loud notes, but also with it performing 36 layers normally as you think?

It would be good to be able to compare what the two of you are listening to so we can have a baseline of one or the other.


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Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: Gabriel Hikaru] #2896421 10/02/19 10:15 AM
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Hi,
here is a quick recording.

https://vocaroo.com/i/s1ZUjOecxKDw

It's kind of subjective although I can really hear it while playing. It's a bit louder and it has a slightly different tone, and together these two things make it stand out a lot because the note sounds harsher than the others.

As for silent key strike, it doesn't work on my end. I press the key down very softly, and I basically wait until it is just about to touch the bottom and then gently push it down without much force. Still hear a quiet note. Weird. I'm using the main mic patch.

PS Do you have any suggestions to reduce CPU usage? Even a single mic can give me crackles when I play for a while.

Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: Gabriel Hikaru] #2896422 10/02/19 10:19 AM
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CyberGene Online Content
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Vocaroo is for voice recordings, it's mono and has awful compression. That demo has been crippled too much frown Please, use another service: Dropbox for instance.


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Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: Gabriel Hikaru] #2896444 10/02/19 11:31 AM
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https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ao4ZOLlCXwBRhIg9BIm0GeBBiVZmcw?e=PyZ4TO

Embertone Walker 1955 Concert D Binaural 1.1 Kontakt Memory 2.72GB setting:

Perfomance-Mode Normal, velocities 36, Una corda ON
Color-Tone ON, Dyn ON
Response-Dynamic Scaling Lineal, Volume Scaling Lineal

Playing Real Time!!



Last edited by sorrownightingale; 10/02/19 11:32 AM.
Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: Gabriel Hikaru] #2896449 10/02/19 11:46 AM
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@Cybergene you are right, sorry about that.
https://www.mediafire.com/file/6vrdyljr8rljasv/b4.wav/file

@sorrownightingale: I think I know what you mean. That sounds to me like an insufficiently configured velocity response. What I would say, as slobajudge also suggested, is to flatten both curves. Then, I would try to use an external tool to change the velocity response, or try to change the key sensitivity on your keyboard. Alternatively you can of course try to use the internal two curves, but they can be tricky to configure. I personally find the piano to be super quiet. Have to turn up my volume to almost 100% to make it sound normal. You could try raising your volume, or the volume of the instrument within Kontakt, and then base your velocity mapping decisions on that loudness.

Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: Gabriel Hikaru] #2896451 10/02/19 11:57 AM
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Grazilerimba...both curves were flatten...There is no dynamic feeling when you are playing and don't feel anywhere 36 layers

Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: Gabriel Hikaru] #2896452 10/02/19 12:00 PM
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Yes, and I think that's because your velocity response is too flat. Try changing the start and end point values of the lines. Someone else can explain it much better but what I mean is, try to configure it so that your highest velocity is not 127, but, say, 100 or so. Or try putting the lowest velocity not at 1, but at perhaps 25. See if that changes anything, and then take it from there.

Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: sorrownightingale] #2896453 10/02/19 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by sorrownightingale
Grazilerimba...both curves were flatten...There is no dynamic feeling when you are playing and don't feel anywhere 36 layers


I don't use the Embertone myself, but could I suggest you to post some images of your setting? Also, which keyboard do you use and which sensitivity setting?
There are several videos on the net where you can clearly hear this piano sounds well and dynamic seems ok, so there could be something wrong in your setting.
Good luck

Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: Gabriel Hikaru] #2896475 10/02/19 01:21 PM
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Updated here....
Like it very much,... but allready did. Has better playabilty and the pedal behaviour is good enough now...
Contrary to many other users i don’t use multiple mics or binaural .
The only mics i use are the hammer mics + a bit of Liquid Sonic Illusions reverb.

Sure, sure there are many piano vst’s for the classical purists that will give you that ‘classical stage’ appearence, based on a big modern concert grand sound.
But i never heard a similar piano sound in a vst that the hammer mics of the Embertone provides.
That warm , close/intimite , wooden and above all characterfull sound found in Billy Joël intro’s and many others.
It’s impossible to even remotely ‘get there’ with my Garritan CFX and the countless piano vst’s i’ve purchased over the last five years.

Can’t say it enough, Embertone did something really unique for my taste.

Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: Grazilerimba] #2896481 10/02/19 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Grazilerimba
I haven't spent too much time with this yet, but I gotta say, respect to Embertone for finally putting out the patch.
Half pedalling works pretty nicely, I have to say. One weird thing is that while half pedalling, it sounds to me as if the pedal noise samples can be heard pretty loudly. If you put the Half Pedaling to HQ+ it's more noticeable.
Another thing is, it looks like silent key doesn't work. Did anyone manage to get a silent note when turning the setting on?
Also there are still notes that stick out badly, most notably B4 which is like a guard standing right next to you and stabbing you with a needle every time you play it, yikes!

But hey, at least the instrument works. I'll spend more time with this soon.

Edit: It also seems as if repedaling isn't working as smoothly as half pedaling. But I'll look more into that later.
I'd love to hear your thoughts on this patch, can't wait to read your reviews of it.

I agree the B4 has an iron piercing sound most noticably when the sustain pedal is pressed and i at least play forte. At values below forte it sounds good.

Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: Gabriel Hikaru] #2896486 10/02/19 01:58 PM
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Stamkorg...my keyboard is a Yamaha NU1 with midiflow ipad app for velocity curve. I tried linear velocity curve and my custom velocity curve for Garritan CFX and VSL Synchron Pianos with the same result.
Grazilerimba ..your recording (mediafire file) shows the same, the dynamics does not exist.
Because of my experience with VST if it is necessary to make a concave velocity midi curve the piano is simply not well sampled, that is, this does not behave like a real piano!!

Re: Embertone Walker 1955 Steinway D [Re: Gabriel Hikaru] #2896561 10/02/19 07:04 PM
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I was hoping the update would fix the static sound bug I get with this instrument that makes it unplayable, but nope, still unplayable. At least I only sprung for the lite version.


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