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Re: Ugh.... [Re: ebonykawai] #2896170
10/01/19 12:56 PM
10/01/19 12:56 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 25,959
New York City
pianoloverus Online content
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Originally Posted by ebonykawai
No, it's also called 'finger pedalling', my teacher and others call is finger legato. It's used a lot in Baroque, but Chopin, Schubert and other romantic composers also use it. It's used quite a lot in fugues.
The correct term is "finger pedaling" but not "finger legato".

The most common place to use it would be in an Alberti bass figuration typical in Mozart. It's always optional unless marked in the score which is very rare for any composer.

It's probably quite rare in Chopin. I started a recent thread about it and so far found only two examples where Chopin specifically indicates it. I believe it's also very rare in Schubert and never heard it mentioned when discussing his works.

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Re: Ugh.... [Re: pianoloverus] #2896171
10/01/19 12:58 PM
10/01/19 12:58 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,114
Niagara Falls NY
ebonykawai Online content OP
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ebonykawai  Online Content OP
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Niagara Falls NY
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by ebonykawai
No, it's also called 'finger pedalling', my teacher and others call is finger legato. It's used a lot in Baroque, but Chopin, Schubert and other romantic composers also use it. It's used quite a lot in fugues.
The correct term is "finger pedaling" but not "finger legato".

The most common place to use it would be in an Alberti bass figuration typical in Mozart. It's always optional unless marked in the score which is very rare for any composer.

It's probably quite rare in Chopin. I started a recent thread about it and so far found only two examples where Chopin specifically indicates it. I believe it's also very rare in Schubert and never heard it mentioned when discussing his works.


We're probably talking about different things. It's what my teacher calls is so that's what I call it. It's not rare in Chopin, I just played a piece that required this, and I'm done arguing with you.


Lisa

Currently working on RCM 7 repertoire
Kawai UST-9, Yamaha CLP565GP, Kawai KDP110

"Sometimes I can only groan, and suffer, and pour out my despair at the piano!" - Frederic Chopin
Re: Ugh.... [Re: ebonykawai] #2896174
10/01/19 01:03 PM
10/01/19 01:03 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 25,959
New York City
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pianoloverus  Online Content
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Originally Posted by ebonykawai
The awkwardness for me is the spread between fingers 2 and 4 while also using 1 on the Eb, and still holding down Eb 5. If the 1 finger is omitted, it's fine, but having the bring my thumb in close to to hit Eb and 2 on Db, gives me a shorter spread to hit the G with 4, all the while holding down Eb with 5. I have no problms with octaves, I can play a 9th comfortably, this is just an awkward position for me. I just have to get used to it.
If you tilt your hand slightly to the left while playing that passage you will probably find it much easier. If you try to play it with your palm parallel to the keyboard the stretch is much more uncomfortable.

Re: Ugh.... [Re: ebonykawai] #2896176
10/01/19 01:17 PM
10/01/19 01:17 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 25,959
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Originally Posted by ebonykawai
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by ebonykawai
No, it's also called 'finger pedalling', my teacher and others call is finger legato. It's used a lot in Baroque, but Chopin, Schubert and other romantic composers also use it. It's used quite a lot in fugues.
The correct term is "finger pedaling" but not "finger legato".

The most common place to use it would be in an Alberti bass figuration typical in Mozart. It's always optional unless marked in the score which is very rare for any composer.

It's probably quite rare in Chopin. I started a recent thread about it and so far found only two examples where Chopin specifically indicates it. I believe it's also very rare in Schubert and never heard it mentioned when discussing his works.


We're probably talking about different things. It's what my teacher calls is so that's what I call it. It's not rare in Chopin, I just played a piece that required this, and I'm done arguing with you.
You are confusing two things.

Finger pedaling refers to holding a note longer than it's marked to add to the harmonic richness and sustain without using the right pedal. One can, for example, hold the lowest note in an Alberti bass figuration and avoid what some would consider a much too blurred effect if one used the damper pedal.

Finger legato refers to the (incredibly common in all types of music including Chopin) use of fingers to connect notes in a phrase, i.e. as distinguished from playing staccato or portamento.

Re: Ugh.... [Re: ebonykawai] #2896192
10/01/19 02:44 PM
10/01/19 02:44 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 23,073
Victoria, BC
BruceD Offline
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Originally Posted by ebonykawai
The awkwardness for me is the spread between fingers 2 and 4 while also using 1 on the Eb, and still holding down Eb 5. If the 1 finger is omitted, it's fine, but having the bring my thumb in close to to hit Eb and 2 on Db, gives me a shorter spread to hit the G with 4, all the while holding down Eb with 5. I have no problms with octaves, I can play a 9th comfortably, this is just an awkward position for me. I just have to get used to it.


Lisa:

Have you tried playing both the E-flat and D-flat with the thumb? Would that help?

Regards,


BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
Re: Ugh.... [Re: ebonykawai] #2896194
10/01/19 02:47 PM
10/01/19 02:47 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 392
USA
A
Andamento Offline
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Andamento  Offline
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A

Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 392
USA
Originally Posted by ebonykawai
The awkwardness for me is the spread between fingers 2 and 4 while also using 1 on the Eb, and still holding down Eb 5. If the 1 finger is omitted, it's fine, but having the bring my thumb in close to to hit Eb and 2 on Db, gives me a shorter spread to hit the G with 4, all the while holding down Eb with 5. I have no problms with octaves, I can play a 9th comfortably, this is just an awkward position for me. I just have to get used to it.


If it works for your hand size, consider playing both of the top two notes with the thumb across the black keys, instead of with 1 and 2. Then your 2 can rest naturally in a place that isn't so far away from the 4.

Incidentally, I personally like the feel of playing the G with 3 instead of 4 in this construct. That might reduce some tension in your LH, as well. 3 is a stronger finger than 4, so holding onto the 5 throughout the measure and playing beats two and three with fingers 3 and 1 versus 4 and 1 feels more stable to me. But then that might just be what feels best to my hand.

Re: Ugh.... [Re: ebonykawai] #2896195
10/01/19 02:48 PM
10/01/19 02:48 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 392
USA
A
Andamento Offline
Full Member
Andamento  Offline
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A

Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 392
USA
Ah, BruceD beat me to it. smile

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